| Author | Message | ||
     Crempel |
The old girl acted mighty strange this morning. I had plugged into the charger overnight, hoping to see if that would help with the hesitation at startup. Unplugged it and tried to start. Dash lit up like normal, but when I hit the starter button I got a click-click before it turned over but immediately died. Then all the lights were off! No dash, no headlights. I turned the key off and back on and the lights came back on. Same thing when I hit the started button again. All lights dead. Turned off the key again and this time when I turned it back on, nothing, no lights anywhere, no sound, nothing. I waited a few minutes, popped the seat off to check the battery, but tried it one more time before getting out the multi-meter. Fired right up with no hesitation. WTF? Is this a ground issue? VR? Blinker fluid level? | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'd suggest the following: Ensure your battery connections are tight. If you can move the cables by hand, they aren't tight enough. It's a good idea to install "star" type lockwashers under the bolts to keep them tight and improve the electrical connection. Check the other grounds under the seat if you haven't already. Best thing is to remove each one, take a flat file and file the paint off the boss on the tail section, wire brush the threads of the bolt clean (no Locktite), and reinstall the bolt using a star type lockwasher. Finally, you may have a wonky ignition switch. See recent thread here about disassembling and cleaning it. I was able to resuscitate mine a few years ago by spraying contact cleaner into an existing hole in the switch section. I had similar issues. If the issue happens again, try cycling the ignition switch back and forth, wiggling the key, etc. If that affects the bike, odds are it's the ignition switch. | ||
| Ourdee |
Or a wonky relay. | ||
| Steveford |
Wiggle the connectors at the ECM and see if that causes the dash lights to go out. | ||
| Crempel |
Just noticed that my clock was reset. I guess that means that power was interrupted fully at some point. Makes me think it's a ground issue. Anyone agree or disagree? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Sounds like a ground issue, or a bad battery. A bad battery can work fine for a light load, but internally short out under cranking load, producing those symptoms. What's the battery condition/age? An auto parts store can test it under load to check it. | ||
| Crempel |
Battery is a couple of years old. The thing that makes me think it's not the battery is that any time after the initial Uly-pause, it'll crank like crazy. On a side not to that, is it possible that the engine is routinely stopping just as the compression stroke starts, making it hardish for the battery to get past that point initially? | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ That slow crank past the compression stroke is typical behavior of all XB12's, but if the clock is resetting, you've got an issue. | ||
| Reepicheep |
As with the clicking. Mines slow too, but it doesn't click or reset the clock unless something else is wrong. | ||
| Ourdee |
Check grounds first. | ||
| Tootal |
Check the ground wires on the front of the frame below the headlights. Also turn the key on and rotate the handlebars back and forth and see if anything changes. | ||
| Crempel |
Thanks, I will check the grounds, which I have been meaning to do anyways. Will have to wait until tomorrow, as today is wife's birthday. | ||
| Ourdee |
Get her to check the grounds. She's not doing anything.  | ||
| Crempel |
You know, that's an excellent point! Since she will find the bike filthy, she might as well wash it too. Wait......I just woke up.  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
One sneaky, irritating thing that my 2008 bike came with was the battery screws were just a tiny bit too long. I would tighten them and the terminals were still loose. They were bottoming out in the battery. I ground 1/16" off of the end and added star washers to fix it. | ||
| Steveford |
Battery leads, ECM, grounds. The first two will only take a minute to check. It worked once the seat was off so it sounds like it's hitting something. | ||
| Crempel |
Nate, I had exactly the opposite issue. My battery screws/bolts were too short after adding my jacket liner leads, GPS power, and who knows what else. I had to source longer bolts. I think I will get some star washers to bite into things a little better and make better connections. Steve, your point about removing the seat brings up a question in my pointy little head. I have the insulating blanket thingy under my seat. Is the shiny side of it metallic enough to conduct, possibly affecting the ground? Interestingly, it has worked fine since. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Shorting the ground to ground would actually help you. | ||
| Arry |
Hughlysses mentioned the ignition switch (key switch). It sounds like when you've cycled the key off and on, you sometimes get things working. This does sound like contacts in the key switch, and others have had problems with this. Or, the blinker fluid... | ||
| Steveford |
I don't know if the metallic backing would screw anything up but a crushed ECM will shut everything off until you take the pressure off of it. | ||
| Crempel |
So...this morning, when I turned the key, absolutely nothing happened, no dash lights, no fuel pump, no headlights, nothing. I then punched down on the top of the seat above the ECU and the dash lights came right on and it started like a champ. What is going on? Is the ECU dying? Do I need to clean the connections? Once it starts, it runs just fine. I don't get it. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Could be damaged wiring near the ECM, or the seat may be contacting the ECM when you sit on it. This can flex the internal connections eventually breaking the solder joints. There are numerous threads here about relocating the ECM to avoid this issue. The simplest fix is just to unbolt the ECM and move it over a couple of inches and into the "pocket" just to the right of its normal mounting position which provides more clearance between the ECM and the bottom of the seat. If the ECM is in fact internally damaged, you can remove the potting material from the bottom and re-flow the solder joints. I believe a couple of people here have repaired theirs like this. Otherwise, you need to shop for a new or used ECM. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Charles, Can't recall if it was your bike or Saluda Tim's, but Cornell and I were showing someone recently how to make a 2nd spacer (assuming you have at least the 1) for the ECM 2 mounting bolts. This will keep your seat away from the ECM and connectors. A lot simpler than relocating the ECM in my view. Of course, that won't fix any existing damage. I have an EBR ECM for just this reason, and then made a 2nd stand-off spacer out of plastic. I still have my OEM ECM. It throws an ECM failure code and occasionally does a stumble, but it still worked overall. You're welcome to stop by and borrow it. Or come by and I can show you my setup. In fact, I now have a spare OEM ECM from eBay not on the bike you could borrow, but I would want to make sure you had 2 spacers first so as to not risk my full function stock ECM. I just switched back to my EBR unit after Eric Z helped me figure out my pinging, and I enabled the muffler valve logic in the EBR ECM. Lemme know. Ya got my number and address. You still need that TPS reset and brake fluid change! | ||
| Arcticktm |
...and whatever you do, DON'T UNBOLT the front most ECM mounting bolt without knowing what you're doing (holding it from below until you re-insert the screw). It would not be fun to have it come out from underneath and try to get it back in. Fortunately for me, others on BadWeb saved me from this. Paying it forward... | ||
| Hughlysses |
It would not be fun to have it come out from underneath and try to get it back in. Been there, done that. It involved a piece of thread, some duct tape, and an hour's worth of extreme profanity. | ||
| Arry |
I think your lights and fuel pump operate independent of the ECM, so, you may have a problem elsewhere. Maybe one of the relays in the fuse box...? The clock resetting does sound like a power loss or bad ground...? Good Luck | ||
| Yo_barry |
On the clock resetting... a year ago on my 2009 Uly, the battery was at it's end of life. When I would try to start it and the battery just wouldn't kick the engine over, my clock would reset. Just something to keep in the back of your mind. Barry Hollister, CA | ||
| Steveford |
His problem is the ECM is being broken by the seat hitting the connector. You can toggle the fuel pump on and off by wiggling the connector on his ECM. This I know from experience on two ECMs in Ye Olde Useless. | ||
| Xbimmer |
He's gonna have to remove the ECM anyway so I'd just detach it and lay it down in there temporarily and see how it goes. I've always been convinced that the stock arrangement of a solid rear attachment and a heat-flexible front attachment point for the ECM helps kill the board. In fact my stock '06 has plugs that are now angled slightly from each other after lots of miles, however it responded well to the solder repair and I'm running it again, relocated. I think the OEM blocks make the problem worse, I had 2 on mine and the boards on both ECM's broke anyway. The only way to prevent it IMHO is to raise the seat or relocation. | ||
| Crempel |
Back when I was much (much!) younger a mechanic friend of mine taught me to check the simple things first. I wonder when I forgot to do that. Finally got around to looking at it yesterday and found my positive battery bolt very loose. Duh! Tightened it up, probably two full turns, and all is good. Thanks for all the input. | ||
| Tootal |
Ding Ding Ding Ding! And the award goes to Hughlysses who stated at the beginning, in the first response, to check the battery connections!   | ||
| Steveford |
That sounds very familiar with the battery terminals. As everyone has said, move that ECM as far away from the seat as you can. I'll never understand why they didn't stick it back by the BAS like they did on the X1. Nitwits. | ||
| Crempel |
I guess I'm not sure where exactly to move the ECM. Anyone have a picture? | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ See this thread or search for more; there are several: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/629631.html?1303991777 |
