| Author | Message | ||
     Desert_bird |
I've diagnoses what appears to be a burnt warming element in one of heated grips and a burnt circuit in the other so it only runs on high. Rather than toss $250 for a new set of Buell grips (heated grips, wiring and switches for both sides) what are ideas on a hack, such as wrapping a set of these two-level heated-grip elements over the stock grips, pulling some soft rubber grips over that, and just splicing them to the stock wiring from the original grips/switch? http://www.amazon.com/Symtec-Motorcycle-Handle-War mer-210019RR/dp/B001AWRCJO/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid= 1376848375&sr=8-4&keywords=heated+grips+for+motorc ycle#productDetails Fleabay has pads for as low as 8 bucks, but elements don't look as quality as these symtec ones and the hi on hi low models is only good for 10 watts. Stock grips on high run 18 watts at 1.6 amps. These symtec on high run 36 watts at 3 amps. DB | ||
| Hughlysses |
I've never experienced the joy of heated grips (that may change this winter), but I thought most people said the stock grips were almost TOO hot on high. If you double that wattage, aren't you gonna cook your hands? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Scrap them and use the Polly grip heater cartridges. They will take a little longer to get the bars warm, but they are $20 or something and will last for-freaking-ever. I am between versions of the thermostat to control them... but it's working well. The new one will have all the best features of all the different old versions, plus some new gratuitous technology.  Won't be happening before winter though... so wire them with a switch or some other heat controller in the meantime. | ||
| Hughlysses |
OK, Reepi, we need part numbers and schematics!  | ||
| Desert_bird |
Yes, would like a schema Bill . . . so could one run those cartridges on the stock wires and the stock switch? What's the amperage/wattage? Hugh, I never found stock settings to hot. Just right for me. Maybe I need to hold the bars higher . . . Man, you gotta get warm bars. Figure I could run the symtec pads for a few moments on high to get things going (they will have old grips below. plus the hush puppies between them and my hands), then drop to low. I really like the stock switch and hardware. Prefer using what's there rather than adding more stuff up front, that's why I wanted to stay with the original setup as much of it as possible. | ||
| Dtaylor |
I'm running the Poly Heaters off of the stock switch on my 2008 Uly. Very sano, and they work great. To use the stock switch as intended, be sure to get the dual element Poly inserts (three wires). They run about $30 online. I used new connectors from American Sport Bike for $14: http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17301-Conn.html I replaced the dead OEM heated grips with regular grips, which required a new throttle tube and a plastic sleeve on the left side of the bar. If I were doing it again, I'd probably re-use the dead grips, as well as snip the wires with connectors off the dead grips and pig-tail them to the Poly Heater wires with posi-lock connectors. (Message edited by dtaylor on August 19, 2013) | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
My throttle side stopped working due to wire fatigue. I was able to fix it with a soldering iron and an exacto knife. I found the brake was right at the point that it exited the grip. I cut the rubber back carefully and resoldered the wires with heatshrink. Then to make it last for a while, I poked a hole in the ridge at the edge of the grip and ziptied the wire against the grip so it wouldn't flex. I then rerouted the wire up and over. Looks extra dorky but doesn't flex at a tight radius. So far has lasted more than a year! I'd post pics but I took the car to work today. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here is as far as the new rev has gotten. Still some component tweaking to be done when I prototype and test (and see if I can pack all the code I need into that little version of the PIC). Right now, if anyone wants to help, the biggest obstacle I am facing is a good affordable weatherproof enclosure for the thing.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
As I reacll, Polly heaters draw about 15 watts each, for 30 watts total. It runs fine off the stock Uly heated grips wiring. On my XB9SX, I ran the heaters off the low beam power feed, which had been replaced by a relay setup for my HID. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Holy crap, Bill. Looks like you're using a mnemonic memory circuit to read the rider's mind and set the grip heaters accordingly. (Message edited by Hughlysses on August 19, 2013) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Funny you say that, I was thinking about almost that exactly as I rode to work this morning. Mind reading (and fortune telling) are what would be needed to get this to work perfectly. I need to stop sending heat to the cartridges about 2 minutes before before you start to slow to a stop, otherwise the heat overshoots. There is a lot of latency in the system. Grip heaters would probably have less latency, but any dangly moving wire is just waiting to break, so I'll take the bulletproof design of the Polly heaters and live with some short lived overshoot. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Mind reading (and fortune telling) are what would be needed to get this to work perfectly. I need to stop sending heat to the cartridges about 2 minutes before before you start to slow to a stop, otherwise the heat overshoots. There is a lot of latency in the system. This is oddly enough, much like firing a coal-fired steam locomotive. The fireman had to anticipate grades and stops so that he could build the fire up approaching grades to ensure adequate steam, and allow the fire to die down approaching a station to avoid unnecessarily lifting the relief valves. I guess you could install a grip heater controller for the passenger and assign them this responsibility.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
With GPS tracking and recall of previously taken routes and traffic patterns during that time of day, you could get pretty close. Waze is already doing this with routing. Technology will probably do this eventually for other control systems... use this post as prior art to screw up somebodies patent litigation. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Bill, I still really like having the controller in the handle bar. Every one that has seen it loves it. I should send you my PIC for the latest version of code for the in bar type. I LOVE my setup. | ||
| Motorfish |
I bought one of these. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=160 596691384&cmd=VIDESC Somebody on ADV used one successfully. I want to mount the pot (knob) by the speedo somewhere and try to put the pc board under the fairing maybe in a smaller box. I have not really looked into the project yet, as I had bigger problems (engine) to worry about recently. | ||
| Jstav2012 |
Cool design. If you are planning on PWM'ing for variable heat control, You may need a FET driver, depending on the carrier frequency. I hope you use a bunch of PICs! I have a vested interest... | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Jason, No JFET needed so far, I've had one of Bill's earlier versions on for almost two years. Still works perfectly. | ||
| Dave186 |
motorfish, I bought 2 of those units off ebay. Tried several times to get it to work with no luck, seemed to be all or nothing. Still have the other one, maybe I will mess with it again when it gets cold. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks! Blue, the code is probably pretty good, what you need to do is move the thermistor off the controller board and get it on a wire and up against the inside of the bars, about an inch inboard of the heater. Closer to the heater will make it run cooler, further will make it run hotter. I just put it up against a wad of insulation and wedge it in there. The right MOSFET was difficult to source, but it's out there. I needed one that would saturate off a PIC output in order to avoid using another transistor. This application needs a carrier frequencey of "1", so we aren't pushing bandwidth. Not all the part numbers on that schematic are exactly right, some were just what my CAD software had that would have the right symbol and pinout. I love the PIC's. Perfect balance of "simple yet powerful", and I love programming them in C. That ebay dimmer looks fine electrically (though probably not weatherproof), but that price is insane. $4 with free shipping, which has to be $3 at least. There is more than $1 of raw material in there, not to mention handling costs, so something seems whacked out with that. Even if these were "free surplus" from some other scrapped project, the price seems too low. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and Jason, I admit I am trying to optimize my code so I can use a PIC18F1220 instead of a PIC18F2550, just to screw you out of $2 per unit I build. (Odds are I won't make it though, so your kids will still eat. ). | ||
| Motorfish |
Yeah, Reep, I think I paid $6 for the one I have. I have not tried it yet. I'm not saying its better than your controller, just a cheap alternative. As you know it would need some messing with to make it right. I have a set of Polly Heaters, still in the box. Maybe I'll try and bench test it first, because, as usual, you get what you pay for! I'm interested in your design. | ||
| Jstav2012 |
Hi Reep, if you can't fit your code into the 1220's flash, then you can bump up to the 1320. It is pin-compatible, but has twice as much program space. I hope you are using MPLAB X and the XC8 compiler! Thanks for using Microchip | ||
| Desert_bird |
This is all awesome . . . . but it's waay over my head, and more than I want to get into. WTF is MOSFET? bump up to 1320? I feel like the kid who just woke up in chemistry class when he was asked for a solution.  Would you indulge my ignorance, and chime in on the first question: Is there any techical problem with splicing two-level pads into the existing lines and switch, wrapping them on the existing grips and just pulling new stretchy grips over them? DB | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sorry for inducing a tangent Desert Bird. Electrically, you can probably splice two pads in fine. The current will automatically adjust due to the resistance. Obviously, you would need "two setting" pads, which will have two hot and one ground lead, if you want to keep the "hi/low" capabilties of the switch. If they are just one level pads, then you would only have one setting and just hook up one wire (but make sure you use the same wire on both sides. The big problem you are going to have is the splice. The throttle side grip wire is always a problem for heated grips because it dangles and wiggles... its just a matter of time until it breaks. A joint that moves will break even sooner. So figure out how to do it such that the joint will never move. Here is what we were talking about at the most simple level... https://www.denniskirk.com/polly/hot-hands.p3916.p rd/3916.sku These are cartridges that go inside the bars and never move. That model has both high and low setting. So put those in the bars (you will need to run wires through the bars) and hook them up to your existing hi/low switch. Then put on proper normal motorcycle grips (not the hard ones they have to use for the heated grips). Maybe sell the remaining working heated grip on ebay for what you paid for the whole Polly setup. Later, when I get "version 8" done, you can wire that into this setup easily if you want an actual thermostat to dynamically control the heat (and you probably will). | ||
| Desert_bird |
Fantastic Bill. Thanks for that input and please continue on. Google Search is an ignorant man's friend  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and for the record, a "MOSFET" is a switch that lets a little voltage on one pin control a bunch of current going through two other pins. Like a relay, but without any mechanical parts, and it can turn on and off faster. A PIC18F1220 is a chip made by, well, Jason, that is a brilliant little device. Half the size of my thumb, and it can measure input voltages, and output voltages, on demand. So I can write a program that reads the bikes voltage on one pin, and the ambient temperature on another pin, and then decide what it thinks it should do to turn the MOSFET on or off as a result. The PIC is smart enough to be quite fancy in it's decision making... doing three different calculus problems about 10 times a second to decide what is the right thing to do. Which just happens to turn out to be necessary to try and do an adequate job of regulating temperature for heated grips. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Thanks for the explanation. And by the way, i'm sold on the concept. This is what makes this forum rock. DB | ||
| Bluzm2 |
MOSFET stands for,, ya ready??? Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor. Aren't you glad you asked? The completely automatic mode of Bills heater controller is what is so neat. They just work. Period. When it's cool out, they kick on a little, when it's cooler, a bit more. When it's cold, full on baby! Brad | ||
| Motorfish |
Sooo, are these beautiful controllers available? | ||
| Reepicheep |
This thread got me motivate to start poking at them again. I had a computer upgrade between the old version and this new version, so I will have to recreate the whole development environment for both hardware and software... so it's probably easier for me to just go forward with the new rev rather than trying to recreate the old rev. I had a big specialty manufacturer interested in the design, but given the economy tanking, and the packaging problems I was struggling with, it didn't work out. When the new rev is done I'll probably build a few more and make a few available. If anyone here is positioned to fully develop the packaging and manufacturing, I'll license the design (without unrealistic expectations for how much I make... this isn't my career, its a hobby I would like to loose less money on ). |
