| Author | Message | ||
     Skifastbadly |
Doing my usual visual inspection yesterday and I saw some grease on the left side rear bearing, it looks like this here:  So, does that look like impending bearing failure or am I just being paranoid? Not that those two things are mutually exclusive. I know I should pull the wheel off, and check for rotational ease, but frankly, it's a lot easier to sit on my ass and ask strangers on the internet. Also, I have some questions about my finances, health, love life, and what *exactly* is meant by 'binge drinking'. Thanks | ||
| Debueller |
Looks suspisious........ I have found a good way to check your bearings is to remove the rear wheel and stick the end of the the axel into one bearing at a time to give you lots of leverage to feel for roughness and play. They should be easy to get and rather inexpensive. (6006) If you have problems with getting a new set, let me know. I have a new set on the shelf. (I'm about 40 miles from you) As for your other questions, My track record shows I'm not qualified to answer on those topics....... | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Debueller, I am grateful for your generous offer but I already have a spare set in my tool kit. Don't leave home without 'em. | ||
| Froggy |
Unfortunately the really isn't always visual warning of a failure. I had mine fail 300 miles into a trip when I checked them the morning I left. They looked fine till the moment they spat the bearings out. Yours do appear to be rusting, mine have developed slight rust over time but nothing ever that orange looking. | ||
| Ulynut |
Change it now. Sitting on the side of the road sucks big time. | ||
| Motorfish |
Renting a U-haul 300 miles from home sucks too. Change them, mine had a whole lot of that orange splooge all over the disc. When I tried to roll down the U-haul ramp backwards, alone, I fell over in my driveway (doh!) and about a cup of that rust water came out. Change them. | ||
| Ourdee |
Park the bike and change them. I got 50 miles. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Paranoid. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Here's an idea. Pull the rear wheel off, and see if the bearings are smooth, or notchy. That will tell you a whole lot more than internet speculation will. I have 18,000+ miles on a set of OEM black seal bearings. All weather, all conditions, proper tire changes, and no issues. I've had a '10 wheel sitting on my dining room floor for a couple months now, but just haven't felt the need to install it. I bought it "before they're all gone", so to speak, and can't decide if I'll use it, or the OEM wheel, at my next tire change. It's just....so....CLEAN. It'll look horrible on my bike like that! | ||
| Tootal |
Ok Rat, here's the plan. You ship Ski your new wheel and he can mount it and use it while he changes the bearings in his old wheel. By that time it will look like it was rode wet and put away hard. Then he can put the original wheel back on and send you a matching wheel for your Ratbike! We just need to work together on this. | ||
| Jomartijr |
My suggestion FWIW is to pull the wheel do the aforementioned rotational feel check then remove the bearing seals for a visual confirmation. Grease condition should provide some additional useful info. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Time to work on your priorities, replace your rear wheel bearings, work hard at your binge drinking so you can improve your love life. Maybe not in that order.   | ||
| Mnrider |
Looks to be some rusty splooge coming out. Install some new bearings and drill the holes in the hub. Spend your money on binge drinking then you won't have to worry about your health or love life. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Yeah, so I pulled the wheel today. I turned both bearings by hand. The right side turned smoothly, the left also turned *almost* as smoothly but there was a bit of crunchy frog noise. Figuring that I'd probably be replacing the bearing anyway, I pulled off the *red* seal and underneath it the bearings appeared to be structurally sound, but surrounded in a brownish peanut butter/ hersey's syrup goo. It's clear that rusty water's gotten into there, and the crunchy frog noise probably indicates a level of damage to the bearings or other parts that are invisible to my aging eyeballs. Fortunately, I have a set of bearings that I bought anticipating this very thing and will have them installed tomorrow if I can find a shop open. There's a bike shop not too far from my house that works on Yamahas and Hondas. Is there any reason to suppose if I provide them with the wheel and the bearings they couldn't easily do this? I mean, it's not something that would require special Buell technician training, I assume. | ||
| Dfishman |
"I have a set of bearings that I bought anticipating this very thing and will have them installed tomorrow if I can find a shop open."I too did this.In '06 when I bought my Uly I bought a set of bearings & put them under the seat.So far not needed,but I have popped the seals every tire change & cleaned/regreased. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Here's a closeup. Pretty gruesome, eh?  | ||
| Ulynut |
You pack your bearings with peanut butter?! | ||
| Motorbike |
I mean, it's not something that would require special Buell technician training, I assume. No, it doesn't require special Buell training but it does require the knowledge of how to properly install a ball bearing. If the technician even mentions a hammer, turn and run. You cannot install these bearings properly with a socket and hammer. 1.) Install the rotor side bearing first. Press it all the way in until the OUTER RACE seats on the aluminum. 2.) Set the bearing spacer in place. (Don't forget this step!) 3.) This is probably the most critical step. Press the sprocket side bearing in until the INNER RACE seats on the spacer. The trick here is that both races on the rotor side bearing must be supported so they are on the same plane, or even with each other. When you press the sprocket side bearing in, you must also press on both races at the same time so they are on the same plane. When the sprocket side bearing is installed properly, the outer race may not quite seat on the ridge in the hub. If you press this bearing in until the outer race is seated, there will be lateral pressure on the bearings and you will be doing all of this again, sooner than you care to. When you install the wheel on the bike, make sure you follow the proper procedure for torquing the axle too. Good luck on all of this. | ||
| Ronmold |
Laying in the middle of the road sucks worse! Change 'em out and drill that vent hole like Mnrider said.. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Wow! nice catch. better to find it this way. I also got lucky with my failure. I heard a weird click when I was pulling the bike backwards out of the garage. I'll do a visual on my bikes this morning. | ||
| Motorbike |
When the bearing failed on my 08 XT, I had done a visual check earlier that day, before I took off. Everything looked just fine, no rust except for a little on the bare metal edge of the outer race. It was like that when I bought this bike brand new. Oh, by the way, before anyone flames me for being so fussy about installing these bearings properly, I was referring to the fact that your bike is at home in the garage and you have time to do it right. But, if you are out in the middle of Nebraska and all that you can find is a hammer and socket, by all means have at it. Do what you gotta do to get home, I would. Thanks! | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Now that we know the symptom, let's think about the cause. And whether it can be mitigated. The wisdom of the collective indicates that this is the result of water getting into the bearings from inside the hub. Which wouldn't surprise me a whit, since I live in WA state and if I'm not going to ride in the rain I'm not going to ride much. The drilling of the hub makes some sense in that it would allow the water to escape, but it seems like you'd need a bunch of holes to properly do this if you're relying in gravity, since it would be hard to predict the orientation. Unless, of course, the centrifugal force while riding helped out here. What I don't fully understand is how the 2010 wheel would prevent this. Unless the larger bearings somehow keep water out of the hub in the first place. Oh, engineers, where art thou? | ||
| Motorbike |
The 2010 wheel uses an additional, separate seal outside of the bearing. I'm counting on those to keep water out. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/653516.html?1317306927 | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Moto, great link, thanks. In one of your photos, you compare the 08 and 10 axles. Aren't they the same? | ||
| Uly_man |
"The 2010 wheel uses an additional, separate seal outside of the bearing." It does and the bearings are also bigger. The bearings on anything MUST always pressed in correctly. The Buell bearings have seals on both sides and I dought water ingress is anything due to that. They are of a standard type so whats the problem. Its a well known fact that the factory torque settings for this bike are too high and I think they have done it with the wheels as well. They have just done my 2010 bike fronts and it only had 2500 miles on it. THREE THINGS? You will not find anything wrong, even with the wheel off the ground, with the fronts but the handling will go off at about 10k. They will not be unsafe though. Once you have the wheel off the bike you will feel the slight wear in the bearings and thats enough to give a strange steering problem. Trust me I know. The rears will be fine unless you see rust and/ or wheel slap in which case it is dangerous then change them ASAP. If you change any wheel bearings change the spacers as well and do not torque them up as hard as Buell say. | ||
| Motorbike |
Skifastbadly, no, the axles are different. Look at the machined surface on each end that fits into the bearing inner race. It is longer on the black 2010 axle. This allows for the 2 bearings on the sprocket side. Also, the new, additional seal rides on the axle on the sprocket side. On the rotor side, there is an additional narrow spacer that the left seal rides on that is installed after sliding the axle in. The pre 2010 setup did not have this extra spacer but it is a very important part and it must not be left out. (Message edited by motorbike on November 21, 2011) (Message edited by motorbike on November 21, 2011) | ||
| Nopork |
Uly man, what torque specs do you recommend for both the front and rear? | ||
| Motorfish |
A lot of people spread a light coating never-seize on the outside of the bearing, to prevent water entering. It also stops the rust on the outer race. This is mentioned in a lot of the bearing threads. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I have absolutely no reason to believe that there is anything wrong with the Buell axle torque or axle torquing procedure. There is nothing about a 50ft-lb torque spec that will cause any inelastic deformation of the spacer tube, or the misaligning of the inner races of the bearings relative to the outer races in a wheel that has the bearings properly installed. Proper preload on the inner race stackup is the right thing for proper bearing operation. You don't need to change the inner spacer tube if it is still within spec. But if you find them out of spec, or if you bugger the end of the tube when you remove the bearings, by all means do it. Proper lengths/tolerances can be found in the thread here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/474350.html#POST1504377 I'm not saying there aren't bearing issues on the pre-2010 wheels, there have been plenty of premature failures. Mine haven't had any issues at all at 22.5K miles, but I just elected to put on the 2010 wheel at the tire swap I just performed. No use tempting fate. However, the bearings in the original wheel were still fine. Al | ||
| Skifastbadly |
So the new bearings are in, these have the black seals. I've heard those were supposed to better, is there any anecdotal evidence of this being true? | ||
| Xb9er |
Unfortunately the really isn't always visual warning of a failure. I had mine fail 300 miles into a trip when I checked them the morning I left. They looked fine till the moment they spat the bearings out. Froggy, do you think that is because you had about 400lbs of gear strapped to your bike? hehe | ||
| Bobbuell1961 |
"You will not find anything wrong, even with the wheel off the ground, with the fronts but the handling will go off at about 10k. " I have 55k+ and never replaced the front bearings, recently the handling was a bit off, put a new set of sneakers on it's good as gold. |
