| Author | Message | ||
     Bigkuri |
A topical title, but heavy on my mind... I own a 2008 Uly. My pride and joy. I recently posted the below on http://www.ukbeg.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file= viewtopic&p=370807#370807, and was advised by the UK numero uno Buell guru that this may likely be due to a Buell 2008 fault in the ECM. My bike runs like crap right now. I start it, it stalls in 2 seconds. Start again, stalls again, start again, and its ok for 20 seconds before stalling again. Then runs 20sec, then 10 (repeat, etc.), then its finally ok - just coughs and chokes & sounds horrible till I ride it for more than 10 miles. Under 10 miles it just coughs and chokes at each set of lights - although does not stall again (just). I think it is to do with not warming it up long enough a couple of times (oh the guilt!)? Plus that and some short rides of under 10miles every so often (which are usually the ones where I don't let it warm up enough). It did this from new with 300m to 600m on the clock, until I took it to tubbs (a local Buell specialist); whereas afterwards it ran absolutely lovely, till my (free) 1000m service at dealerXXX. They are really really nice dealers, but I cannot say anything but that the service was bad - I'd like to say something nice about it, but they did not check everything the manual says (yes I'm a geek) and adjusted the throttle so badly it stuck even on the test ride they did. I was in a rush, so could not hang around while they fixed their •••• up(s). The bike runs hotter, and gear changes are just nasty, so I think they put synth oil in it instead of the dino I requested? Anyway, back to my big problem... For the cold idle problem I'm assuming fouled spark plugs? They are "race plugs" installed by tubbs. Or is my whole assumption wrong, and like some say I should just ride it like normal from the get off and go without warming it up? I have reset the TPS several times (ingtn on, 3x twist throttle, 1 sec delay each stop) - no difference. The main thing I notice around TPS resets is the flat spot at 5000 RPM, which is annoying, but dangerous after a long time without TPS reset (now on 2,500m). Also - idle is on start just below 1500. After (the third start) about 30 seconds it drops to just over 1000. Then coughs, splutters, and chokes - which interestingly enough seems to annoy my neighbours more than me sitting there revving the hell out of it....?! Anyway, new 08 bike, careful owner, fast aggressive rider (same person?!), and lots of hassle starting it up. I usually commute 45 miles to work each day - first 10 miles through west London. I'm likely to take it to Maz - the guru, however thought I'd post here to see if any similar problems or suggestions? | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm curious about your "TPS resets". According to all the US paperwork, the 2008s do not require a reset, the computer automatically takes care of any adjustments as you ride. I'll have to look, but the only "WOT throttle" trick is to clean the plugs. Maybe I just need to read *all* of the manual, LOL. I'd put stock plugs back in. My guess is the "race" plugs are the wrong heat range and are fouling on you. If you have some carb cleaner sitting around, spray it on the engine in the intake manifold area. If the bike stumbles you have an intake leak. Not unheard of and a relatively simple (warranty) fix. Given your symptoms, I'd not be surprised if you found one. Also, for your shifting, check your primary adjustment. That can give you the harder shifting you describe. When I changed my bikes to Syn3, the shifting got easier, not harder, and the bikes run cooler, not hotter. Sounds like your primary is too tight. | ||
| Etennuly |
I'm reading that it ran fine up to the time the dealer screwed with it. Most likely they have fouled the plugs. If so you are able to make it run by doing the throttle trick. In my experience plugs don't recover from being wet fouled. It sounds like you are forcing it to run until it gets warm enough that the cylinders and plugs are warmed up enough to smooth out with bad plugs. Check your oil too. If this is the case, you may be washing down the cylinders a bit and contaminating your oil with gas. You can pull the dip stick and smell the oil. If it smells like gas it will confirm the above problem. | ||
| Xbimmer |
+1. Change the plugs, the rear one's a pain but it amazes me afterwards how well the stock HD plugs work in my '06. Start-stop-start-stop is gonna kill plugs and if you're not running race speeds why are they installing race plugs anyway?  | ||
| Cyclonedon |
take it back to the dealer! Something is wrong and it's still under warranty. | ||
| Bigkuri |
Thanks for the tips; appreciated - I'll try the intake leak test this weekend. Race plugs seem good for my usual riding 80mph to 100mph into work, so the engine is rev'ing pretty hard. Agree that they are not so good if I ride in London - not often though. The bike did this "from new" not just after the dealer had it. The dealer mucked up some other things which I "don't" think are related. I think that the plugs are the problem - guess that I fouled them on some short run. Will change but need to buy some tools to get at that rear one!  Pity they don't self clean! | ||
| Court |
>>>Pity they don't self clean! Actually . . if you have a 2008 I believe they do. Your dealer should know. If not, drop me a note. | ||
| Chrisgrant |
My '08 had fouled plugs at the dealer. The self cleaning worked after a few tries but fouled again later a few days after I got it home. I would say change the plugs first. It's not hard to do with a swivle-socket and extension. | ||
| Khelton |
Sorry to take this just a little off topic but are the iridium plugs considered to be the race plugs or just a better stock plug ? | ||
| Conchop |
I'm not too pleased with the low rpm performance of my 08 but I don't have those kind of problems at all - however - on a cold start I always have to start it twice or occasionally 3 times before it goes into a warm up. Once there, it runs like a bat out of hell. There is a lean program in the ecm at the heart of it. Have any of you tried the dobeck, dyna, or power commander in the new 08???? Lean is mean but big V twins need big gas - the trick is to achieve a balance. | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
The Iridium plugs, (assuming they are correct for your bike), are better stock plugs. "Race" plugs are "colder" plugs i.e. higher operating temperature, and will have a greater tendency to foul, particularly with stop/start running and short runs when the motor doesn't warm up sufficiently. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
The '08s come with foul-resistant plugs, but they are not self-cleaning. Once fouled, they are dead. I managed to foul a set in my '08 after about one week (800 miles) with the bike. I'd had a warning or two beforehand, then one morning the bike ran terribly and would not recover. I was still using my "carburetor" style staring procedure of pressing the starter button until I heard the first "pop" and then picking things up with the throttle. This is clearly the wrong way to start the Uly. I'm now a believer in "press the button until it runs, don't touch the throttle at all" I let the bike warm a bit while I fasten my helmet and pull on my gloves. Mark in Arizona | ||
| Etennuly |
Court, I agree with Mark. Once a plug has fouled it is fouled. It may run again, but my experience with race cars and bikes has shown me that that statement is true. In this case, they likely had been originally fouled in the show room, but ran well enough to get it out the door. He put in new plugs and it ran fine. Looks like the service department fouled them again, to which it will run, but as stated above. The hocus-pocus in the '08 ECM may help dry them out to get it started, but I don't see how it can save a wet fouled plug that is otherwise junk. If it does indeed save or restore them I am interested in learning how. | ||
| Amerikian |
Check out this post. It explains how the new '08s self clean the plugs: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/332478.html?1201526708 | ||
| Court |
>>Court, I agree with Mark. Once a plug has fouled it is fouled. I agree. | ||
| Steve_a |
Correct starting procedure for all XBs and 1125Rs is to not touch the throttle while pushing the starter button. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I'd not read of the procedure noted by Amerikian. That would work to clear fuel from the chamber and possibly prevent plug fouling, but once a plug is carbon-ed up, it is very rare that they'll ever self-clean. Once a plug has a coating of carbon on the insulator, most (if not all) of the spark energy runs directly to ground and the plug will not fire well. It takes a lot of heat to cause the insulator to run clean and once covered with carbon, most plugs just will not reach this temperature. Possibly, if I'd known about the multi-spark procedure, I could have run it when my bike first did not start properly and might have saved the plugs. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Self cleaning plugs..... No TPS resets.... Next thing ya know they will come with an expresso machine and a hole in the seat for your.....nevermind....  | ||
| Chris_socal |
Yeah, I have seen this on my brothers 08. It was having the same issue after starting it and riding it for about a quarter mile in freezing temps. The fix was to get the bike up to temp and then get into third gear and run at 6500 rpm's for about 5-10 mins. You will feel the engine do what feels like a skip in the firing a couple times. Keep running the bike hard for about another 20 mins after that and you should have blown all of the crap out of the engine. Once the engine blows all of the crap out you should be fine. Are you blowing smoke at all? Does it smell like it is running rich? -Chris | ||
| Dentguy |
When talking about blowing out crap did you mean the pistons and rods? | ||
| Bigkuri |
Chris, that's pretty much how I ride it most of the time... It is definitely better after a long hard ride, and yes, it smells rich when starting, however it sounds/feels like it is lean. I've booked it in with Maz (mechanic guru) for next month, so that'll sort it  | ||
| Chris_socal |
Pistons, rods, you know, anything bulky inside the engine that might get in the way.  Well, best of luck to you. It is frustrating to have a new toy that doesn't work the way you expect it to. -Chris | ||
| Bigblock |
A good overnight soaking in some soapy water will work wonders with a set of fouled plugs ( now I just have to figure out how to soak them in the motor...) | ||
| Bigkuri |
Well I swapped the plugs over the weekend, and hey-presto, nice running Uly again. It should not happen this bad - I warm it up at least 2 minutes before each ride, and never really travel less than 40 miles. Every so often it has a "town run" of only 10 miles, but it gets so hot during the city riding... We'll see what turns up when Maz the mechanic gets his hands on it - suspects bad fueling map in the ECM, and seems to be common here (in the UK) on 08 Uly's. Until then, it'll be new plugs every month  I may just try an overnight soak for them! | ||
| Etennuly |
On my first Buell, an '05 City-X, I learned that the plug fouling was indeed my fault. I would start it up and blip or rev it as it warmed up. I went so far as to carry spare sets of plugs and tools on the bike. I couldn't believe that an engine could shake around and run that rough when cold and not foul the plugs, so I was helping it. After some schooling from here on this BadWeb, the problem seemed to have fixed it self. On my '06 Uly I am on the third set of plugs(changed at 10,000 mile intervals) and one TPS re-set, and it is now at 25,000 miles. Lessons learned; 1. give it only enough throttle to start 2. let it idle for four or five minutes 3. do not ever "blip" the throttle 4. no revving the engine with no load 5. never start it to move it more than once without fully warming it up(see 6.) 6. only start it if it is going to be ridden far enough to warm it up completely, eight to ten miles or more 7. always run the best gas you can get 8. never let a non-Buell owner start and ride your bike(because all of the above) 9. never expect your bike to come out of a HD service department with a completed or correct repair(see all of the above) 10. always carry tools to correct the HD service department repairs if you are riding anywhere other than home to re-check said repairs(it will prevent disappointment and blaming the Buell motorcycle for ham-fisted, incorrect repairs and mechanical misuse(see above)) Every once in a while take it out and run the living snot out of it for an hour or more. Mine gets bogged down running on short trips and easy riding. It really livens back up after a long fast/hard run. With the way the ECM resets itself the harder you run it, the harder it will run. I love my Ulysses, hopefully these tips will help you feel the same way about yours!  | ||
| Arcticktm |
Just curious about those that have been or still are using throttle during starting: Is this a carryover from your carb bikes, or something you think is needed on the Buell? I have never touched the throttle on anything with fuel injection, except in extreme cases (snowmobiles at -25F), and never had a problem. My '06 Uly only has about 9K miles (stock plugs), but it runs great, and I have never touched the throttle during starting. I am also not a throttle blipper, and never start the bike unless I am going to ride it. Just wondering if some folks have been told to use the throttle, or it is just from past bikes. | ||
| Bigkuri |
I like 9 & 10 of that list That certainly sums up my lessons at "some" dealers I've been too... Thanks for the checklist - certainly useful! I never blip it - just start it and leave it for 2 (min) to 4 (usual) mins. Run 97 or 98 octane only. Number 6 I'm guilty of... Cheers! | ||
| Bosh |
Interesting to see the different philosophies on starting a cold bike. Here's mine: * Turn on key, wait for check engine light to go out. * No throttle on start up. * Start bike. * I never "blip" the throttle. It idles just fine thank you. * Warm it up while you ride it, not idling in your driveway. I usually start the bike, put my helmet on and ride. Gets it up to temp ASAP to get off the rich fuel/air mixture. I've NEVER fouled a set of plugs. | ||
| Etennuly |
Sometimes, like when it is cold out, my bike will just crank and crank and won't quite start(fire sputter quit). I open the throttle a little and she fires right up. Below 40F I have to keep it at about 1500 for a few seconds to keep it lit. They are all a little different I guess.  | ||
| Atoms |
Every once in a while take it out and run the living snot out of it for an hour or more. Mine gets bogged down running on short trips and easy riding. It really livens back up after a long fast/hard run. With the way the ECM resets itself the harder you run it, the harder it will run. There is a phrase for that procedure from way back in the day... "Italian Tune-up" was it? |
