| Author | Message | ||
     Gregtonn |
"Nobody involved in the TT or Manx GP would ever want to make any money out of a single death." I sincerely doubt that. There are always greed heads lurking about in most any organization. A boldly arrogant statement for someone who claims to have known so little of the TT history until lately. G | ||
| Rlgiv |
I doubt that anybody who races in the TT does so because it is on TV. Most of those people are there for the thrill of the ride and prestige of THEIR peers. I would never try it but more power to them. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
They had a group interview of some American road racers that took part in the TT this year. They acknowledged that it took a different kind of racer to win a TT. I guess that's why only a handful of riders are really in contention to win. One of the leaders passed an American rider like he was standing still in one of the races. I believe 100% that the riders would do it with or without without TV coverage. | ||
| Blake |
I'm happy that folks disagree with me. I could do without the personal attacks dear Greg. Boldly arrogant? Well, that's me in a nutshell.  But then I think it's arrogant for the Isle of Man to be promoting their death race. So what do I know.
That is straight from the horse's mouth. Why oh why do you imagine they have assembled a "wide ranging strategy...to raise the number of visitors to the Isle of Man TT"? Anyone? Look for my letter above on www.RoadRacingWorld.com along with another decrying Road Racing World's lack of coverage of the TT. It should make for some interesting and lively debate there. Be sure to check it out. | ||
| Blake |
Road Racing World Letters | ||
| Gaesati |
Blake, I ride a Buell Firebolt. The last in a line of sport bikes and race reps stretching back 38 years. I rode hard then and I still do. Sports bike riders die at a disproportionate rate compared to other motorcyclists and at a far higher rate than other road users. Buell actively advertises its sports bikes as enabling one to "own the corners". Some riders of Buells will perish as a result of putting their lives at stake on mountain roads and street racing. That is how young men are. Is Buell promoting young men's risk taking behaviour and profiting from their death? Motorcycles, sport bikes in particular, are dangerous and deadly. If we, as riderss, choose to use the opportunity and means Buell offers us to put our lives at risk how are we different to the competitors at the IOM who choose to run hard in those circumstances? | ||
| Rlgiv |
IF they are going to close their streets so people can race motorcycles on them they should at least try to make money from the event so they can continue to hold it. | ||
| Davegess |
If they don't make any money then they can't afford to hold the event. a chunk of the money goes to improve safety. Without promotion and money the event simply dies. The residents of the Isle of Man seem to think it is a good idea for it to continue. If you don't like it then ignore it. I don't like the folks giving organized and promoted tours to Mt Everest but if folks are willing to spend the money it is their skin. Buell Motorcycles poromotes stunting for profit. Stunting, outside of very controlled area is very dangerous. We need to boycott Buell for making money off ok squids getting crippled. I thike we all need to go here www.dukevideo.com and buy a video to support the TT | ||
| Blake |
It's quite a leap from selling motorcycles to promoting a race that has killed over 70 people in the past 20 years. Earning a return on a death race so they can put on more death races? How about letting he competitors fund their race like they must have done at some point in the event's history? And they are doing more than just trying o earn a fair return; they are looking for quite a bit more it seems to me. | ||
| Davegess |
How many deaths is acceptable? I don't think we should support any hand gun makers as thousands die as a result of them being advertised and sold for a profit. We should condemn the military as they glorify service so they can entice vulnerable youth to a career of kill and be killed. Come on Blake get real. | ||
| 46champ |
I think Blake might be a little upset that he and his website was used to solicit contributions to allow someone to attempt to race a Buell on the Isle of Mann a couple of years ago. At that time he probably didn't know the accident rate and felt he'd been used. I might be wrong if so just ignore me. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Reductio ad absurdum www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum | ||
| Davegess |
BTW, I am done tlaking about this. We can agree to disagree and move on as far as I am concerned. | ||
| Blake |
Dave, Your analogies are invalid. To equate to the tragedies at the Isle of Man, a gun manufacturer would need to promote attendance to and gain television sponsorship for a shooting competition in which people end up dead. That isn't happening. Is it? I'm not asking for motorcycles to be boycotted. Am I? | ||
| Blake |
Dave, I'm okay with disagreeing. And I appreciate your thoughtful debate. I also like to have the last word.  I would ask the following question: What would happen to motorcycle racing at Daytona if it had even half the record of fatalities as the Isle of Man? I think we both know the answer to that; it would be shunned by sponsors and promoters until it was made less dangerous. The racers, if they wanted to race there would need to fund it themselves. Isn't that what used to take place at the IOM? And when it did, what was the participation? I'd say that if in the past three decades, there's been a significant increase in applications to race at the IOM, then I think we can agree that the commercialization and promotion of the event has indeed attracted some of the participants. How about we end on a positive note and agree to work together to make the IOM motorcycle races less dangerous? I'm all for liberty and freedom, I'm not for the freedom to profit from what amounts to daredevil racing. Looks like I'm alone in that. | ||
| Blake |
We should condemn the military as they glorify service so they can entice vulnerable youth to a career of kill and be killed. If that is what they are doing, then yes. Care to compare the annual per capita fatality rate of our military to that of the IOM? I'll use estimates off the top of my head, but I think they are reasonable. If you disagree, tell me what you think is reasonable and we'll rework the numbers. With ~5,000 fatalities due to combat since 1990 and about 10 million people serving in that period, that comes to 50 per 100,000. The fatality rate at the IOM is far greater. | ||
| Davegess |
The IoM has not been funded by the racers themselves for decades if ever. The races have been paid for by the government of since the beginning. It is called the tourist trophy because it encouraged tourist in the off season. It was very important to the island economy up to the fifties when finance started to take off as UK taxes rose. It has minor effects now, it is more important as a showcase. AS far as what would happen at Daytona, that is irrelevant; the IoM operates to a different standard. It was not that long ago where the criminal justice system caned guilty people. You assume the IoM people, with perhaps the world's oldest democracy, are doing it for profit. Having meet many they do because they love it and it is part of the national identity. They do need to make money off it, it costs a ton of money to put on. You don't shut down the main roads of the two largest cities for free. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Blake, Perhaps you should apply for a position in the Obama administration in the area of (motorcycle) health care legislation. Your expertise in acceptable death statistics might be of use to them. With your help maybe they would eliminate all racing deaths by eliminating the sport completely. Feel free to carry on with the nonsense. It is, if nothing else, entertaining. G | ||
| Blake |
>>>Feel free to carry on with the nonsense You have that covered all on your own. I'm a licensed motorcycle racer. | ||
| Court |
Who the heck is forcing these poor hapless victims to enter? I suspect the same group forcing these folks . . . be mindful that a single mountain has claimed 5% of the people who have ever attempted to climb it.
Choices and consequences. We live in a country that celebrates the freedom to choose both. | ||
| Blake |
A'men to that. Again, I protest only the exploitation of the racing for commercial gain, while fully supporting the freedom of the participants to do as they wish. | ||
| Gregtonn |
...fully supporting the freedom of the participants to do as they wish. On that we are in total agreement. G | ||
| Trojan |
I don't know how it works in the USA, but in this country when you buy a ticket to a motor or motorcycle race, or enter as a competitor, there is a large statement printed on the back of the ticket/entry form that says 'Motor Racing is Dangerous'. If you don't like it, don't do it. Your argument that the IOM deliberately makes profit from deaths is ridiculous. Did Suzuka deliberately profit when Kato was killed? Or Monza when Pasolini & Saarinen were tragically lost? I'm sure ticket sales for Daytona increased as a result of the publicity following Barry Sheene's huge accident there in the early 1970's as well, so should we boycott that too? Injury and sometimes death are part of the risks involved in powered motor sport, so you either have to accept the risk or just don't do it. If the IOM were to sell videos of fatal accidents for profit then your argument may have some validity, but they don't so your argument holds no water. You also concentrate solely on the TT, whilst ignoring all other 'Real Roads' racing in Ireland, IOM and in other European venues + Macau of course. I'm sure if you look at the accident statistics in those places you'll manage to come to the conclusion that they are also making profit from 'carnage', which of course they don't. Real road racing is run for the benefit of enthusiasts and a particular type of motorcycle racer. They know the risks very well but continue to do it because they enjoy it and are good at it. Guy Martin, Ryan Farquhar, John McGuinness, Steve Plater, Bruce Anstey and the whole Dunlop family (plus many thousands of others) who risk their lives every year for little reward on the Island would certainly take serious issue with your argument that's for sure. If you were to ask the families of racers tragically killed during the TT you would find that your argument would be laughed at by the vast majority. Some of the families such as that of David Jefferies' even continue to support and sponsor riders in the TT every year. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
in every motor race the risk factor is bigger respect other sports this is sure. when the risk factor became the morbid major feeling of this or that race ....well i think there is something wrong. there was an important road race in Italy a long time ago as people realized it was turning out to be very dangerous for racers and spectators it was closed....i think it was the right decision and there is not a lot to speak about. 70 dead persons in 20 years....my personal opinion it is not crazy is stupid , and honestly with all the circuits(safety) and races around Ireland England Europe and all over the world i cannot see anything else than publicity and money for somebody and some morbid stuff for somebody else. "I do this because i like it no matters if it costs lives..." is a dangerous theory. Alessio | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Real road racing is run for the benefit of enthusiasts and a particular type of motorcycle racer. They know the risks very well but continue to do it because they enjoy it and are good at it. I'll go further and bet that if the IOM TT was "sanitized" for safety (which is actually impossible- because it's held on public roads) the racers would no longer be interested is competing- it would become just another "race track". Real Road Racing competitors and supporters are a different breed- rather like the difference between general aviation and aerobatics. They are aware of the increased risk, aspire to a level of performance higher than all other forms of motor sport, and only have other real road race competitors and venues to test themselves against. In my view, following Blake's line of reasoning to it's logical conclusion would bring an end to real road racing. In my opinion, that should be a decision made by the racers- not outsiders. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
"..the difference between general aviation and aerobatics" when i got my CAP-10 fly-license after many hours of flying aerobatics and touristic the first thing i noted it was how more dangerous is the touristic fly often practiced by mediocre and un-expert pilots and statistics supports what i'm speaking about. in aerobatics first thing you learn is SAFETY and to have everything under control ALWAYS..On the other side i have seen with my eyes touristic licensed pilots ,who never tested personally even a normal spiral(don't know the english translation...you know what i mean), crashing before taking off. i repeat the risk factor in motor racing is bigger than other sports and it has his fashion but IT must be part of this sport not the opposite.i like this sport because of the speed , the corner speed , the hard braking , the feel of the power under my butt, because i like engines and the smell of gasoline , the noise...the risk itself makes nothing to me , if i accept the risk is to feel something else there are many ways to race a bike is not necessary kill people so often to do it....this is MAYBE why the majority of top superbike and GP racers ignores some races. if an old road course is not able to compete with actual race bikes power and speed and is not possible to upgrade it in safety just close it .is the normal right thing to do ....if it is the Blake line of reasoning..all i can say about is "good for him ". | ||
| Gregtonn |
Blake, After reading some of the very articulate letters posted here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=37856 Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 02:37 am, I am convinced that your ego has painted you into a corner on this issue. Logic and common sense obviously cannot prevail in such a situation and I will therefor withdraw from this discussion. G | ||
| Blake |
That sure is a queer way of viewing someone's opinion on an issue. For me the logic is crystal clear. Others have different views. Others prefer personal attack. Like you Greg. You'd rather speak to my ego. LOL. I'd rather discus the issue. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
far from me the idea to be the official or un-official Blake defender , but i can't see this kind of Opera and most of all when i see people offending other people i think it is because they are not able to escape from the wrong side in other ways, i'm referring to the road racing article "there is REAL WORLD... REAL PEOPLE" The best is "WARM HEARTS AND CARING SOULS" who is watching too much TV ?...and i want to pass over the "freedom" debate . it looks to me that if you go at 300 km/h near a wall you are a real racer if you do it in a modern safe circuit you are not. somebody please wants to explain me why ? and why in all the rest of the so called "first world" un-safe road courses and circuits needs to be modified or canceled for some kind of races when they cannot guarantee a certain level of security ? i think is better one race less and 70 20 maybe only one racer more but still alive and able to race more in his life. again looking at the moto gp and wsbk so in needs of real fast racers why the Dorna and Mr.Flammini ...too cynic better i shout up. personally i have nothing against road races but when the un-safety costs so much i think you have better chances to defend corridas than that race. | ||
| Doerman |
I don't know what to think about IoM, if it is exploiting anybody or not. Facts are facts, and that is a lot of racers die. Whether the IoM authorities conveniently ignore that fact in favor of revenues is something I can not comment on. In the same vein, there's Nurbergring. This track is essentially a public road where you have to adhere to the German road rules. The exception are that there is no speed limit, even if the track is not constructed to autobahn standards for safety and the traffic flows in one direction only. It is operated as a toll road, where you pay for each lap. The track allows mixed traffic (cars and motorcycles). Any Joe Public can show up, pay the $20 per lap and have fun. The mix of combining cars and motorcycles, lots of testosterone and a great variety of operator skill level is a bad brew that takes about 10 motorcycle rider lives in an average year. By the way, they only count those that die on the track. If the rider dies in the ambulance or in the hospital, it is not an official Nurbergring casualty. The local town and the track itself makes good money on this adventure. I think the arguments that Blake puts forwards applies. The operators could: - Operate separate sessions for cars and bikes. - Further separate the sessions in groups for novice and experienced. Those two items would most likely drastically lower the death rate at Nurbergring. Why don't they? |
