| Author | Message | ||
     Jlnance |
I'm reading a post by danger_dave on another website, and he is talking about needing to rebuild his shock because it's got 30,000 Km on it. I've got a lot more than 30,000 Km on mine so I'm wondering if I need to rebuild mine. How would I know? What does a need-to-be-rebuilt shock ride like? Where would I get it done and what's it cost? In the same thread, Chadhargis is talking about using an aftermarket shock because the stock suspension doesn't work well for his 235 lb body. I weigh about 235, should I skip the rebuild and use a different shock? Thanks, SuspensionNewbie | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Damn. 235 must be the magic number. I am considering reworking my suspension as well. I have grown to like the suspension stiffer. When pressed hard, the soft suspension tends to pitch through turns. The only way to stiffen it up is to jack up the preload. I am at maximum. It keeps the suspension taut in corners, but the result is NO suspension travel. At times, it feels like I am riding a rigid. I plan to have mine reworked so that the rear spring is set to my specific weight. Chad has the stiffness he wants (and I want) with NO preload. If your suspension still feels ok to you, I'd leave it alone. I am considering a trip down to GMD computrack. I know Chad had his Goldwing reworked by them (yeah he HAD a GW, tee hee hee!). Warbaby also had them to lower and rework his Uly as well. | ||
| Danger_dave |
You can tell. It gets mushy - literally. In emulsion shocks Gas and hydraulic fluid are emulsified - then separated out again in the damping process. In time they stop separating and the whole thing turns to a paste - and damping and rebound damping are diminished. You either replace the gas and fluid so it re-emulsifies - a rebuild - or replace the unit - depending on how rebuildable the subject shocks are. Sealed or otherwise. FB's saggyness is a symptom. (Message edited by danger_dave on December 17, 2007) | ||
| Gotj |
When I had my shock rebuilt by Trackside Engineering, half of the reason was to get a spring and damping setup that handled my weight in the middle of the range rather than at the upper limits. When you are at near max preload and damping, it does make for a much stiffer ride. I targeted the middle of the range because I flatter myself that I am going to lose some weight.  | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>I plan to have mine reworked so that the rear spring is set to my specific weight. << That's why those roosters drink the Ohlin's kool aid. It's not entirely the fact that they are good components - also you make that sort of spend - you set it up right too. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
FB's saggyness is a symptom. OF WHAT? | ||
| Danger_dave |
Life. | ||
| Jlnance |
You can tell. You underestimate the depths of my ignorance.  My problem is I am a relatively new rider. When I first got the Uly, you could have set the suspension any way you wanted and I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference. As I got more experience, I could tell when I left the rear preload in the "with girlfriend" position because it made the front end squirly with the D616 tires. Now I notice more about the suspension. The rear tends to bounce up and down after a bump for example. The thing is I don't know if it's always done this, or if I'm just more preceptive. I don't know if I just need to adjust something, or if something is wearing out. I do know that when I ride with the g/f the suspension is marginal. I think we exceed the MGVW when we are both on there. The respringing people are talking about might fix that. So if I wanted to get my shock rebuilt, who would I call? Any idea what it would cost? | ||
| Smcnamara |
Jlnance, You've got several options for shock work, and a couple of GREAT resources in your area. Note: Most suspension pros will also attempt to sell you on an upgraded shock. There are some benefits to really good suspension components, but the OEM SHOWA unit really isn't too shabby. Some options: Thermosman (NC): http://www.thermosman.com/ Traxxion Dynamics (GA): http://www.traxxion.com GP Suspension (OR) : http://www.gpsuspension.com Race Tech (CA) : www.race-tech.com Trackside Engineering (WI) : https://www.tracksideengineering.com Any of these shops can help you out, personally, I'm a big fan of Thermosman, and had a good experience with GP Suspension as well. I also know that Trackside has helped some board members out with their bikes. Hope that helps.} (Message edited by smcnamara on December 18, 2007) | ||
| Teeps |
Danger_dave Posted on Monday, December 17, In emulsion shocks Gas and hydraulic fluid are emulsified - then separated out again in the damping process. True statement; but in the Uly shock, I believe, the gas and oil are separated, by a rubber membrane in the reservoir. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Cool - thanks for that - I didn't check - but if that is the case it would make my arguments on ADV regarding the quality of the standard unit even more valid. Also could explain why I think I need a rebuild at 30,000 rather than the usual 15-20k. This has a simple schematic schwing the three types http://www.motorbike-world.co.uk/frame-detail.asp?PAGE=/ohlins-motorcycle-shocks.htm The gas and fluid in the reserviour system become 'tired' just like the emulsions - but it takes longer and is easier to rebuild. Yeah - Showas on mine. (Message edited by danger_dave on December 18, 2007) | ||
| Spike |
I thought OEM XB shocks were Showa? Was there a change? | ||
| S_palmer |
Jinance, It sounds like you are adjusting the preload knob for changing loads but are you adjusting the damping? The Uly is very sensitive to suspension adjustments, your owners manual will give you base settings. If I were in your shoes I would at least try adjustment before spending big bucks for a new shock. The OEM unit is really pretty good if set properly. A spring rate set up for 2 up riding might be a poor performer riding solo. How much of your riding is with a passenger? If you don't have a manual PM me, I would be happy to talk you through it on the phone. Steve | ||
| Smcnamara |
Spike, You are totally right... That's just me being dumb. Duh. Buell is Showa. My Aprilia RS250 was OEM Sachs (which *was* garbage, and since replaced with Penske.) It felt funny when I wrote it, and now I know why. Thanks for the catch. Original post edited. | ||
| Spike |
Sean- No worries. If I had a nickel for every time I had a "duh" moment . . . well I'd have a lot of nickels.  Jim- Do you still have that suspension chart I gave you? If not, it should be available here: https://www.buell.com/om/99477-08Y_en/file-5.asp#t able-hdtopic000616-2 | ||
| Spike |
Actually, skip that first link. It's the suspension settings for an '08 Ulysses. The factory '06 settings are here: http://www.buell.com/om/99477-06Y_en/file-5.asp#ta ble-hdtopic000616-2 | ||
| Teeps |
Danger_dave Posted on Tuesday, December 18, Cool - thanks for that - I didn't check - but if that is the case it would make my arguments on ADV regarding the quality of the standard unit even more valid. Yes, that's quite a pissing contest over there. To add to the discussion, I asked a suspension guru friend this question: Top of the line Showa suspension vs top of the line Ohlins suspension, both "properly setup", which is better? He said both the same, for the mortal man, that maybe Rossi or Carmichael could tell the difference in a blind (so to speak)back to back test. He went on to say that the Ohlins are more durable, from a servicing standpoint. | ||
| Jlnance |
Spike/S_palmer, My suspension is currently set up according to the chart in the owners manual. Actually, now that I write that, I realize I'm wrong. I believe you adjusted it when you had it Mike, so it's now adjusted to your weight. But my observations on the behavior were prior to that. I'll set it up the next time I ride. But say I set it up and it "bounces" in the rear end. What do I change to make it stop? | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>I asked a suspension guru friend this question: Top of the line Showa suspension vs top of the line Ohlins suspension, both "properly setup", which is better? He said both the same, for the mortal man, that maybe Rossi or Carmichael could tell the difference in a blind (so to speak)back to back test. He went on to say that the Ohlins are more durable, from a servicing standpoint.<< Ditto. Danger Dave 1 - Other 0 Cheers. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>But say I set it up and it "bounces" in the rear end. What do I change to make it stop?<< Once you have pre-loaded appropriately You must find harmony between damping and rebound damping, gwasshopper. twial and ewwor and a folding scwewdwiver in your pocket are your friends. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
and a folding scwewdwiver in your pocket And here I thought you were just happy to see me. | ||
| Danger_dave |
http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/.Pictur es/misc2/foghorn11.wav | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Good luck, my friend. Good luck. As my Mom said, "you ain't NEVER been right!" | ||
| Spike |
Hmm . . . When I used to set up my Firebolt using the factory settings I would occasionally set up the rear one weight range higher than I would set up the front. I *may* have done the same when setting up your Ulysses with the factory settings. In any case, it's probably worth setting your bike to the book settings to get a baseline before you start making other changes. I couldn't be further from a suspension expert, but in the most basic of terms the spring (and thus preload) supports the weight while the dampening reduces excess movement. If you get the spring preload close and one end of the bike tends to bounce I'd start dialing in more dampening. However, every change affects everything else, so it's best to work in small increments. | ||
| Arcticktm |
JL, My dirt bike/enduro racing past life suggests this order: 1. Re-check settings per the owners manual, which is the best suspension setting advice I have seen in an owners manual. 2. play around with the settings per manual advice (only change 1 item at a time and ride the same route) 3. If you still think your spring is too weak (need to dial in a lot of preload), try a new spring before you spend big money on having the shock re-valved or replaced. 4. If #1-3 still leave you unsatisfied, then go the full mod with someone who has done it before (lots of folks can change valving but may not know what they are doing) Don't let others talk you into thinking your suspension is no good if you are happy with it. My opinion is that the stock Uly setup is quite good and VERY adjustable, but I weigh about 170lbs, which puts me in the sweet spot for the rear spring rate. If your rear shock bounces too much after a bump, and you are OK with the preload setting (it is not too soft), then you should add in some rebound damping to the rear shock. This means you will go in (clockwise) on the rebound screw at the bottom of the shock. The manual really does a good job of explaining it without going overboard. Ohlins is great stuff, and I have visited their US location (Hendersonville, NC) when I worked for an OEM, but few of us need to spend that much unless we are racing or doing aggressive track days, or have extreme needs that put you way out of the normal. Always get the springs right before messing with the hydraulics (damping/valving/oil types, etc). | ||
| Jlnance |
Arcticktm - Thanks. I had no idea Ohlins was in Herndersonville. Can one just go out and buy a new spring? | ||
| Chadhargis |
I had my Goldwing suspension done by Traxxion Dynamics. Same shop that set up my track bike Gixxer. | ||
| Murraebueller |
If you need a rebuild/change of spring: http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com We've used them a number of times and they do excellent work at a reasonable price. |
