| Author | Message | ||
     Xb12xmike |
I went to dealer to check my rear bearings and front rotor pulsing....dealer told me my bearings were fine, just rusty water spider marks on the outside. If it was grease they would have been replaced. But..they found my front wheel and brake was out .015 and thats why it's pulsing. And I was told they wont cover it. OK,.. so it fell over a couple times... but were all light falls into soft dirt or grass. $672.00 for new wheel and rotor installed. (not gonna happen) They said they didn't need to test ride it because it was out .015 and would pulse all the time... but it does'nt. Why doesn't it pulse when I ride? It only pulses when I brake?? The slower I go ... the bigger the pulse. When braking: Crawling up to a stop sign under 10 mph is terrible. Like a bucking horse,...At speed its more of a quick vibration. I only use my front brake in emergencies, I use rear brake & engine combo for now. then..to top it off....my Girlfriend says "just let them repossess it" and save ur money. (Message edited by xb12xmike on June 02, 2009) | ||
| Arcticktm |
If your rotor or its mountings on the wheel is bent, it would act just as you describe. The brake caliper can float side to side, and as the bent rotor passes the brake pads, it will just re-center the caliper, and/or knock the pads back in the caliper. As soon as you hit the brake lever, you pressurize the pads against the rotor, so the floating can no longer occur, since you are squeezing the rotor from both sides. You then feel the pulse. You often notice it more at low speeds, because the extra drag in the bent areas has a more pronounced effect when you are going slow (just like power brakes can feel touchy at slow speeds, but not at higher speeds). Sorry they won't cover it. I had a similar experience when my clutch failed under warranty, and had to fix it myself. Did they actually measure wheel runout, or just rotor runout? Might be only one or the other that is bent, and not both. Maybe look for any XB wheel on the net instead of buying from dealer? | ||
| Etennuly |
First, the rear bearings when trailing rust are soon to fail. The water in the hub is running through them and out the seals leaving the rust trails. The rust is from the bearing races and balls rusting. The seals can be picked out with a safety pin to prove it. The front rotor problem is likely mostly caused from the front brake pads, if you have the stock ones still in it. These are not usually covered under warranty(but what do I know). Most have switched to Lyndall Gold pads or something from EBC. This can be proved by cleaning the pads and rotor surface with brake cleaner on a rag. Do not get it on the wheel, it melts the powder coat. Try this, if it works it will be good for a couple hundred miles then it will start doing it again. If so replacing the pads will usually fix most of it. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Did they actually measure wheel runout, or just rotor runout? Might be only one or the other that is bent, and not both. They said they checked wheel and rotor and both were .015 out. I still just dont understand why this is pulsing so badly only when I use the brake and not when cruising along. It rides smooth as butter up to 90mph. Maybe look for any XB wheel on the net instead of buying from dealer? good idea... I guess I am gonna have to start buying more tools. My warranty is for 6 more months. I might as well figure it's useless (the warranty) they gonna try and use my few dirt drops to be he cause of all my future repairs. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Etennuly, Yea I did clean the rotor a few weeks ago... it did seem better but didnt last long at all, my cleaning prob wasnt the greatest. and yes ..they are still the original pads. (8k) I raised the bike and spun the wheel and it seemed to hit one spot like it was warped. I do have Lyndall Golds for the front but have yet to install them. Is my front wheel being out .015 that bad?? Should I worry about that? I mean.. i dont feel any pulsing or vib at speed. | ||
| Rwven |
That both would be out 15 thou sounds kinda fishy to me. A blow that would knock the wheel out .015 would not also do the same to the rotor as they are not ridgidly attached. Plus they are of different diameters so a .015 deflection of the rim would be closer to .013 on the rotor. Get it checked independently. I'm at work with no access to my shop manual, but wheel and rotor runout specs are listed there. | ||
| Etennuly |
My bike pulsed so bad for a while I was afraid to use the front brake. When I cleaned the rotor I wiped both sides with a scotch brite pad while spraying brake cleaner on it. Then I took the outer part of the caliper off and cleaned the pads proper. It would be great for a couple hundred miles. These rotors are of the floating type. If they measured it on the rim they would have a difficult time getting accurate measurements. The only true way is to remove the rotor to lay it on a machinist table. If it is grabbing in one spot when you turn the wheel by hand that could indicate out of spec or there may be dirt of debris in the floater mechanism/bolt holes where springs and little plastic clips reside. I would remove the rotor clean the hardware and rim real well, put it back together with the Lyndalls and break them in proper. Braking very hard to a stop first from 10 mph, then 20 mph, then from 30 mph(you should be getting a little smoke now) then from 40 mph, and last from 50mph where it should have the rotor totally blue and smokin'! Those wheel bearings are a big concern if there is rust trailing out of them. That little seal can be picked out and returned with the rim still on the bike. Wipe it down with some cleaner before removing. If you don't see clean blue grease, instead you see brown rusty grease you need to see if warranty will cover the bearing failure. Sometimes they are considered wear items. But if they are rusty in the area where the grease should be clean it is time to get new ones in there before it causes a potentially expensive failure. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
S100 polishing soap on the rotor every 200 miles or so - I thought changing to Lyndal Gold pads would completely cure the pulsating F. brake - but it didn't, for me at least. What amazes me, is that my bike has less than 1/3 of the parts of my car and yet requires ten times the miantanence...go figure. . | ||
| Xb12xmike |
(I think i feel an ulcer coming on) Think I should see another dealer? Maybe they can do something with the warranty? Or should I just kiss off the warranty all together and buy the parts and do it myself. At which point, I'd prob do all future service myself. 60 buks today, same for next dealer to check it, thats just about the rotor cost. Argh. (yep.. definitely feel an ulcer coming on) PS: Can I buy a new screws/springs for the rotor without the Rotor??} (service manual says to use new ones allways) Thanks mike (Message edited by xb12xmike on June 02, 2009) | ||
| Mark_weiss |
This is key:
Not just difficult, but not possible. The rotor can float on its mounts enough that there's really no way to accurately measure flatness. On older, wide contact, brake rotors you could measure sectors using a feeler gauge and a straight edge, but that method really won't work well with a mounted brake halo (disc) as used on Buells. Fifteen thou. of runout is very unlikely to produce any wobble through the tire. I've raced without difficulty on wheels more out of whack than that. A warped or kinked disc/halo is a different story. Lighter braking and lower speed will generally amplify the effect. High brake pressures will often somewhat straighten out a warped surface. Find a machine shop and have them check for flatness with a surface block. If you've got a REALLY good frame guy around (have one here), the halo may be salvageable. Mark in Arizona (Message edited by mark_weiss on June 02, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
My Uly had its rotor replaced under warranty no questions asked. 10k miles. | ||
| Xbimmer |
PS: Can I buy a new screws/springs for the rotor without the Rotor?? American Sport Bike http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-c atshow/XB12Xbrakes.html | ||
| Xb12xmike |
How about this plan: I could try cleaning the rotor again and also the bolts/springs, (I have been off road with it a few times and stuck in mudd) I have 9064 pads (Braking CM55) from american sportbike ready to install for it. If that works out,.. I will pick up new bolts/springs for the rotor (asap). If not..then I will pick up a new Rotor kit. I cant afford a new wheel. I do not feel ANY vibration unless I pull the brake... then...coming to a stop, it feels like I am on a bucking bull. Absolutely NO pulsing or bad vibs when coasting to a stop and nothing at speed. But, I still may go to another dealer in the next couple days and hopefully they WILL test ride it for me. At least I'll have a 2nd opinion. Using just engine and rear brake isnt so bad! (Message edited by xb12xmike on June 02, 2009) | ||
| Tootal |
Does your wheel have any damage showing? To knock a cast wheel out .015" would have to have some damage showing. If the rotor is warped it is a warranty item, my was replaced along with the pads no charge. If the wheel is really out then they should replace it too, unless you can see damage. Get a second opinion and call Buell customer service, they are great to work with, if your nice to them! | ||
| Jblausey |
I had the same exact issues you have now. It turned out to be only the rotor and not the wheel. Rotor was replaced under warranty. I had replaced pads and done all the cleaning before that with only short periods of smooth braking. There is no way to bend the wheel and rotor the same amount. The two are not bolted together as the rotor "floats" on the springs. You may bend one or the other but the not both. If they won't replace under warranty go to another dealer. There should be no charge to do check the rotor. If some one is charging you to check it you need another dealer. If all else fails just get a new one from American Sport Bike. The new rotor comes with the mounting kit so for $150 you will be done and back on the road without pulsating. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
There is no damage on the wheel at all. ----------- My last trip to the woods the bike did fall over, but was it on dirt.. and from standing position. another in mud and I could not lift it back up before 6-7 tries. But it was already pulsing. My worst ever fall was just after I bought it (with about 55 miles on the odometer) in my backyard (all grass) I fell over doing about 6 mph,.. when it fell..the right footpeg hit the dirt and stopped it abruptly causing the rear footpeg frame part to crack,,, i had it welded up from the inside....but that was in jan 08. with 55 miles on the clock, I have 8,000 miles now and it only started pulsing since about 5k miles. Crap... I hope that wasn't it. Here is a link to the pic w/damage showing. The crack still looks the same now,.. except it has been welded from inside. I never finished it up for paint. The crack still shows but its a beautiful weld on inside. http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/1316_200801280 53431_L.jpg So...even though that fall may or may not have been the cause of the warping,.. it may be enough for them NOT to honor the warranty for the rotor or anything else for that matter? I remember telling the tech it was pulsing last time I was there, he test rode it but didn't feel anything then. It wasn't as bad then. Now at 8,000 miles it is horrendous. But I did forget (or didn't worry) about that first incident... Damit. I feel like I am screwed now. Should I even bother about the 2nd opinion? Or should I just save for more tools?  (Message edited by xb12xmike on June 02, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
Don't even worry about that crack. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Ok,.. today I'm not worried..it is what it is. I am going to another dealer, maybe I can also test ride a CR or an Ss and get the gear lock while I am waiting. | ||
| Etennuly |
Tip overs have nothing to do with your front brake problem. You may have mud stuck in a float spring hole though. Weather or not a dealer will warranty it is up to them. I have been through similar problems with a new truck and they proved to me that the brake parts are wear items. Some people wear them out faster than others. In this case and the one I had I call it BS. These bikes have to have a known number of problem front brakes. It seems that Buell steps up and takes care of the ones that the dealers put through as a warranty issue. I don't get the dealer's and MOCO's hit and miss desire to fix things, but my opinion doesn't count for much in that regard. As an experiment, when I painted my front wheel, I reused the rotor installation stuff. That was one year and 10,000 miles ago. Some red lock tight on the bolts, proper torque, and a good cleaning and inspection of the small parts, it hasn't been an issue thus far. | ||
| Arcticktm |
I would not re-use the caliper bolts. To important an item, and it is possible that they are a torque to yield spec (do not have my manual with me here), as more and more bolts are these days (many car caliper bolts and rotor bolts are now). If so, you are yielding the bolt when you tighten it, so you are doing permanent deformation. That is why you replace things like flywheel bolts and cylinder head bolts after 1 use. I highly doubt you front wheel is even bent. A simple fallover like you describe would be unlikely to hurt the wheel, and something hard would have to have hit the rotor. Clean your rotor with brake cleaner and a Scotch Brite pad agressively (not just a rag). That helped mine alot for a time, but it still pulses some under braking. To pulse under braking, but not under normal cruising is to be expected with this type of problem, due to the floating rotor design. Trust us! Your dealer does not seem to want the headache, so you should move on, or (better yet) do it yourself. My opinion is that a Buell owner needs to be able and willing to do the vast majority of their own work. I would never recommend a Buell to someone that expects to never put a wrench to their own bike. I wish I could, but I can't. I like my Uly a lot, but it is more work to properly keep up than any bike I have owned outside of a dirt bike used for racing. | ||
| Froggy |
I never put a wrench to my first Uly as the dealer did all the services, and now my second one I do, and it is nothing but changing fluids once a month or two. Eventually it will need tires, and while the wheel is off I will spend the 30 seconds to make sure the bearings are still good. Nothing complex here. My Suzuki GS500F needed more in 3k miles than both my Buells did in 40k miles. Do you have the 1125XT and aren't telling anyone? | ||
| Mark_weiss |
When cleaning the rotor, it needs to be done with an abrasive (bead blasting is popular). Pulsing on non-warped components is caused by uneven deposition of brake pad material. Part of the braking force is mechanical, from squeezing the disc. Part is adhesive, brake compound 'sticking' to itself. When the deposits on the disc are not even, adhesion will rise and fall, leading to pulsation. Abrasive cleaning is strongly recommended by most brake manufacturers, especially when changing brake compound type. ie. Metallic to ceramic, etc. Mark in Arizona | ||
| Ulynut |
I took mine off and sanded it with 220 grit on a random orbit sander. Twice. Changed the hardware both times at $70.00 each time. Still pulsing. I finally admitted defeat and bought a brand new disc. $152.00 after sales tax with hardware included. I hope this works. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Ok, now this dealer say's the wheel/rotor was in spec (covered under warranty spec or just road worthy spec?? I forget which he meant) Either way thats not good for me,...But when they took it for a test ride.... that changed their minds they called HD and got it approved. Item not in stock so I have to wait 3-5 days but excellent news for me! Ocean County HD ROCKS!! I also got to test ride a RED 1125CR an also got my gear lock!! (I only had 2 words for describing the 1125CR ride: Un_be_freakin_leavable!!) | ||
| Rwven |
Good show, make sure you let everyone know what a bunch of tools Barbs HD is. After all they did try to steal almost 700 dollars from you. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Rwven: Gotta Lovem!! hehe |
