| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Jack- There's one easy way to pack the hub with grease that just occurred to me: pop a Zerk fitting in the hub of the wheel. That'd also make it relatively easy to "adjust" the quantity of grease and it'd make re-lubing of the bearings VERY simple. Anybody willing to drill and tap an 1/8" NPT hole in the hub of their ~$375 wheel to try it? | ||
| Jflaig |
Hugh - The idea of a zerk fitting is good, but you might need to have a relief fitting on the opposite side to know when full and/or over-pressured. We used these on tank hubs, not quite the same centrifugal force, but the idea seems valid. The idea of tapping the hub is too scarey for me though. | ||
| Treadmarks |
182 posts in this thread. Thats alot of good info. I have a tire change coming up and will check them again. Last two changes the bearings felt fine. My concern with the zerks is over pressure that could push on or through the bearing seals. May cause more damage than good. | ||
| Jackbequick |
I don't think I want to try to drill and tap my wheel. It is too pretty. I'll shoot it in with the grease gun and groom it with gloved hands like I did last time. In fact, tomorrow will be the day. I put the packed bearing and seal in on one side, slide the axle through and lay the wheel on a block to hold the axle up and in place. Then I drop the step spacer, shim and spacer tube down over the axle. Then I fill from the bottom up with the grease gun. It goes OK. The little pieces stay where they are when I take the axle out because of the grease. The moment of truth, when I am trying to keep all the pieces lined up and slide the axle through, actually seems to go easier with the grease in there holding things in place and alignment. Unless a bearing or race goes nothing comes out for repacks except the seals and bearings. I like working for me. I never get rushed or second guessed on anything... Jack | ||
| Xbimmer |
This is all great think tanking, and I gotta ask how some of the people who've found a lot of water in wheel hubs at lower mileages get it in there. I've ridden through torrential rains that soaked through my sidecases and riding gear, but no hint of rust in my bearings in almost 50k. How can water unless pressurized directly at the bearings get past outer seals and greased cages and then inner seals and into the hub? Especially the left rear bearing with the inner race shielded by the swingarm? Some have posted the possibility of the wheels being assembled with water in the hubs. I would think Enkei would have better quality control, even in their Chicom facilities, but who knows? When I replace my bearings at 50k, if there's any water in there (even with my currently rust free bearings), I'll think this out. No offense guys, but I don't think I'll fill the hub with grease, although it sounds effective. I regrease my bearings regularly, but the first time I did it I filled the cages and was rewarded with heat-expanded grease-streams pouring out onto my wheel and sprocket and tire... If I find water in there, I would have no problem with drilling a hole or two in the hub to vent it in the future. Might even consider some sort of inert absorbent material to put into the hub also, soak any water up then let it vent out. I like working for me. I never get rushed or second guessed on anything... +1  | ||
| Littlefield |
Has anybody miked the spacer and compared it with the distance between the bearing shoulders in the hub? May be interesting to see the difference. Compressing the spacer the right amount would explain why the rear axle torque is so critical. | ||
| 2_spuds |
Has anybody miked the spacer and compared it with the distance between the bearing shoulders in the hub? May be interesting to see the difference. Compressing the spacer the right amount would explain why the rear axle torque is so critical. I miked two spacers and they were .070" longer than the width of the hub. The reason for the spacers longer length would be to compensate for manufacturing tolerances in the width of the wheel. The service manual instructs you to install the rotor side first so the wheel will be slightly offset to the left,probably to keep the belt away from the raised edge of the pulley. What I didn't see in the sm is what tolerance they want you to use for checking the bearings. I use the the spec for the sportster and other HD's with much larger sealed bearings which is.002" side play. At .002 they say to replace the bearings. Unless you are a machinist or have a seasoned hand you will need a dial indicator to measure .002". The two spacers I tested also collapsed .008- .010" under the stock torque which would preload them even under the stock torque setting. Maybe the two I had missed a heat treatment or something,I don't know. I made one from steel and just change the bearings at each tire change. When installing the second bearing it is critical to stop pressing it in as soon as it touches the spacer,as stated in the sm, or you will be pre loading them. I think the bearings are just undersized. | ||
| Bross |
Posted by: xbimmer "Some have posted the possibility of the wheels being assembled with water in the hubs. I would think Enkei would have better quality control, even in their Chicom facilities, but who knows? When I replace my bearings at 50k, if there's any water in there (even with my currently rust free bearings), I'll think this out." Next guy to find water in his hub, send it off to the CSI lab in Vegas for analysis. I'm sure they could tell you where it came from by some weird micro organism living in it that can only be found in the river running beside the Chicom factory.  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Buell says they need hard evidence? We should all send the our old bearings - that'd be hard evidence. . | ||
| Growl |
I suspect that some bikes get pressure washed at the dealer, in spite of this being a "no-no" | ||
| Littlefield |
I don't understand what locates the rim side to side. If the spacer is 0.07 inches bigger than the distance between the bearing shoulders you'll never pull the bearings up tight onto the shoulders. There is not snap ring or anything holding the bearings into the rim so what keeps the rim from moving side to side? I always assumed the bearings seated against the shoulders. | ||
| Skyclad |
I read several times about folks remembering that somebody with on 08 had a bearing failure. That was me. Mine seemed to have a different problem than most though. The outer race on the pulley side is what failed. I do not remember seeing much in the way of corrosion on mine when the shop showed them to me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I don't understand what locates the rim side to side. If the spacer is 0.07 inches bigger than the distance between the bearing shoulders you'll never pull the bearings up tight onto the shoulders. There is not snap ring or anything holding the bearings into the rim so what keeps the rim from moving side to side? I always assumed the bearings seated against the shoulders. Littlefield- the spacer in question is between the bearings inside the wheel. The outer side of the right side bearing seats against a shoulder on the axle; the axle is firmly clamped into the swingarm on that side by the pinch bolt. The outer side of the left side bearing seats against a boss on the swingarm that the axle threads into. When you torque the axle down, the axle is pressing against the right side bearing, which presses against the spacer, which presses against the left side bearing, which presses against the swingarm boss. Everything is tight and the rim can't move side-to-side. | ||
| Rekrab |
08 Uly, When I replaced the rear tire at 14800 mi. The bearings needed to be replaced. | ||
| Littlefield |
I don't understand what locates the rim side to side. If the spacer is 0.07 inches bigger than the distance between the bearing shoulders you'll never pull the bearings up tight onto the shoulders. There is not snap ring or anything holding the bearings into the rim so what keeps the rim from moving side to side? I always assumed the bearings seated against the shoulders. Littlefield- the spacer in question is between the bearings inside the wheel. The outer side of the right side bearing seats against a shoulder on the axle; the axle is firmly clamped into the swingarm on that side by the pinch bolt. The outer side of the left side bearing seats against a boss on the swingarm that the axle threads into. When you torque the axle down, the axle is pressing against the right side bearing, which presses against the spacer, which presses against the left side bearing, which presses against the swingarm boss. Everything is tight and the rim can't move side-to-side. So do the outer races on both bearings seat on the shoulders in the rim? I understand how the axle and bearings can't move after everything is tightened up. If the spacer is 0.07 inches longer than the distance between the shoulders it's hard to imagine the bearings would pull up against them. If the bearings aren't against the shoulders the rim it seems like the rim would have slop side to side. I'm still missing something. | ||
| Hughlysses |
So do the outer races on both bearings seat on the shoulders in the rim? I understand how the axle and bearings can't move after everything is tightened up. If the spacer is 0.07 inches longer than the distance between the shoulders it's hard to imagine the bearings would pull up against them. If the bearings aren't against the shoulders the rim it seems like the rim would have slop side to side. I'm still missing something. The outer races are a press fit into the rim. They don't move at all once they're pressed into place. The left side bearing seats firmly against the shoulder in the rim. From what's been posted here, the right side bearing doesn't quite seat all the way, but it still won't move once it's in there. | ||
| Honu |
A couple of questions? I have not read about anybody pressing their own bearings into the rims. I read to put the bearings into the freezer and to heat up the rim/hub to help the bearing slide in easier. Is it OK to lubricate the bearing to help get it pressed into the rim or is this a no-no??? | ||
| 2_spuds |
A couple of questions? I have not read about anybody pressing their own bearings into the rims. I read to put the bearings into the freezer and to heat up the rim/hub to help the bearing slide in easier. Is it OK to lubricate the bearing to help get it pressed into the rim or is this a no-no??? Freezing the bearings first would help.As for heating the hub area I can't see where that would do much good. Heat expands metal, but it always expands in the path of least resistance. What's to keep the bore from shrinking,where there is no resistance, as opposed to expanding where it is resisted by the rest of the wheel? I press new bearings in at room temp and use a high pressure molly/graphite assembly lube. I'am on about the 6th set and no problems so far. | ||
| 2_spuds |
A couple of questions? I have not read about anybody pressing their own bearings into the rims. I read to put the bearings into the freezer and to heat up the rim/hub to help the bearing slide in easier. Is it OK to lubricate the bearing to help get it pressed into the rim or is this a no-no??? Freezing the bearing would help but I can't see where heating the hub area would. Heat expands metal and it always expands in the path of least resistance. By applying enough heat in the hub area to actually move anything, why would the bore expand outward, where it is opposed by the rest of the wheel,instead of expanding inward where it is unopposed? I press new bearings in with the wheel at room temp and apply a high pressure moly/graphite assembly lube to the bearing and the bore. I'am on about the 6th set and no problems so far. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I've not done a Uly hub yet, but certainly many many Japanese race bikes. After freezing the bearing, I use a heat gun on the hub. With the hub hot enough to lazily sizzle water, bearings drop in without a press. I generally confirm that the bearing is fully seated with a deadblow mallet around the outer race. Mark in Arizona | ||
| Stevenknapp |
I have not read about anybody pressing their own bearings into the rims. I did, I used a copy of the factory tool. You can find links earlier in the thread. Anti-sieze went on mine, seems fine. Time will tell. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"..Heat expands metal, but it always expands in the path of least resistance. What's to keep the bore from shrinking..." spuds, It simply does not work that way. After some years of metal working and making parts for various classes of press fits, in various metals, etc., I assure you and will bet the ranch on the fact that if you heat up a wheel hub, the I.D. of the bearing bore will get bigger. And bigger means that both the inside and outside of the wheel hub will get bigger. Imagine two concentric circles as defining a mass of metal, heat it and both circles expand. They will never, not ever, get smaller. Add spokes, more concentric circles like rims, etc., to those two same concentric circles and nothing changes... For a wheel hub, a good tool to use for heating would be one of those industrial type guns for shrinking heat shrink tubing. The one I have will blow at at up to around 800F on the highest setting. Set it at about 500, put it a foot or so away, and give it 10 minutes or so. But you old lady's hair dryer on the highest setting will do a pretty good job if nothing else if available. If you can find a copy of Machinery's Handbook (in publication since 1883) around, look at the section in there on figuring out press fits. They've had all this figured out for a *long* time. Jack | ||
| Jlnance |
What's to keep the bore from shrinking,where there is no resistance, as opposed to expanding where it is resisted by the rest of the wheel? Like Jack said, the holes get larger when you heat something. I wondered about this for years, until I found it in a physics book. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
This is taken from : http://www.dubairchobbies.org/engine_operation_and _care.htm Bearings should not come loose without the aid of heat. NEVER force the bearings out .... let them drop out with heat. Heat the crankcase (with all other parts removed) by placing it in an oven (try at 120 degrees C, and increase as necessary), or heat the area evenly with a portable gas torch. Often the rear bearing will drop out with a sharp knock on the bench. The front bearing will need to be pushed from behind with a suitably sized wooden dowel. To install bearings, use the process in reverse. It is vital the bearings go back into the housings all the way, and square. It is often necessary to make special wooden or Teflon holders to aid the process. Take care to not force the inner race of the bearing when installing (or removing if the bearings are still in good condition). The bearing holders etc, should be made to only push against the outer rim of the bearing, and to be an interference fit inside the bearing shaft hole, to hold the bearing onto the mandrel. The process of removing and installing bearings with heat works on the principle of expansion rates, the aluminum crankcase expends at a greater rate than the steel bearings. On some occasions the liner may also need removing via this method. Well after reading that, maybe these bearings don't need to be knocked out if heat will actually allow them to fall out. I've read this thread with interest and recall that many advocate heating to install but none heating to remove and maybe we should. 120 degrees C is 248 F. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on May 01, 2008) | ||
| Honu |
Thanks for the info. When the time comes to change out the bearings I just want the best info IF I try it myself. I did read in a moto mag awhile back about using a heat gun on the hub. Thanks again for the info!! (Message edited by honu on May 01, 2008) | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Hono, from your profile photo I see you are motorcycle rich. | ||
| 2_spuds |
What kind of temps are reached with the heat gun, and are there any worries with the heat affecting the grease or seals in the new bearings? | ||
| Stevem123 |
Hey Honu, You need one more bike and you'll have one for each day of the week! Wee Hawwwww! If you're ever in the Burkburnett/Wichita Falls area those are my old stomping grounds! Now I just live with all the granola in CA.......I don't miss the HOT summers in TX though! BC Steve | ||
| Arcticktm |
No need to worry about the bearings. You will start with frozen ones, and they will not heat up enough from the hot hub to have any problems. Things will even out quickly. The seals and bearing grease is generally rated for temps around boiling, and the bearing will not get nearly that hot during the press. Unless, of course, you mess up and heat the bearing and cool the hub! | ||
| Mark_weiss |
A note for cooling new bearings. If you have a stand-alone freezer it will be better than one that is combined with a refrigerator. Generally a combo-freezer only cools to about 25 F, a stand alone often goes to 0 F. Colder is better. Dry ice works too, I just don't usually happen to have any laying about. It is important to get the new bearing in place quickly. Maybe do a couple of 'dry runs' with the old bearing first. The new bearing will heat quickly and be captured by the hub within a dozen seconds or so. Mark in Arizona |
