| Author | Message | ||
     Eulysses |
I should probably wait to write this. I am over in Great Falls MT gutting our family home of 50 years of all its memories. Dad is gone and Mom is not coming home. A prolific father who had me hunting on motorcycles in '62 when I was 12, racing at the scramble tracks with Evel Kneivel (serious)and living a life of adventure in the mountains. Eight kids all active so I am buried in stuff. All that to say I take my Uly to the Harley dealer here because the service writer is a sport bike man (1125R) and empathizes. Also I have no time to put on the cooling kit or my XB9 gear reduction (it's 12:30 AM right now). He asks if I had the flash and I said I did as he writes me up. I said I wished I could unflash it. He said no problem...they have all the flashes ever made including stock. WHAT? Yes I said...get that thing off my bike. No problem. Will let you all know... | ||
| Surfsofa |
Interesting. I've fitted the kit but held off on the ECU update because I didn't like what I was reading about the fan patterns. But also read on here lately that the fan will come on when you switch off if the engine is too hot, which was reassuring me and edging me towards getting it done. Out of curiosity, what makes you so anti the update? | ||
| Ratbuell |
First off, sorry for your loss. I can't imagine (and am not looking forward to it) what that kind of housecleaning is like. On the bike...I suspect your service writer is misinformed or doesn't realize you can't "back-flash". Keep us posted. | ||
| Blackdog |
Sorry to hear of your loss. My wife's dad just passed and we are in the process of cleaning up the mess that he left. He lived in a broken down trailer on an island in the Columbia river. He never spent a dime on his property, than while cleaning we found thousands of dollars under the carpets. I just installed the comfort kit and had it reflashed. I'm very happy with it this way. I was surprized to find that after 10 miles of first gear riding that the fan WILL come on after shutdown. | ||
| Jetjock |
I've even found the new flash will run the fan with extended slow riding in 50F temps. Fan runs on shut down sometimes too. I'm happy with it so far | ||
| Buellerxt |
I feel for you, George. I've been through that myself. Sorry, Man. As for the re-flash, I visited my dealer today and asked them to call Harley Tech Services to confirm that 'the only' change on the re-flash is the fan operation. He spoke with them, asked if anything else is effected, and asked if it is irreversible. Tech Services says: The ONLY change is in fan operation, NOTHING else is effected, and the re-flash is irreversible 'by the dealer', BUT that if the ecm is removed and sent to Harley they can do it. I'm planning to get it in the next couple of weeks. | ||
| Reddogalberta |
This is my first spring with my Buell and riding has been limited (snow again last night on the ground this morning). My brief experience so far is that in 60ish F temperatures the fan kicked on virtually every time I parked. What the heck is it going to do in the height of summer temperatures? I took delivery of the machine brand new just before Christmas. Do dealers perform these flash upgrades as a matter of standard procedure before initial delivery if an upgrade is available? | ||
| Alchemy |
Red, On 2008 the flash would only be done if the comfort kit is installed as I understand it. I think 2006 and 2007 do not get a reflash. You can install the comfort kit without the reflash I believe. The fan running at key off will add a little cooling at the time the oil has stopped circulating. If the engine is hot this is probably a good thing even if a little annoying. Someone with a 2008 with the comfort kit should be able to give you more accurate information. | ||
| Mattmcc00 |
I have a 2008, that I installed a comfort kit rode it a while like that, then flashed it. I can say that I am VERY pleased with the results, the new flash is great for reducing the temp on the engine and therefore of the frame. From documentation that came with the flash and comfort kit: Only change with the new flash is that it now adds engine speed to the logic behind managing the fan instead of just temp sensor. I talk about my new kit more in my thread with pics of new comfort kit. | ||
| Eulysses |
Update: the dealer flashed the latest 09 flash update which overoad (?) the comfort kit flash. You can have the comfort kit flash without the kit. I know the 06 and 07 guys get a lot less fan run time after the actual kit is installed. That means the kit helps cool the bike. I also know the fan quits coming on at stops AFTER the flash is done...which bugged me. I did find that it WILL come on at stop if the motor is hot (like Blackdog noted) so I am not as worried about its antics like I was. What was bugging me most AFTER the flash was a perceived loss of grunt. Made it feel more like a Honda than a Harley. Anybody else notice that? So, it is back to the latest 09 flash and I will eventually find out which item # that is...they did not write it down this time. We will see...I like the fan on at the light...I like it cooled as much as possible. After all this dialogue about the cooling kit update and as long as it really is ok I have no issue about it. Got the actual kit on now...and the XB9 reduction. Then it snowed. Have to leave it in Great Falls and head back to Mount Vernon WA for biz and back here end of May. Hope to get a ride in to Custer Battlefield and shoot some gophers (therapy). Thank you all for condolences...it is the end of an era and a reminder that we are a wisp and a vapor in this life and must consider the issues of eternity. | ||
| Buellerxt |
I don't understand, George. Is the flash you got a 'later' flash than the Comfort Kit flash? If so, why would Buell change the fan operation with the Comfort Kit flash and then change it back on a later flash? Ths. | ||
| Itileman |
09 flashed with kit install and no change in grunt. Will run after shut down if it's hot. Will also run at low idle if it's hot. I'm OK with it. Eulysses - my condolences from Billings. | ||
| Eulysses |
Bueller...not a "later" flash than the comfort kit but just the latest 09 flashes. According to the service writer in Great Falls Harley keeps updating flashes per machine. Same number but with an A or B or C as it were. So he just used the latest 09 X flash update. Not the Cooling Kit flash...just the latest flash update as he explained it. I have not ridden it. Too wacked with all this family stuff and it snowed. A lot! I am part of the negativity on the cooling fan flash and just want to say that I am sure it is fine engineering and won't hurt our bikes. Not sure it is any more than a vanity upgrade for stop signs to stop all that fan whining. Now the kit itself...that is a winner. I just learned all this from you guys...reading this forum! Anybody else notice a smoother, more refined engine (less grunt) after the flash? | ||
| Idaho_buelly |
No,to me no change in performance,just the fan.. | ||
| Ratbuell |
At the risk of having to do one of these  , I can GUARANTEE there is no performance difference in the comfort kit flash versus the non-CK flash. The ONLY thing that changes is FAN LOGIC. Non-kit: fan references cylinder head temp. Kit flash: fan references BOTH head temp sensor and vehicle speed. That's it. No map changes. No spark changes. No fuel changes. No TPS changes. No AIS changes. Sometimes smoother IS faster, it just doesn't feel like it because there's no peaks and dips to "reference". My CR is a prime example - it doesn't feel all that fast, till I look down and I'm bopping along, no drama, at 100+. Feels like 50. | ||
| Billyo |
I went by my local H-D dealer yesterday and talked to the service manager (the whole dealership is very Buell-friendly) and will try to make it there for the flash if I can get out of work early one night this week. I've put weatherstripping between the seat and frame on both sides to keep the hot air from blowing straight on my legs and still the frame gets so hot I need to hang one leg or the other out every couple minutes. Maybe keeping the air from blowing on me is just trapping it inside the frame. Supposedly if the fan isn't running it merely blocks the flow of air. After I got home yesterday it was two hours before I could put my hand on the frame and hold it there!---and that was up at the neck! | ||
| Jim_williams |
All this talk confuses me even more. I feel like we're discussing whether or not to vaccinate our children  So, we can all agree that the purpose of the fan is to keep the motor/bike in general cool. Right? Forget about what people want the fan to do and rather what is best for the bike. My 09, pre CK parts, would get so hot I couldn't touch the frame with gloved hand. Post CK parts, it is cool while running consistently and fan does not run at all. Slow running around town, frame gets hot, and fan might come on if going slow long enough. Back up to freeway speeds and it cools down very fast. Always runs at shut down. Seems this is ideal. The fan is running when it needs to, and not when it doesn't need to. It seems to me that having it run always above Xmph is just putting unnecessary wear on the fan itself. Seems very arbitrary. Doesn't make too much sense to me. Nice to know we can swap back though. If I can confirm this with my dealer, I might do the flash just to see the difference and go with what seems best to me. We chose to vaccinate our kids too (Message edited by jim_williams on May 02, 2010)  (Message edited by jim_williams on May 02, 2010) (Message edited by jim_williams on May 02, 2010) | ||
| Buellerxt |
If you guys can bare with me a bit, I'm still confused by the different posts. It is my understanding that the Comfort Kit re-flash, if it is called that, changes NOTHING but fan logic. I accept that and would(will) get the re-flash this week if it is that simple. However now I read about a re-flash that came 'after' the Comfort Kit re-flash! A 'newer' re-flash? If there is such an animal what is it called, numbered, etc.? What does it do that is different than the Comfort Kit re-flash? If it exists, it must do something different or it wouldn't have been put out. Thanks guys. I'm just trying to be sure before deciding. | ||
| Chuck241 |
I have a 2008 XB12X that I bought from a dealer with 525 miles on it. Rode a couple hundred miles took the bike back to the dealer for a recall on the clutch cable clip. Had 1000 mile service performed at this time they installed the latest ecm update. Cooling fan runs all the time speed is above 15mph, and shuts down at speeds less then 15mph. what can be done. | ||
| Blk_uly |
Mine is the same way 08 XB12X. However if left idling for 5-7 mins. the fan will kick on low and stay on until I'm moving above 15mph. And the frame is way cooler all the time. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Blk_uly, you have both the Comfort Kit hardware and the Comfort Kit re-flash? Did you notice 'any' change in bike performance, other than the fan, after the re-flash? Ths. | ||
| Blk_uly |
I have only the flash, no hardware I have not noticed any change in performance (Message edited by blk_uly on May 02, 2010) | ||
| Froggy |
Anyone here with a comfort kit flash mind sending me a copy of the EEPROM? Edit: I actually could use a few 08+ EEPROMs just for studying. (Message edited by froggy on May 02, 2010) | ||
| Mesozoic |
I've datalogged my '08 with both the BUEYD and BUE2D cooling fan strategies. Without a doubt, the new strategy keeps the engine temperature down much better than before. Peak temperature seems to be about 5 degrees cooler as well. | ||
| Ratbuell |
So, who's played with / datalogged both DDFI2 and DDFI3? I know it can't be done and I'm not arguing that...just wondering why the logic can't be put into a DDFI2 like my '06? Does the DDFI2 system not 'see' vehicle speed in the ECM? That's the only thing I could think of.... Wish I could get 5 degrees cooler operating temps on my '06...guess I'll just have to pull some timing out for summer (now that I have a stock exhaust, I can hear an occasional ping). | ||
| Buellerxt |
Mesozoic' "I've datalogged my '08 with both the BUEYD and BUE2D cooling fan strategies. Without a doubt, the new strategy keeps the engine temperature down much better than before. Peak temperature seems to be about 5 degrees cooler as well". Is the BUEYD strategy the one on stock 08's? Is the BUE2D strategy the one on the 'Cooling Kit re-flash'? If so, does the cooling kit re-flash keep the motor cooler than the stock 08' strategy, even at stops or when turned off? If so, the continuous running when greater than 15mph must have lasting benefits. If so, cool. If my understanding of your post is correct how did you do it? A LOT of if's, huh!  Thanks | ||
| Jim_sb |
I have a 2006 Ulysses (bought Sep. 2005). I installed the Comfort Kit a few months ago (myself) and therefore no "re-flash" was done. The bike now runs much cooler and the fan runs much less often. It still comes on when/if the bike is hot. If there's a point in getting a re-flash done I don't see it. Bike seems happy and I've got less fan noise to deal with. | ||
| Mesozoic |
I have no idea what a "Comfort Kit" is. Must be some kind of Ulysses thing. I ride a 2008 XB12Ss Lightning. My bike has seen 3 reflashes from the dealership, the last one was a BUEYD from March 2008. The BUE2D is dated November 2009. You can datalog DDFI-3 using EcmSpy. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Jim_sb- this reflash only applies to 2008/2009 models. Comes stock on the 2010's; not available for earlier Ulys. | ||
| Eulysses |
I think Jim_sb's point is well taken. The comfort kit (Mesozoac-plastic scoop and pieces to direct more air to rear head) by itself is demonstrably more effective in cooling the bike without the ECM update. The ECM update in my opinion may or may not contribute to additional cooling...I suspect not...but is a vanity item so your fan is not on at most stop lights when you are trying to look cool on an a Big Bird. I took the Uly home in another snow flurry today...I tell ya...FREEZING...and was too cold to notice anything. Loved the XB9 gearing change though! Felt like a big dual sport...not a cafe' racer. Will post later on fan response to whatever it was they flashed me with. |
