| Author | Message | ||||||||||||||||
     Chadhargis |
Well, ever since the great start by Eslick this season, I've been waiting for him to get back on the top step of the podium. But.....He's not been there? What happened? He was KILLING the competition earlier in the season prompting tons of "no fair" comments, now he seems to be relegated to 5th or worse. I know the minimum weight limit was raised, but from my understanding, the Buell was already over even the new minimum so it had no effect. Have the 600's been given some advantages? Cardenas is looking good out there. What in the heck has he got going on? Why aren't people protesting him? I figured at Road America, the Buell would surely be on top of the podium given how fast that track is, but it didn't happen. And at Barber, I thought the superior pull of the big twin out of the corners would topple the 600's....nope. Danny is a great rider, the Buell was unstoppable earlier in the season. Now we're sitting in 3rd place in the championship....behind HACKING?? Ack! What's up?? | ||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>>Danny is a great rider, the Buell was unstoppable earlier in the season. Now we're sitting in 3rd place in the championship....behind HACKING?? Absolutely. This is the company that folks predicted would never race again after the XBRR's at Daytona. Cool, huh? | ||||||||||||||||
| Dipstick |
Yes the 600's have gotten faster but the fact still remains that a privateer on a street bike with a stock motor is still in 3rd place against mega-buck factory teams. Dude, thats awesome! In spite of all this, the other teams are STILL complaining about Danny and his Buell. I do love the sound of sour grapes peeling. | ||||||||||||||||
| Court |
There are lots of ways of looking at this . . . one of my favorites . . . being an "inclusion" kinda guy and knowing that one of Erik Buells goals is to make real racing accessible to real people, it this way . . . .
Just how cool is that? It get's even cooler when you take into account that Buells budget is likely less that 1% of resources the Japanese teams have (I haven't a clue, but bet that's good guess) and the fact that the Buells being ridden are scary close to showroom stock. I like people. I like Buells. I like what Buell is doing to bring them together. Some folks opinions may vary and I am very cool with that. . . but on a Buell Motorcycle message board I'll bet I can find some folks as excited I am about Buell's success. By the way . . . if you want to get MORE excited stop by and visit with Michael Barnes or Danny Eslick. Buell could not be better represented. These guys are true professionals and fabulous Buell diplomats. | ||||||||||||||||
| Gearhead |
I'm impressed with the fact that Taylor Knapp is also carrying the Buell flag and placing well in Daytona Sportbike, especially since he races an inline four in the American Superbike class. Nothing wrong with wecloming a convert!! | ||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
There isn't one factory team out there. None of them are directly sponsored by a factory. Kawasaki..... Attack Honda..... Erion Yamaha.... Graves ?? Buell.... Geico Suzuki... M4 What I'm saying is they all have serious sponsor money behind them. Takes alot of cash to run a team of this nature for a season. | ||||||||||||||||
| Midnight_rider |
i maybe wrong but it was my understanding that they tested hp on buell's and added weight to the bikes ? is this wrong? | ||||||||||||||||
| Chadhargis |
Don't get me wrong...I'm happy for Buell, perhaps too happy. I wanted to see Eslick and Buell dominate the competition, Mladin style. Just wondered if someone knew of any other changes made other than the supposed weight penalty, which isn't really a penalty since Buell was already over the weight anyway. I glue myself to the TV each week to see how the Buell's fair. I'm a big fan, and it's awesome to see these guys doing as well as they are. | ||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>>What I'm saying is they all have serious sponsor money behind them. Buell is spending less than 1% of what the other teams are. >>>I'm impressed with the fact that Taylor Knapp is also carrying the Buell flag Hold that thought . . . (Message edited by court on June 23, 2009) | ||||||||||||||||
| Chadhargis |
Court, you're such a tease! Wonder what would happen if Buell spent 2%??? LOL!  | ||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>Wonder what would happen if Buell spent 2%??? Easy. It'd cost them about $150,000. For a grasp, a very sobering grasp, of the magnitude of the numbers take a look at Honda's Worldwide Corporate Financials and dig in until you find "Motorcycle Racing Activities". Be mindful that Honda, in two weeks, makes more motorcycles for the UNITED STATES (they build them in India after first starting their motorcycle production in Belgium in 1963 - some folks don't know Honda started in Belgium than Harley-Davidson makes in a year.  Honda employees more racing engineers that Harley-Davidson has employees. When you start looking at the numbers it gets wild.  | ||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>>Court, you're such a tease! It's easy . . . Buell is 26.17 years into a 200 year plan . . think of Usain Bolt 13 meters into a race. Don't let what you know inhibit your dreams. | ||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Court, Gieco is huge cash. These other teams Attack,M4. They are sponsors not factory sponsors. Yes the factorys sponsor but none the less the budgets are there to do the job that needs to be done. Where do you see that I mentioned what Buell spent or how much involved?? Doesn't matter that Buell spent 1% or 5%. They have the budget. | ||||||||||||||||
| Dtx |
Eslick is sand bagging lately. He'll turn it up again later this year.  | ||||||||||||||||
| Chadhargis |
200 year plan huh? Too bad we'll all be dead by then. Maybe they could escalate it just a bit...make it a 10 year plan? LOL!  | ||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
BTW Court, If there isn't big money in back of the Buell's this year. What was the Tour bus full of Austrian's at Road America this year. Also seen them at the Osthoff. | ||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
BadS1, You have no idea what you are talking about in this discussion. None. "Tour bus full of Austrians" was a bunch of European dealers brought over to visit Buell, ride bikes and see the races to try to get them pumped up to sell Buells since there is virtually no racing going on there. And if you think Graves, Erion, M4 and Attack aren't hugely funded by the Japanese factories, you must believe in the tooth fairy. Best to stay out of what you don't know. | ||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Hey Annony where did I say the Japanese factories aren't funding Attack or Erion or the like.But they are not completely funded by them or it would be Team Honda,Team Suzuki. As far as the tour bus. Funny I have austrian relatives. The broken english and accents sure sounded like it and the thats what the tour bus driver said to me and my Brother that lives in the Osthoff in the summer months. Theres no Buell racing in Europe??? Who would of thought??? Ahhh it doesn't matter to me much anyways. The interest level is dwindling more and more. Yes I'm a Buell fan and I wish them the best. But I'm more just a race fan. I watch who's doing what through the season and such. (Message edited by bads1 on June 24, 2009) | ||||||||||||||||
| Doerman |
I don't see it as Chad does. I see 2-4 Buells in the top 10 in each race as a huge success! We are only halfway through the season. Cardenas and Disalvo are doing great right now. They found something that is just as easily lost again. The Erion Hondas seems to be getting better, but they are inconsistent. The fact is, DMG has a racing formula here that works great. It is exiting, entertaining, and team success is, to a degree, decoupled from racing budget. Since the 1125R was introduced, I'll bet there are twice as many Buells on racetracks around the world compared to a couple of years ago. That's exciting and that is success. | ||||||||||||||||
| Chadhargis |
Gentlemen, don't get me wrong. It wasn't my intention to cast a shadow on the Buell effort. I simply wanted to know if anything had changed to keep Danny off the top podium spot that hadn't been made public. It just seems odd to me that you go from just obliterating people coming out of of turns to be relegated to a "moral victory" of a top 10 finish. Not that finishing top 10 isn't impressive...it is. There are a lot of Hondakawayamasuzki riders who aren't even close enough to sniff Danny's exhaust. I just find it odd that the podiums and even the pole positions have been absent in recent races. Is there some sandbagging going on? I guess I'm like one of those nutty parents at kids sporting events yelling at their kid. I want to see Buell mop the floor with everyone. Total domination, Mladin style. Nothing would make me happier than to quiet the critics who scoff at me when I say I ride a Buell...despite the fact that they can't stay with me when the road turns twisty....even though I'm riding a big, heavy, "Harley powered" adventure touring bike. No one believes in the Buell philosophy more than I do. It just makes sense. The few times I've had the opportunity to speak to Erik personally have been a pleasure. | ||||||||||||||||
| Bob_thompson |
Chad has said, "Nothing would make me happier than to quiet the critics who scoff at me when I say I ride a Buell...despite the fact that they can't stay with me when the road turns twisty....even though I'm riding a big, heavy, "Harley powered" adventure touring bike" . I agree Chad but while those critics are expounding on H.P. and race wins of their R1's, ZX10's, GSXR1000's or Duc 1098's, I tell them I ride the absolute best "street" superbike thats made today with my 1125R. They usually do not have a comeback on that and change the subject. There is a great feeling in "knowing". I too would like to see Buells dominate more in racing but not why I buy Buells. Have you noticed how we are creeping up on the competition every year for the past few years? Stay tuned. Bob | ||||||||||||||||
| Elvis |
In terms of the specific question, here's my take on what, I believe, is a very complicated question: First, and probably most importantly, this is a VERY competitive field. I took a quick look through the standings, and I counted at least 15 riders who have finished top 5. think about that. That's pretty amazing. On any given day, probably any one of those 15 riders has a shot at a win, so nobody - not even Cardenas - is going to win every race in this field. Secondly, I think the first three courses were probably the three highest speed courses. We can go back and forth all we want about power advantages or disadvantages, but I think it's clear at this point that the Buell is a little more powerful and a little heavier than the competition, so it's going to do better on a high-speed track. . . and before anybody starts shouting: "Wait a minute, Buell OWNS the corners.", I think that's true - compared to larger displacement bikes - but against a 360 lb. 600, I'm not embarassed to say I think the smaller, lighter bike will probably turn a little quicker. That's why I'd love to see them find a way to gain 30 HP and go up against the literbikes where their handling advantage could come into play. Third, Danny and the team have more to learn at each round than most of the other competitors. Most of they other teams and riders have been riding bikes very similar to these on these exact courses for years. They probably have detailed notes on what suspension settings to use and what sort of lines they need to hold, etc. etc. etc. so they're able to hit the ground running. Danny, on the other hand, needs to learn as he goes. He has never ridden a Buell on any of these courses before. Over the last several rounds, if you paid attention, you'll see that he gains speed as he gets more and more seat-time. And that leads perfectly into the. . . Fourth point. With the Superpole system riders need to get some good speed early so they can get into Superpole and have a good shot at starting up front. The last few races, Danny has missed the cut-off for Superpole and that sticks him back in the grid. By race-time, he has been nearly as fast as the top riders, but it's difficult to work up from a 12th place starting point - particularly in a field this competitive. And the fifth point is that, while Geico is a big company, the RMR race team is still probably much smaller, much less funded and certainly less experienced racing at this level than the top teams. Geico was sponsoring them last year in Moto-ST, but I didn't seem them riding gold-plated bikes. I would suspect that Geico sponsored them partly because they are a young, hungry . . . and relatively cheap team. I'd be willing to bet that Erion would charge more to put the Geico lizard on their bikes than RMR. So I suspect some combination of all those factors are involved. I would be willing to bet the house that there is no "sand-bagging". These are competitors. They're out there to win, and even if there was some strange reason they would want to lose (I can't imagine a scenerio in which there would be one) I don't think they'd be capable of not giving all they've got. | ||||||||||||||||
| Elvis |
. . . And with all that going on, let's not forget that Danny is still a very strong 3rd in points and he has been out-racing and gaining on Hacking for the last few rounds. If not for the disqualification at Daytona, he'd be ahead of Hacking now. Danny is actually the more consistent and less interesting story of those three. How did Cardenas get so good? or what happened to Hacking? might be more interesting questions than: "Why isn't Danny winning every round?" | ||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
I for sure believe that Hacking is a way better rider then his finishes have shown as of late. I think Attack is having problems getting this bike right for him. He still a contender but they will need to get the bike right and not a whole lot of time left. As far as Danny and crew learning day to day race to race. I think thats a accurate statement. | ||||||||||||||||
| Chadhargis |
Elvis, good assessment and +1 on the 30hp jump to a competitive superbike. The mystery really didn't become a mystery to me until Road America. I knew the Buell, being heavier than the 600's, would have trouble at the tighter tracks like Barber, but I thought just maybe the huge torque advantage would offset the corner entry speed deficit. It didn't. But Road America is one HELL of a fast track. Danny was successful at Road Atlanta, which reminds me a lot of Road America. Both tracks feature "hold it wide open for eternity" type straights. I understand you can't win every race. Even Mladin's invincibility has fallen with the new rules. One thing is for sure, the Daytona SportBike class is as good as WSBK at the moment. Lots of lead changes and the potential for several guys to step up and win one. AMA Superbike is coming along too. I admire Mladin, but I was glad to see someone else win one. It was great to see Larry Pegram get on the top step. | ||||||||||||||||
| Fireboltwillie |
one thing i've taken notice with is the lap times recorded on dsb and superbike. the superbike field is about 2.5 seconds per lap faster. will 30 extra ponies on the buell make up that much time? i hope so. i, like everone else, would love to see buell be highly competitive with the liter bikes. | ||||||||||||||||
| Unibear12r |
I've watched Higbee get out there and hold his own in superbike. More often than not he moves up and doesn't get passed. On a bike that is really nothing more than a Daytona spec bike. If you discount the five factory teams times in Superbike and compare the rest to all the Daytona times on the same tracks you'll see they are all very competitive. That not only says a lot about Higbee and the 1125 but of the entire Daytona class of riders and bikes. Shawn and I had an interesting conversation on this on Sunday. All the 1125 needs is the upgraded engine to be, if not dominating, then definitely a front runner in with the top five in Superbike. | ||||||||||||||||
| Fireboltwillie |
he would know. hopefully he'll have that motor by next season. | ||||||||||||||||
| 46champ |
I'm shur someone will tell me I'm wrong, but isn't sportbike and superbike run on different tires, seems like the sportbikes have treaded tires and the superbikes have slicks. I took a look at Shawn's best lap times on the tracks where he raced on the same day in both events and the track was set up the same, (gets rid of Daytona). Fontana 3/22 Superbike 1:27.931 Sportbike 1:29.038 Barber 5/2 Superbike 1:31.377 Sportbike 1:32.250 5/3 Superbike 1:32.286 Sportbike 1:39.119 (I'm just printing as I read it) Road America 6/7 Superbike 2:21.209 Sportbike 2:25.039 I didn't bother with the first day of Road America because of the rain. Anyway unless Shawn's Superbike has more HP already it looks like the tires are good for at least 1 second a lap. Or am I in fantasy land and don't know what I'm talking about. If these numbers are correct then tires are a bigger difference the faster the track is? | ||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
I thought Shawn was on a pretty stiff budget so infact he was racing more then one race on a set of tires?? |
