| Author | Message | ||
     Dan_m |
Hello, i need some help to decide if i will become a new ulysses owner. Two days ago i did a test ride on a 2009 xb12x. The bike had 31 000km on the clock, the only mod was the exhaust valve blocked in open position. The test ride was short but enough to notice some issues that are keeping me away from buying this bike. What i have noticed: - footpegs vibrations. I understood that this bike should be smooth above 3000RPM, but on the bike that i have tested i felt strong vibrations at the footpegs. My current bike is a aprilia rst 1000 so i am used to vtwins vibrations, but on the ulysses i could not see myself doing many miles with those vibrations. So, was there something wrong with the bike i tested? - low and midrange torque. During my test i did some 2nd gear roll on until 5500RPM but i didn't felt any difference compared to my bike in terms of torque. I remember that i've read a caponord owner review about the ulysses and he was very impressed about the torque. Caponord shares the same engine whith my bike so this leads me into thinking that something was wrong whit the bike that i tested. Does the exhaust valve mod affects so much the low and midrange torque? - pops on deceleration. Is this something common at Buells? If not, what can cause this? Thank you! | ||
| Crempel |
I'll take a stab at this. Excess vibration can come from the primary chain being out of adjustment. About the easiest thing to do even for non mechanical types. 5 minutes. Mine is very smooth at cruising speed, but if I rest the arch of my foot on the pegs, hook the boot heel on the pegs, I get a tingle. Balls of the feet, dead smooth. Torque wise, the blocked exhaust valve likely does make a small difference, but I think that your expectations may just be too high. Excess power is not a Buell problem. They are torquey, but have minimal power overall. No rocket ship. You make time on twisty roads with handling and balance, not power, on a Buell. Popping on decel is unusual. Mine has never done this and maybe some of the other guys here might have some input on that. If you don't mind me asking, what are they asking for the Uly? | ||
| Teeps |
Dan, ride a different Buell XB12 then decide if the vibration you feel on the Ulysses is normal or not. | ||
| Timbobuell |
34000 miles on my xb12xp, never have felt peg vibration. My exhaust valve was temporarily blocked open and after getting it fixed I noticed a low to mid torque increase. | ||
| Etennuly |
The vibrations are likely from the front engine mount. They do fail, if it has not been replaced in 30,000 I would suspect that. If the bike is an in town ridden kind of machine, it might just need to be aired out. My Uly is an '06, but they respond the same to "learned" run ranges. If I run mine slow and easy for several hundred miles it wants to run there. If I take it out and run the higher RPM range through the gears and a higher average speed, it will "learn" to run that way. When it does the high speed run, wholly crap is it alive when I take it out the next time! That exhaust valve needs to work for the best of all ranges of torque and that can also cause the popping on deceleration. Internally that valve when wired open is literally and exhaust leak to the internal tail pipe that bypasses much of the muffler. | ||
| Phelan |
The valve blocked open causes 15 ft/lb dip in mid range torque. Very noticeable. | ||
| Dan_m |
Thanks for reply guys! So your guess for the footpegs vibrations are primary chain out of adjustment or front isolator. I will contact the seller and ask him for some pictures for the front engine mount, and see if the primary chain was adjusted within specs. For the low and midrange torque: again, i am comparing the ulysses with my current bike. Buell has an advantage of almost 18Nm of torque, delivered at aprox. 1000RPM lower, plus the weight advantage. This is what makes me think that something was wrong with the bike i tested. Although on my bike the rev limiter is close to 9500RPM, i very rare rev the engine past the 7000RPM mark, so one of the things that attracts me at buells is the big torque delivered at lower RPM. This is the reason i was a little disappointed during my test. If Phelan numbers are correct than indeed, the torque loss should be very noticeable with the valve blocked open. Crempel, the price for the Ulysses is 4600$. The bikes accessories are: handlebars risers, gps mount bar, fehling sidecases and topcase racks, tankbag and crash pads at front and rear axle. I consider this price to be very attractive. Teeps, unfortunately it is not possible for me to test another Ulysses and compare the bikes. This bike is very rare here in Romania and for the last few months it is the only xb12x for sale here. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's a reasonable price and a good year, but I would be a little concerned about an owner that blocked the exhaust valve open. Not "walk away" concerned, but I'd want to understand why. If it was because the old servo died and they didn't order a new one yet, fine. If they liked the sound better and didn't care about performance, eh, ok I guess. If they say "more pooowwwweerrrr" I would use that as a warning sign to look for other bad decisions on the bike. (Again, not walk away, but just look for other dubious decisions). | ||
| Hunger |
Dan_m. Yes the torque is different but also gear ratios, sprockets... and everything else. It all affects the force pushing the bike forward, doesn't it. You can't assume one bike will be pulling better than another just because of the engine's torque. Speaking of real 'on-the-road' performance. Up to 100-120kph mine goes head-to-head with common 600cc sports (no chance with 750 though!). Starts loosing above that - not a high speed bike. Forget about riding 200kph  As for the one you looked at. I wouldn't say walk away just be suspicious. If the exhaust valve actuator is broken (it's also very easy to check!) see the price (200$) then think what to do  (Message edited by Hunger on December 30, 2015) | ||
| Teeps |
Dan_m Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 06:15 am: Teeps, unfortunately it is not possible for me to test another Ulysses and compare the bikes. This bike is very rare here in Romania and for the last few months it is the only xb12x for sale here. I figured there were few Ulysses for you to ride; but I believe that any XB12 model will be very similar with regard to normal vibrations. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hunger is spot on. We have beat it to death, and can argue more about it in another thread if anyone isn't sick of it yet, but the facts are that only rear wheel horsepower matters, but you need to have a plot of horsepower versus RPM for it to be meaningful (not just peak horsepower). Torque is absolutely related to horsepower, but doesn't tell enough of the story because of gearing, etc. So plot the RWHP versus RPM on a dyno, and use that to compare bikes for how hard they pull at a given RPM. Even that is imperfect, given that you ride different bikes at different RPM's anyway. It's been a while since I did it, but a tuber from 1000 to 6000 RPM is makes as much power as a Hayabusa from 1000 to 6000 RPM. So if you are riding your Hayabusa at less than 6000 RPM, you are no faster than a tube frame Buell. Which makes for a really nice street bike. But the Buell is 'done" at 6000 RPM, while the busa can keep climbing on revs and power. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well at least you found the Bad Weather Biker forum. Where you are located, and the limited number of Buell resources there, this group, more than any HD dealer network can be of help with most anything Buell. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
I had a 2006 ulysses, never noticed any vibration on the foot pegs, i came from a Honda CB 250, now i have an X1 and i don't feel any vibration either, another idea is to find some one with an XB and test that Uly and see what he feels. | ||
| Dan_m |
Quick update to topic: yesterday i bought the bike. As for the vibrations at footpegs, i think this was related to the fact that when i tested the bike, i wasn't wearing proper shoes and the test was very short. I brought the bike from 280km far from home, and now i can say that this bike is definitely more smooth compared to the Futura, although the front isolator is not in good shape. Next thing what i want to test is to close the exhaust valve and see if there is any improvement in torque departament and if the pops of deceleration will dissapear. Thanks again for help! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Leave the exhaust valve alone. More torque the way the factory set it up. | ||
| Etennuly |
El. It is wired open. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the servo and cable is still there, put it back to stock. Also, the front isolator looks a little wonky even when right, so post a picture before assuming it is necessarily torn. I replaced mine after 30k miles (chasing down a mystery RPM dependent rattle I still haven't found), and didn't notice any difference. | ||
| Arry |
Dan, Congratulations on getting a Uly. I'm guessing there aren't too many Ulys in Romania. I'm surprised that you find it smoother that your Aprilia. Don't have too high of expectations for power output, compared to more modern designs. | ||
| Hunger |
Congratulations, man! And don't worry - strong specimens survive in Buell-free zones, just be prepared to Do It Yourself! | ||
| Dan_m |
Hello, i have more questions about this bike, i was thinking to start a new topic, but i will post them here: 1.exhaust valve actuator. It is working, but I suspect that it is not working properly. I mean, at the end phase of opening the valve i can still hear the motor buzzing, but the plate where the cable is attached will not rotate any further. I opened the valve actuator to see if there is any damage inside, it is the plastic gears type, but i did not see any damage. Here is a video how the exhaust valve actuator is operating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khlrbkwqf30&featur e=youtu.be So, is it working properly or not? 2. torque when the engine is hot. Maybe this is a false impression, but i am pretty sure that i can feel some power lose when the engine is really hot, compared to when i ride the bike, after a cold start and let it idle for a couple of minutes. Is this something normal at Ulysses? Or is this related to the fuel being to hot because of the rear cylinder, or the IAT sensor giving to ECM a different temperature compared to ambient? 3.excesive heat on lower right leg. I know that this subject has been discussed a lot here, but i want to know if apart from wrapping the headers, is there any other fix with good results? Does the heat shield for the rear header from the comfort kit reduce the heat on the lower right side? Or ceramic coating is better? Or this two combined? Thank you! | ||
| Hunger |
1. I know it's silly, but maybe just the cable is stuck. Try disconnecting it from the actuator and see if how it moves then. Also have you looked at the other end? | ||
| Arcticktm |
Don't forget to check out the "New Ulysses Owner Information" thread at the top center of the Big Bad and Dirty forum page. It will answer a lot of questions, and keep you from posting something that has been answered every 2 months since 2007! Congrats on your purchase. It must be a brave choice that far from support. Wait, I guess it's kind of the same for us in the USA now... | ||
| Hunger |
Dan_m, I hope that will help: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1WuX8MwMI1ceXJuL WRhUGZPRWM/view?usp=sharing You know, now I'm thinking... yours looks a bit 'loose' to me. Maybe you should simply adjust it. Ad 2. It's definitely not normal but the reasons may be plenty. I assume you have ECMSpy, just hook it up and check the IAT reading - you'll know right off. (Message edited by Hunger on March 07, 2016) | ||
| Dan_m |
Hunger, thank you very much for that video. I notice a big difference at the plate position where the cable is attached. In the video you posted, I notice at the plate position at rest, at least 25 degrees clockwise compared to mine. So i guess that something is wrong with my bike's exhasut actuator, or maybe the cable is to tensioned. I don't have the cable for ECMSpy yet, but it is on my short list of acquisitions. Arcticktm, thanks for suggestion, I will follow the thread. | ||
| Hunger |
Dan_m, too tensioned or too loose. Or stuck. Notice the 'open' position - it's exactly the same as mine. It's just don't returning. Also note that I tested mine by running diagnostic in ECMSpy. You were switching the killswitch (why mine is not moving in such case? no idea - I remember it did once - a calibration of some sort?). Also really you should check the other end. Take off the chin fairing and observe. Maybe that will shed some light. | ||
| Dan_m |
Hunger, I forgot to mention that before testing the exhasut actuator, i removed the cable, i applied some lube , and test how it moves. It was moving freely, and when i was pulling or releasing it, i could definitely hear and feel the valve opening or closing. Also, i will check the other end of the cable, at the muffler side. The problem for me now is that i am working abroad and i will return home and at the end of april. So for now i want to gather as many informations i can get. Again, thank you! | ||
| Hunger |
No problem. What I can tell for now just follow the common sense. There's nothing magical here. When you're back try adjusting cable. Cheers! | ||
| Uly_man |
The valve actuator does not sound too healthy and as said may be due to drag. Remove the actuator from the bike, take the cable off it and cycle the actuator to make sure it is working correctly. Then pull the cable back and forth to ensure it is not binding ie nice and smooth movement. This bike is about torque and not all out BHP. It makes most of it power by around 4000 rpm. It has (better than most) sports bike handling but not sports bike power. You should be able to cruise at about 110 mph and it might make a 130 mph. If you want to ride it fast then thrash it trough the gears ie do not change up before 5000 rpm. And if that does not get your "balls" tingling and a "smiley" face and I can not think of what would with another bike. The RST, RSV and Capo share the same engine but are differently tuned for there respective applications and are NOTHING like the engine in a Uly. I had a RSV-R and it was a very fast bike but in the real world a Uly would best it in everything apart from top end speed. A RST is a pure FULL FARING touring bike so do not expect the same wind protection from a naked bike like the Uly. | ||
| Dan_m |
Thanks for advice Uly man. I will make the test that you suggest, with the actuator. As i said before, after lubing the cable i tested it how it moves, so i am 100% sure it is not binding. Anyway i will inspect further when i will return home. About the bike's power, don't get me wrong, i am very happy with the engine torque. The only issue that i noticed is a difference at how the bike is accelerating in a lower gear when starting to ride after letting it idle for a couple of minutes (after a cold start) vs when the engine is really hot. In the second case (when engine is hot) i feel some power decrease. As for wind protection you are right, there is a difference comparing to Futura. I'm expecting to improve something in this department with the madstad setup. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Dan_m: what does really hot mean? As you get sorted out, do spy or tunerpro and datalog. Then you can see what motor, sensors and ecm are doing and at what engine loads, throttle positions, temperature , area you are riding in is doing. At certain temps the ecm will cut timing back, add fuell,etc to protect motor. There is a temp that ecm will cut the ignition, kill motor, and won't allow restart until a cool down occurs. |
