| Author | Message | ||
     Jdm1200 |
Looks like I waited too long to get that new ECM. Is there some way to still purchase from EBR? THe website link just takes you to a blank page. I was hoping to get a tuned ECM with new pipe and retaining stock ECM with stock pipe. | ||
| Froggy |
At this point in time there is no way to get a new EBR ECM. Stock ECMs are still available new from a Buell dealer. | ||
| Jdm1200 |
Thats what I thought. Poor timing on my part. I just didn't want to go through reprogramming the ECM since I am kind of isolated. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Don't know for sure yet, but I might have an EBR ECM for sale sometime this summer. Mine is for an '06 "stock", which they only issued for a short time. I like it, but want to play around with some timing/fuelling to get the pinging that remains out. I am using ECMSPy, so I have learned here that I should not use that to try and reprogram the EBR unit. OK, so I just got a stocker from eBay to play around with (my original has an occasional fault code for ECM failure, though it still runs). If I can get the eBay unit to accept the maps I pulled up from the EBR unit, then I probably won't have any use for hte EBR unit anymore. I just haven't tried it yet because I am distracted by my new toy (KTM). Don't tell the Uly... If I do decide to sell it, I'll post it on BadWeb first. | ||
| Woodnbow |
If you take it to the nearest Buell dealer they should be able to give you the newest fan logic anyway.. I think it's the "comfort Kit reflash" | ||
| Tootal |
Froggy can jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't thing you can take anything from an EBR ecm and transfer it to the stock unit. Things are in different locations and and numbers don't all mean the same thing. EBR told me that using ECMSPY on the EBR unit will screw it up, even doing a TPS reset. 06 units are different than the 08-10 units that have the fan logic reflash. | ||
| Froggy |
It is a bit of a yes and no thing. You certainly can't do it with ECMspy, but TunerPro gives you more options to deal with, and it supports EBRs firmware version. | ||
| Ourdee |
Froggy, While your here; I have an 08 OEM ECM in my Scg. Can it be custom mapped with TunerPro. | ||
| Froggy |
Yep it can be. | ||
| Arcticktm |
OK, I'm no Froggy, but I have a work around plan. All I really want from the EBR ECM is the fuel and timing. I can just take the values from EBR and manually change the OEM ECM to those value via ECMSpy. Shouldn't be any harm in that, right? EBR ECM isn't controlling the exhaust valve anyway (despite what EBR tech told me), so I like the OEM better for that anyway, unless I just decide to keep the valve permanently open at some point (the cable/vlave is getting pretty sticky no matter how much I work on the cable). All of my TPS resets, including with the EBR ECM, have been done with the VDSTS software that I bought back in 2007. I only got ECMSpy a few months ago, and only used it to download the EBR EEPROM and maps so far to compare them to the OEM maps. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Oh, and thanks to Froggy and others for the repeated warnings, or I would have tried putting the EBR maps into the stock ECM. I'm still not clear if that is likely to cause a problem with the stock ECM, but I think to be safe I'll take the approach in my previous post, manually editing the values. I am just trying to eliminate the acceleration pinging I have long had, not trying to accomplish anything else. | ||
| Tootal |
What I found with the race ecm is that the timing is way too advanced. More advanced than the stock unit and it's too advanced too. The problem is the fuel. If you're using 10% ethenol and it's hot outside you are going to ping. I got some real gas in Wisconsin on my way to Homecoming and all my pinging went away and I jumped up to 50 mpg!! Bikes were designed for real gas not the corn crap! | ||
| Froggy |
Arctic, your plan should work, but personally I would read the EBR ECM using TunerPro instead of ECMspy. Because ECMspy does not read the memory correctly, it can show incorrect values (like a box might say 122 when it should be saying 100). TunerPro is a total pain in the ass to setup and get working, but is well worth it in the end. Tootal is right about the Race ECMs (both the EBR and Buell P&A one) will add more timing and likely worsen your issue. Before doing anything ECM related I recommend checking your static timing, and possibly retarding it a tick. Both of my 06s never pinged with the stock ECM or Buell P&A Race ECM, regardless of how hot, and all I ever run is 10% Ethanol. | ||
| Ourdee |
Froggy, Any suggested site or reading to help me into the TunerPro world? I'm looking for "TunerPro For Dummies". You know, point A to B, intro, overview, and step by step. Thanks, R.D. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Froggy/Tootal, Thanks to you both. I am not so sure I am into it enough to bother with TunerPro, though I do have it. Just to much else going on with work, school, family, and now the Buell is not the main bike. I get your point on the EBR timing, and that is why I will run the eBay OEM ECM now to baseline it before I do anything else. I know next step should then be static timing check, but I was also thinking I'd rather retard only in the specific areas I have trouble. On the ethanol, I have found/used 100% gas 93 (full tankfulls at a time), but that did not make my issue go away. I even tried octane booster many years ago, but found that to be a wast of time/money. My best best is this: EricZ is starting to work at the same place I do next week. I believe he is up on TunerPro due to needing it for his turbo project and future plans to upgrade ECM's. He is the one that helped me this far my loaning me his Palm setup to monitor data while test riding. | ||
| Airdale |
I am in the same boat with Ourdeee I have tunerpro loaded on the laptop & have the cable, but after that I am lost.... Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. Dave | ||
| Uly_man |
"06 units are different than the 08-10 units that have the fan logic reflash". True. Early ones are DDFI-2 and later ones are DDFI-3 which are a totally different ball game. You can not do the re-flash for fan speed like the later units. ECM-SPY, like Tuner-Pro, runs its program numbers based on a Excel spread sheet and you can pull up the "raw numbers" using Excel. I know as I have done it. ECM-SPY was designed as a more "user friendly" way of getting into the ECM IE A all in one from the start system but NOT data logging on the original free version. Tuner-Pro, on the other hand, is a system "base" that is used for many other FI systems including cars. All you need to make it work is to "load up" the interface file for buells, from Tuner-Pro, and ECM type files from the ECM-SPY site for your ECM version. This will then give you direct access to all of the ECMs parameters IE The numbers that make it work, real time engine running IE You can see the numbers changing as the engine is running and data logging/ replay of that saved log. The only hard part is if you want to use the graphical "dial face/ information" section to work. This is a pain as it is, unlike ECM-SPY, not part of the base program for Buells. I did it, and it is worth it, but hard to explain here. I will try if asked. I only ever used the free version of ECM-SPY for a TPS reset on my 06 bike. I then got into Tuner-Pro. The later ECM-SPY version is much better and has Megalog run logging built-in but you have to pay for that version. Personally I do not like Megalog but that is just me. All you are paying for is another persons "graphical interpretation" of the raw data from your ECM. | ||
| Ourdee |
Thanks Uly-man | ||
| Arcticktm |
FWIW, I did a back to back this weekend on the OEM vs. EBR (stock version) ECM on my '06 Uly. Same road, same conditions, monitoring RPM, Throttle %, Engine Temp. Engine temp 190-210 for both tests. It was about 80F ambient outside, and I was running 2000-2500 ft altitude. Note I have XB9 gearing on my bike. I had just filled up with a pump labeled 90 octane ((R+M)/2)no-ethanol (yes, I know that is low for the Buell, but it was a test for worst case octane I would ever run). I also put about 4 ounces Sea Foam in the tank, just to really make the test uncontrolled! Anyway, the point is that the knocking was noticeably worse with the EBR in accelerating out of corners (which is the problem I am working on). Let's call it 3500-5000 RPM, 25-50% throttle. The both had pinging, though the OEM ECM was light. The EBR was enough to keep you out of the throttle at times. One difference was at cruise. There was a 3000RPM, 10-15% throttle spot that pinged some on the stock, but less on the EBR. Anyway, I'll use this info to compare the 2 calibrations and consider making a small move on the OEM ECM to see if I can impact the problem before I do anything like change static timing. I also have to rebuild my front brakes, so it may take a while to get to it. I guess at this point I should have started my own thread instead of a hijack, but it seems too late now... | ||
| Tootal |
Sounds very familiar. I'm at 580 ft. of elevation so it's worse here. I run 93 octane with 10% ethenol. You are on the right track as I tried taking some timing out of the static and it slowed the bike down too much and still pinged a little at certain places. Taking it out of those certain places is a much better way to go. | ||
| Uly_man |
Ok let me see if I can help you guys any. I am NOT going to make comments about things anyone has done to the bike so far as it is "way to complicated" at this point. First the 06 bikes run leaner than the later ones so fitting a K&N (or other type) air filter, open air box and/ or open exhaust is not going to help fueling and you need to account for theses changes. Although the bike should still run well, on good fuel, just not at its best. Next if you are trying to track down a running issue with the engine you need to do this. Ensure that ALL your sensors as working correctly. I had a bad tilt sensor that caused "glitches" that could not be explained until I caught/ found it on the "logged run" data. Make sure, on the 06 bikes, that the sub-frame ECM/ battery Earth point is clean of paint as it caused timing issues on my 06 bike. I had a bad IAT sensor on my 10 bike and it caused the reading to be 50C higher than the ambient air temp. Which is WAY to high. Also ensure that you do not have any DAMAGED CABLES on the bike. Before you do anything, on the 06 bike, you should set the static timing to factory specs and do the correct TPS re-set on the bike. I can not stress how important this is on a 06 bike. Now while you can do a "monitoring run" to find the problems it is, in fact, of very little help. Why? Well the bike is making changes by the millisecond and there is "no way" you will know about, or remember, them unless they are recorded IE A logged run. A logged run will allow you to sit down and run over the data in real time to spot any problems that may be going on. Trust me guys it is THE ONLY way to do it and will save you time in the long run as well. Trying to find, I did myself, problems "on the fly" will take forever and you may still never find them. The timing issue on my 06 bike were like it for TWO YEARS and I only found it by LUCK? All of this can take a lot of time and effort. ECM-SPY and Tuner-Pro are NOT "cure all magic bullets". They are a tool to work on your ECM and like any other tool you need to know how to use them. I KNOW how daunting it can be but if you start with the basics you should be ok. Good luck. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Uly_man, Thanks for the input. I don't think I have any sensor problems, but also didn't even think about them, so that is something worth thinking about first. I do have a K&N, a '07 airbox cover, and an open cc breather on an otherwise stock bike. All of these are really easy to reverse and do a back to back test to see if that makes a difference. Worth doing for sure, so thanks for the reminder. I spent several years doing engine calibrations for a living for Detroit Diesel, so I do get your point on flight recording vs monitoring. I have also used the "calibration changes are not a magic bullet" speech on customers before! However, the trick for me here is that I must correlate the acceleration flight record with when it did/did not ping. Obviously the ping doesn't show up on the fight record. maybe I could do some easily apparent throttle blip or something after it pings to make it easy to find in the data. I don't think I can data log with my ECMSpy version, but I know I can with my old VDSTS tool. I don't have much time to spend on this bike until next summer, so if by chance the stock filter/box made it better, I'd call it good enough for now. I recall it had the issue before I made those changes, but memory is not so clear that many years back. Either way, it's a small, but interesting, puzzle to work on. | ||
| Uly_man |
"I had just filled up with a pump labeled 90 octane ((R+M)/2)no-ethanol". The owners manual says use 91 (R+M)/2 (95 RON). 95 RON is what I use in the UK and it should be fine for your bike. The mods on the bike should not be a issue regarding your present problems either. 2000 ft altitude is also not an issue and we have roads that high even in the UK without problems. Given these points I would be inclined to think it is a fault with the bike itself. Sensor and/ or wiring faults ARE A PROBLEM on this bike, its biggest fault and down to the quality of the parts, design errors and factory build issues. I know as I have had them all. "Obviously the ping doesn't show up on the fight record". Sorry but I disagree with that, to a point, because if the fuel is good then the bike WILL RUN RIGHT. Anything else WILL show up on the flight record as not being right IE If the gear "read back" is right and/ or the timing is correct. To me it sounds like a timing issue. The sensors tell the ECM what the bike is doing even the gear (load) it is in.  | ||
| Firemanjim |
Are you able to look at the maps in your ECM? I have seen a ton come through-- stock and race-- and they seem to have a lean area at the 3400-4000 rpm areas. If you look at fuel settings on either side the numbers will be larger.And there should be a "flow' to the fuel numbers as you go up in rpm. Can you post screen shots? | ||
| Jrockne |
I'm in the boat of looking for one of these EBR ecms for my uly. Any help would be appreciated. -> http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/ 761563.html?1432940027 | ||
| Ourdee |
The race ECMs had different parameters entered depending on the specific customer's requests. Fan logic options, exhaust system options, etc. If, you find one, you will want to know what was asked for when it was ordered. How-ever, Now that I said that, your requests did not mean that is what was loaded into yours. Mine was supposed to have the fan shut off when stopped. The fan always ran like the early 08 program. If your new one was used on an XT, the plug end may be cracked. Most owner's did not know it was their responsibility to relocate, modify, or otherwise make up for the clearance issue that would crack the ECM. Harley is only responsible for the OEM ECM under the seat. EBR did not cover "Harley's poor design in the mounting location". (tongue in cheek) EBR did offer a discounted price to me if, I wanted to buy another ECM. All 08 XB12XTs with a 200 pound plus rider need the ECM protected from the bottom of the Low-Seat cracking the ECM. | ||
| Ourdee |
Jim, Do you think that the fuel was being leaned out on the restricted exhaust path just prior to the exhaust valve opening, and then adding extra fuel for the less restricted path as the valve opened? | ||
| Portero72 |
http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp? guid=YXHFSC&aid=2443&cid=9640&s=&a=&aname=TM_ECM_R eflash__all_models | ||
| Arcticktm |
Thanks Portero72, but for 200 Euros I'll try my hand at ECMSpy small changes first, since I already have that invested. firemanjim, I'll see if I can get some screenshots that are easy to read. I have the entire EEPROm uploaded from both the stock '06 and my "stock" EBR ECM. | ||
| Smorris |
im not up to speed with much of this but if an new oem ECM is purchased: is it blank? if so can the old HD/Buell dealer program it. currently have 06 that was reflashed when the comfort kit was installed it works fine but there is hair line crack at connector. so if purchase y0152.3a8a, is there a way to transfer program if HD/Buell dealer can not? |
