| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
Bike has over 24,000 miles and runs great. Last night my son comes in about 9:30 and I thought he'd wrecked his 07 ULY by the looks of him. Turns out he had pushed his bike nearly a mile up and down hills because the belt had broken. I put my shoes on and helped him push it up the last block long steep hill to our house. We ordered a new belt this afternoon and it cost over $190 with the tax. Way too much in my opinion. Will take a week too arrive at the local Harley Dealer. My 06 shed it's first belt right at 25,000 miles and again in the upper 40's somewhere. Seems they are built to last about 20 to 25K miles. As Hughllyses said it would be very dangerous to lose a belt during rush hour on the interstate. That would really be the end I bet. Neither my son or I abuse the belts, they just decide that enough is enough and part. | ||
| Ourdee |
This is a link to a thread from my last breakage: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/768468.html There is a pic of a modification to loosen the belt and a link to where I got the idea. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Between my 07 and 08 I have combined 50K and I think I've broken 5 belts. Order two and carry a spare. With the right tools, one can replace a belt in about 25 minutes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm the opposite... between my 00, 05, and 07 I probably have 80k+ miles and never broke a belt. (knock knock knock) | ||
| Ourdee |
HEY, get your knuckles off my head. In 47k miles I've lost a tooth off a belt and broke another belt. I know I'm hard on them. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Wait...$190 is "too much" for a 24k mile wear item? | ||
| Crempel |
I agree with the Rat. A chain may not have broken, but it wouldn't have gone 24k miles and when you did replace it, don't forget that sprockets aren't free. A chain and sprocket kit is roughly the same money for likely less than half the miles. My time is also valuable and every minute spent cleaning$, lubricating$ and adjusting$ the chain adds up and could have been used for things like um...riding. Remember what a PITA cleaning the chain on a bike with no center stand was? It is also interesting what we find "acceptable" and what we don't. We all (except for the Shinko cheapskates) pay about $190 for a rear tire at much shorter intervals than that. We grumble a bit and do it again. I'm certainly not defending the actual price of the belt, seems like it costs a lot to me too, but spread out over 8 years (age of bike), it doesn't seem too bad. While chains rarely break, how many miles have we ridden thinking "man, I should have adjusted that thing yesterday, it's so noisy"? A broken belt is certainly an inconvenience, but an infrequent one. To most people 24k miles with ZERO maintenance is a dream. BTW my first breakage occurred a few months ago at 36K miles as I was pulling into the parking lot at work. Got lucky there. Given that 24K miles represents 8 years of riding on this particular bike, wouldn't replacing it every 5 years almost certainly eliminate the risk? Just sayin..... Just too prove that there is no satisfying everyone: My background is in the piano business, ya I said it. The pinblock in a piano will typically last about 60 years. if I had a nickel for every complaint about durability from a customer whose 60 year old pinblock failed I could buy another Uly. "Why don't they make them out of something else besides wood?" 60 YEARS!!! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Rat, I'm only saying it's high priced from the stand point that originally it was billed as a lifetime belt. Nobody worries about a chain breaking but I do sometimes worry that these belts will break without warning in the most mis-opportune place once it has over 20,000 miles on it. Both times my belt broke within 2 miles of my home and it wasn't on the rush hour freeway thank God. I love having a belt but they sure have a tendency to break without warning. My Harley belt has 40,000+ miles on it and it has always been very loose in comparison to our Buells. I'm sure they break also but I'm also sure they last many more miles than these Buell belts. That said, I like belts and I really like the ULY's rear axle setup but I also maintain the belt is too expensive but what can I do about it but pay the piper. | ||
| Teeps |
Crempel Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - We all (except for the Shinko cheapskates) pay about $190 for a rear tire at much shorter intervals than that. I resemble that! Nothing wrong with Shinko tires for general use. I get a set of Shinkos for that price delivered to my door; they, for me, work just as well as the high priced tires and last longer, too! The price on a Uly belt has gone up about $15~20 since 2010 when I ordered one from Al @ American Sport Bike | ||
| Hughlysses |
You can find the belts cheaper at a couple of on-line dealers. That's where I bought my previous belt ~2 years ago. After my disappointing experience with that belt, I bought my most recent belt from American Sport Bike. I figure it's a sure bet one from American Sport Bike is a "fresh" belt in case that has any bearing on the service life. Of course, this thread does raise the question "How much longer will be able to get belts?". HD said they'd support these bikes for 7 years, which will roll around next October. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll drop every Buell part on that date, but it is something to think about. Hopefully Al will be able to source the belts directly from Goodyear if HD no longer carries them. | ||
| Crempel |
I thought the Shinko reference would get a response. I just giving you crap. Not trying to start a tire brand war. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I always wondered if belts were attacked by Ozone like other rubber things. Like if you parked the bike in your basement/garage next to blower motors and power tools that threw off Ozone? | ||
| Cupcake_mike |
I dont really have a preference chain or belt but if you can only get 20k out of a chain you are doing something wrong. Even cheap ass #50 chain will last 10K. A decent x-ring chain will last me 40K and I usually change sprockets then, even though they look fine, because they "probably" wont last another 40... | ||
| Hughlysses |
I think the major reason to dislike the belt for a lot of us is the seemingly random failures. Some people break them at 10k miles; some belts last 30k or 40k+. There doesn't appear to be any correlation between use and abuse and belt life. There's often no outward sign that the belt is about to give up. My last belt didn't fail, but it had enough cracks to make me extremely leery of it which is why I replaced it at less than 20k miles. I do remember reading an article about a Harley big twin rider years ago who achieved amazing mileage with his original belt- in excess of 100k miles IIRC. Now I know our belts are different and are likely much more stressed than a typical cruiser belt, but maybe we can learn something from him. I remember the main thing he owed his long belt life to was cleanliness. He said he made a point to carefully wash the complete belt and sprockets on a regular basis. I think he just used his normal suds in a bucket mixture but he did use a soft brush. Now it's not real easy to do that on a Uly, but I'd think it'd be worthwhile to do at each rear tire change. I went to the trouble to thoroughly clean my sprockets when I changed my belt a couple of weeks ago. I'm going to try to make a point to wash mine regularly this time and see if that seems to increase belt life. | ||
| Tootal |
Hugh, my Harley belts last over 80,000 miles. I usually change them at around that mileage just because changing one on the road is near impossible since you have to pull the outer and inner primary which requires the removal of the clutch etc. Harley used to sell a pinned belt that could be used to get to a dealer ASAP! My Harley weighs over 800 lbs. and the engine puts out over 100 ft. lbs. of torque and it gets romped every once in a while and I've never broke a belt. I've put a total of 170,000 miles on Harley's without one issue with belts. I still contend that bending the belt backwards is the reason they break. They say it's engineered to do that but I don't think their engineering was good enough. I realize we need the idler to maintain tension but it's killing the belts. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Tootal, I tend to agree with your reasoning because every engineer knows that if you bend something back and forth enough times it will fatigue and break. These belts are very stiff when new so eventually something has got to give and it inevitably reaches its fatigue point and breaks. With that in mind it probably is very helpful to reduce a new belt's tension by slotting the idler hole. Can't really see how being so darned tight is of any value to the belts longevity. I would think the belt would last like a Harley's if 10lbs of tension would deflect the belt 1/2 inch just like on the Harley. 10 lbs pull with a fish scale on my Buell's belt wouldn't even deflect the belt at all especially on a brand new belt. | ||
| Tootal |
EG, that's so true. I might go slot mine a little and do just that. I really need to pull it off and stare at it for a while. There's got to be a way to make it adjustable. You're so right, that thing wouldn't budge with only 10 lbs. on it! Now the guys running the spring loaded idler are still breaking belts from what I understand so I don't think belt tension is the complete answer but it can't hurt. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I thought of one way to do it: enlarge one of the holes in the idler bracket and install an eccentric bushing. You rotate the eccentric bushing to change the idler position and therefore the belt tension. The details that need to be worked out are how to rotate the bushing and how to lock it in place. I guess it could have a hex on the outside end to allow it to be rotated with a wrench. And you could drill and tap the side of the bracket to be installed to lock the bushing in position. (Message edited by Hughlysses on November 05, 2015) | ||
| Teeps |
Discounting bending the belt backward and shearing off of the teeth, I believe shock loads are quickest way to fail a belt. | ||
| Jim2 |
I saw this along time ago. I don't know if it would work with a idler pulley. Anyone ever use one? http://www.manta.com/cp/mx7fyh8/4f186356ea8fa8303f 00017f/drivebelt911 | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Can the stud be moved instead? I'll be showing my son how to change the belt once the one we ordered shows up next week. That will give me a better look at the situation. I do like the eccentric bushing idea.https://www.google.com/search?q=eccentric+bushing& es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAm oVChMI_aPug836yAIVE-pjCh2RnwH7&biw=1536&bih=756#im grc=YIwOMVsNLnEawM%3A (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on November 05, 2015) | ||
| Tootal |
If you put an eccentric bushing on one of the studs it would not work. It moves in all directions and unless the second hole was slotted, which is doable, it wouldn't work all by itself. But, we can slot the second hole but how technical is the location of the idler? | ||
| Big_island_rider |
My thought is that, as said before, bending the belt over the idler pulley is flexing the fibers and causing the breaks. I changed my belt at 20k just to be safe. I would carry my old one but I don't have very far to go in The Island. The only way to absolutely confirm the theory above would be to find a belt that fits that bypasses the idler pulley. Don't know if such a belt exists. | ||
| Hughlysses |
If you put an eccentric bushing on one of the studs it would not work. It moves in all directions and unless the second hole was slotted, which is doable, it wouldn't work all by itself. Yea, that occurred to me sometime last night. I'm still thinking on it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just take a step drill bit ($10 at harbor freight for a pair of them) and drill both holes two sizes up. That lets the thing "skew" a little on the shafts and gives more room for tolerance stackup. I first did it to make tire removals easier, expecting it to shorten belt life as a the belt is designed to run under tension. It's served me well to make tire changes easier, but seems to have served me well for belt life too. And for the Uly (not so much the XB9SX), I could feel the suspension stop binding up on big bumps after I did the mod. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Enlarging the holes is clearly the simplest way to reduce belt tension. Any way to make the tension adjustable I can think of tends to get complicated. The eccentric bushing idea still requires both holes to be enlarged, and it's not easy to provide convenient and lockable adjustment on the eccentric. You could enlarge the holes for the idler roller shaft and install eccentric bushings there, but that would get complicated as you'd have two bushings and the two sides would have to be adjusted identically to avoid having the roller run crooked relative to the belt. Another idea would be to enlarge just the upper mounting hole for the idler roller mounting bracket, then drill and tap the forward side of that hole for a set screw. With the set screw backed off, the roller is lowered, reducing belt tension. As the set screw is screwed in, the roller moves up, increase belt tension. Judging from photos though, there's not a lot of clearance at the front end of the roller bracket below the transmission output sprocket and there's not a lot of material in the idler bracket at this point to support the load on the set screw either. The lower hole could be enlarged with a set screw on the aft side of the hole, but that would be a bitch to drill and tap as the hole would be at a very shallow angle to the bottom of the bracket. You could just chuck the roller up in a lathe and turn the outside diameter down slightly. Of course, this is non-reversible, you'd destroy the hard anodized coating on the roller, and it might take a big cut (maybe too big) to reduce the diameter enough to be worthwhile. Finally, another idea worth checking is to find an alternative smaller diameter roller. Similar rollers are used on the wide, multi-V belts used on a lot of current automobiles. There might just be an off-the-shelf roller that's close to the same width with the same shaft size that's 1/8" or 1/4" smaller in OD. Those rollers are pretty cheap (~$5-$10 last time I bought one). I'll investigate that possibility when I have time. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The idler pulley on my 2004 Dodge pickup was wobbling a bit so I replaced it. It was cheap as you said but then I noticed that the new one was wobbling too! Closer examination showed me that the old one was fine and that it jut had a single row ball bearing. So did the new one. I'm just mentioning this since the replacement pulley would have to have two bearings for it to be worthwhile. I was shocked that they put just a single bearing in there like that! | ||
| Tootal |
The only way to absolutely confirm the theory above would be to find a belt that fits that bypasses the idler pulley. Don't know if such a belt exists. I would love to do this but the idler needs to be there to compensate for the misalignment of the front pulley to the pivot point of the swing arm. Without the pulley the center to center distance would not remain the same through the arc of the swing arm. Since the Uly has a longer "swing" than the rest and we all can feel it on a big bump when the teeth are straining. Hugh, you are correct in everything you said. I've looked at it before and thought of all those solutions but never came up with a solution. However, I need to look at it again and see if there is room to spot face an area next to a stud hole and drill a hole for an eccentric. The eccentric would push on the stud and rotate the the idler assembly and your nut would lock both of them down. You'd have to slot the stud hole of course but it wouldn't take to much. Over the weekend I'll stare at it again.  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
My thought is to just drill and tap for the stud somewhere on the same arc the bracket takes when you only have the right stud used and the other stud removed to see where the true arc goes. Of course that is probably wrongly assuming there is a place to drill and tap a new hole. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on November 06, 2015) | ||
| Hootowl |
"I still contend that bending the belt backwards is the reason they break" "The only way to absolutely confirm the theory above would be to find a belt that fits that bypasses the idler pulley. Don't know if such a belt exists." They do. Tubers use them. Tubers don't bend their belts backwards, and they lose belts with the same frequency and randomness as the XBs. |
