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     Blake |
I had no idea. Seventy-nine dead just since 1990. What a honest to God bloody nightmare! The Isle of Man Department of Tourism and Leisure should be ashamed of themselves. The world's racing sanctioning bodies had the good sense to drop the venue back in the '80s. But apparently some of the greed-heads couldn't let it go. It's disgusting that people see fit to profit from such a bloody mess. I had no idea. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Huh? I think the annual average is 2+ fatalities each time the race is run. It's a ROAD race - on ROADS... with speeds to REV LIMIT for MILES... and rock walls, fences, trees... look at the video images on Youtube. It has ALWAYS been frightening at best. (Message edited by slaughter on August 01, 2009) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Milky Quayle Rossi and Ago | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
...and "Running Off" means leaning the bike against the side of a building and running into the pub ON FOOT. You don't RUN OFF the course on a racebike. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Rossi when interviewed (above link) was asked whether he thought that the IOM TT being off the GP circuit was a good idea and he IMMEDIATELY said "YES!" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Redbuelljunkie |
You really weren't aware of this Blake? True road racing (IOM TT style) is over 100 years old and is what separates the men from the boys in the world of motorcycle racing. You would seriously support the banning of real road racing? No one forces these riders to do it, and I think it's incredulous that you believe that people want to see or profit from riders crashing- that's outrageous. True road racing is the most dangerous, most skill-intensive, and most respected form of competition on two wheels. It is not to be taken lightly by competitor or spectator, and deserves the utmost respect. If someone does not have the countenance for this type of racing- don't watch. I have more respect for real road racers than any other form of motosport. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Do some youtube searching for "Irish Road Racing" also. Search for "Macau GP" The Macau will give you a peek at what Higbee and Schwantz faced as the ONLY US riders to EVER be on the Macau podium. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
On-Board w/James McBride at Macau Not saying road racing shouldn't be as safe as it possible to make it but some circuits are just KNOWN to be bad from a rider safety perspective. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Steve, Look up the stats, since 1990, 79 deaths on that motorcycle course. That includes their Manx GP and also officials and spectators involved too. Actual riders was 72 I think, if I recall accurately. Is two per year okay??? RBJ, No, I had no idea of the scale of the carnage. I said nothing about banning. I'm a libertarian for the most part. I just think it's disgusting for a town to subsist on the blood of others, especially if they don't share the wealth as Matt (Trojan) indicated. The purse for that race should be HUGE! Every qualifying competitor should be paid extremely well. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
The TT is hugely dangerous but no one make you do it. why should the government say you can't do it? As they say in the IOM, the throttle twists both ways. No one makes you race there and no one makes you push the limit. It is less dangerous than climbing Mt. Everest. One thing that has to be added is that one TT equals about 6 years of running the Daytona 200. It is still very dangerous but I think the the sheer volume of racing mitigates it a bit. As far as making money; at one point this was the most important economic event in the IOM but these days when international finance and on line gambling have become huge business there it is not nearly as important as it once was and continues for a large part because it define who you are as a Manxman. BTW, it is the best and most dangerous place to watch a race i have ever been at. The IOM's thinking about public safety involves a huge amount of "it is you choice" No lawsuits there because the coffee was too hot. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Ever read about technical climbing? Underwater cave diving? Both have HUGE mortality rates. Jeff Bozanic (personal friend - look him up on google) - teaches technical diving and is a consultant for National Geographic, Discovery Channel and others. Uses a yellow wetsuit - says that's so the body recovery will be easier than the typical black. They all pick their poison. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Fast1075 |
I have found that risk is a huge part of motivation....only a true adrenaline junkie can understand... When somebody brings up road course racing, the IOM is the first thing to come to mind...for me it's images of Hailwood on the Honda wearing those goggles and the pudding bowl helmet...on those narrow little tires...at 17,000 rpm. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Blake, as I mentioned above it is not a Huge moneymaker for the country and the purse is huge compared to what the Irish kids get for racing on far more dangerous places than the TT. Check out some of the Irish road racing videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ3vugZR2-8&feature =related All those nice green hedges hide stone walls The financial picture is muddy at this point. the TT group has spend the last couple of years trying to upgrade the event , It haas been slowly dieing for the last twenty, with smaller crowds crowds and poor quality fields. They are trying to raise more money from the event so that they can pay better and improve safety. The place cannot ever be made as safe as a modern race track but that is part of the appeal to riders. This is a very good account of why they do it. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Jun/323232.htm There is a mistaken impression that many folks are getting rich off the TT. This is simply no true. for the folks in the tourist trade it is like christmas, the only two weeks of the year were they actually make any money. Sure the room rates go up as do the ferry rates but they are not outrageous compared to other hot tourist spots in the UK. The entire event is paid for the the IOM government and may generate enough additional income from visitors to cover the cost by having been there and observed from a pretty good vantage point, I had press credentials and met some interesting folks, I would say it is a pretty marginal event. There is no admission charge, no ticket to sell, so the only income is what the bikers spend while there and there are only about 60,000 of them so that is not all that much. Do not EVER accuse these folks of profiting from death and mayhem. A very large number of the organizers used to race here. A good precent of the racers are residents. Is is a rare person on the Isle of Man who has not know someone who has died on the course. These people love motorcycles and racing and accept a very high level of risk and personal responsibility. Not many places with no speed limits on the roads are there. As far as deaths at the TT most years more visitors die from riding drunk or just plain stupid than do racing. As long as you don't take an innocent with you they really don't care much. Hurt someone else and they whack you pretty hard and fast. Not much stalling in the legal system over there. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Government shouldn't say they cannot race, but government shouldn't be benefitting from it either. They are. The town is, hugely. Rich isn't the issue. A bunch of folks are benefitting from the carnage of others. It's shameful. I hope you are right about the compensation being good for the competitors. Matt seemed to think otherwise. The Irish have always been crazy, what do you expect. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Liquorwhere |
Blake, Check out the stats for the Northwest 200 or the Ulster, a year or so ago Michael Dunlop's father Robert, Brother of 26 time IOM winner Joey Dunlop, was killed at the Northwest. Those races are some of the best on Earth, with the Isle being the pinnacle of racing, watch the HD discovery coverage, listen to Michael Dunlop, or John McGuiness, or Anstey or Guy Martin (especially his versions of tea steeping) or any of those competing...they truly live it. Truly. I don't think there is a better race in motor sports than the Irish road races, check out the MCUI(motorcycle union of Ireland) and you will see they do everything they can to make it as safe as possible, but it is run on public roads as is the Northwest and the Ulster and many others....it is the best stuff going. This is completely different than the safety on track at a superbike or MotoGP race, these guys go in knowing there is a curb or a wall that could become up close and personal during their race.... http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/ Article/20080641316264 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
The Isle of Man does not really make a lot of money from this event. the entire tourist trade is very marginal and I certainly did not meet anyone who was making a ton of money off the TT. Most are able to remain open only because they have such good business for two weeks a year. The TT is run because the Manx people are committed to it. I have serious doubts that anyone one is making a lot of money off it. The government is certainly NOT making money off the event. It is heavily subsidized by the Isle of Man government. I don't see where anyone is making a lot of money off it certainly less than the merchants in Daytona make and they kill people there every year. The taverns make a ton selling drinks to bikers. And yes us irish can be bit nuts, all Celts, including the Manx, can be that way. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Are you trying to convince me that 30,000+ tourists and racing fans and teams don't bring tens of millions of dollars to the island? That event is a MAJOR boon to the local economy. Do the math. $30M/75K residents is pretty significant. People need to lodge, eat, be merry, and they like to purchase stuff and that all costs good coinage. I cannot imagine the average expenditure being less than $1K per person for the duration of the event.
"The government is certainly NOT making money off the event. It is heavily subsidized by the Isle of Man government." You've heard of sales taxes, yes? Come on Dave. Merchants in Daytona are killing people? Huh? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 46champ |
I looked at the list under the expectation that most of the deaths were in the faster races like the Senior TT, but that is not the case. Most are in Practice do they run practice different than the races or are their just a lot more laps in practice? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
30m in a GDP of over 2B is less than 2%. I am sure you can find a number somewhere of what the government pays to put the event on. I am certain that it will be more than the direct financial impact of the races. I say this because if it was a strictly dollars thing the justification for subsidizing the thing would not include so much verbiage about "raising the international profile" "encouraging investment" etc. I am pretty sure the event loses money, the taxpayer puts out more than the tourists shell out while there. the TT is run largely because it helps define the Manx character as tough independent people who are very different the the English and other Europeans who want to tell them what to do. The race is not about money. The Manx GP is even less about money as there are almost no spectators for that. You are sadly mistake if you think this event has survived this long because of money. Very few of the competitors race here for the money. They can make more than at any Irish RR but they will not get rich. Some do it as a springboard to a ride in a race series that will actually make them rich but race for the challenge. Most have been racing on the roads for years and have real jobs to support themselves. Yes it is a very deadly place but the world will be poorer place if people stop racing there. Much like it would be a poorer place if people stop climbing mountains. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
I must say that this IOM talk has me dreaming about a trip. Last year when I had the chance to speak to some of the local folks by phone, their enthusiasm was infectious. I went and investigated some of those Technical Climbing and Cave Diving sites . . I'm sticking with my bike. Man that is some wild stuff. Interesting how many of the participants are female. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
The death toll is just shocking to me Dave, 79 dead since 1990. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
It is a very dangerous place and thy run endless lap. Race weeks consists of 6-7 races the shortest being 120 miles for the chairs. Total racing distance for the week is over 1000 miles and there are 60 to 80 riders in each race. The racing alone is like 5 Daytona 200s in a week. Until recently, when practice was cut way back practice week and the practices on non racing days during raceweek would be about double the number of racing laps. There are over 400 total entries for the week but many of these are the same rider in multiple classes. What makes it so dangerous is the very high speeds and no room for mistakes. The NW 200 course is faster but is much straighter with fewer slower corners. Everyone involved knows how dangerous it is. No one is running because they have to. Just like climbing Everest, no one is made to do it yet even with a death rate pushing 25% people try each year. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
I see your point Dave, but no one is standing atop Everest every year promoting the event, televising it, inviting folks to climb and garnering advertising and commercial revenue from it. I'd not object if there was little to no public promotion of the event and it was just a collection of daredevils getting together to do what they do. But the promoters and fans hype the event and hold up the competitors as heroes. That type of promotion and hype can easily seduce young men into risking their lives. It ain't right. "Everyone involved knows how dangerous it is." Really? Do they ever really think that the most awful will happen to them? I remember being young and indestructible, don't you? Those stats are interesting, but they don't do much to assuage the horrific truth, 76 dead since 1990 as a direct result of the IOM motorcycle races. Race weeks consists of 6-7 races the shortest being 120 miles for the chairs. Total racing distance for the week is over 1000 miles and there are 60 to 80 riders in each race. The racing alone is like 5 Daytona 200s in a week." But during Daytona Bike week there are a whole slew of races (CCS, ASRA, AHMRA, AMA Dirt Track, Motocross, and Road Racing) going on, the total man-mileage and number of racers very likely far exceeds that of the TT. I cannot recall the last time anyone died due to a racing incident during Daytona bike week. I know they have, but I cannot recall it. Certainly if dozens had died since 1990, we'd be horrified. "There are over 400 total entries for the week but many of these are the same riders in multiple classes." You are an honest man, volunteering that full disclosure of information confirms it. We've had over 500 entries for a weekend (two days) of CMRA racing at Oak Hill Raceway. Total number of actual racers is on the order of 100 or so. The CMRA races there three times a year. The following is sobering. I just cannot continue to be enthused about a racing venue/events with such a horrendous record of death. I'd feel like I was helping to hype and promote it. Heck I was hyping and promoting it just a year or two ago, which is probably one reason I'm taking the revelation of the carnage so hard. I had no idea. Any promotion or report on the IOM Moto Racing events should include the following:
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| Buell2001b |
I think the TT should not be banned. People are free to do as they please. if 2 people are killed per race is at their will and oviusly riding to fast beyond their skill or what the bike can take. The TT is about being perfect, you can't make mistakes. I would like to see some of the winners from TT race in GP with a top bike like the Ducati or Yamaha and see how they compare to Rossi and Stoner. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
No one, repeat, NO ONE is calling for the race to be "banned". Good grief. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dbird29 |
www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/orl-spt -daytonadeaths,0,1525171.htmlstory 23. James Adamo, motorcycle race, March 7, 1993. RIP Ducati racer, what a great guy James was... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 4cammer |
Any truth to the rumor that Matt Mladin is racing there next year? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb12xmike |
>The world's racing sanctioning bodies had the good sense to drop the venue back in the '80s. But apparently some of the greed-heads couldn't let it go. It's disgusting that people see fit to profit from such a bloody mess. ------------------------------------ It kinda looks like you want it banned. ------------------------------------ It is going to be broadcast 9pm est monday night on discovery hd theater again!! Yeee Haaa! Unbelievably Breathtaking HD!! If you dont have HiDef, go to a bar or pub in ur area and see if they do. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hughlysses |
+1 to that. Watched it earlier this week. Truly awesome camera work; what a beautiful place. Watch it if you can. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
"It kinda looks like you want it banned. " I'm kinda funny in that if I want something, I just ask for it. I've never been the beat around the bush type. I'd make a horrible politician. I think it'd be great if folks quit supporting the event. I sure won't be watching it on TV anymore or supporting efforts to get folks into the race. If enough folks refuse to support the carnage, the commercial aspect will disappear. |
