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Gsron
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 06:58 pm: | 
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OTD = Tax, Fees, Set Up ETC. That is the final price. Papers signed and key in-hand. The nice part was the sales Mgr said they'd start dealing from there and we would meet somewhere in the middle.... |
Chrisgrant
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 07:14 pm: |
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Yes OTD is driving off on the bike. I only posted SC taxes because other states are different. |
Tipsymcstagger
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 07:20 pm: |
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Not to mention in many cases, if you buy at an out-of-state dealer, you will get "out the door" w/o paying sales tax but will then have to pay the sales tax in your home state when you register the bike.
At least that's the scenario for those of us who live in NY and might buy at a certain dealer in NJ.
So you're "out the door" but still have to come up with another $1000+ at the DMV.
Tipsy |
Chrisgrant
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 11:04 pm: |
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Not in SC. If I buy a bike in NC, my sales tax is capped at $300 when I register the bike in SC.
If I buy out of state I would simply deduct SC sales tax of $300 from the price that I'm willing to pay for a bike or car.
Right now I would just like to know what I should really be paying for a new Uly for a fair deal. |
Karlsbad
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 12:16 am: |
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Court
Great analogy on "Paying & Buying"
There is a huge difference between the two yet many people can not tell one from the other.
Well put |
Jmhinkle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 01:19 am: |
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Chrisgrant, Being how new the '08 is and the big changes they made, I doubt the dealers are ready to "deal" on them yet. When they are sitting in line next to the unsold '06 and '07 as the '09's are rolling in then they will be all about the deals. If you are not asking for bags in the deal $11K OTD is something a good dealer would/should highly consider on an '08. I would go lower, but I also wouldn't buy this soon on an '08. It's all in how bad you want it and what is a deal in your eyes. |
Chrisgrant
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 08:21 pm: |
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I'm planning on March so the ' won't be as new as they are right now. I don't see why they wouldn't deal by then. |
Daves
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 08:41 am: |
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WOW.
I wonder how I ever sold any bikes? (or any product, I've been in sales for about 30 years, in 5 different industries)
But at the end of the day, in all businesses I have been involved with, I have always sold me. That was, and is, the only product you can't buy at the dealer down the road. To lots, that made a difference. To others, well, they went down the road to the "cheapest" guy.
There will always be people that buy on price.
There will always be people that buy on value.
They are never the same people.
Guess which ones are happier?
As always, choose your dealer wisely. |
Electraglider_1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 10:02 am: |
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I'd guess the guy that has more money left over to feed the family and put gas in his ULY is happier. Value is higher for the guy that got the bike cheaper. Dealer is happier with guy that spent more for the same product that can be bought for less somewhere else. Making dealer happier doesn't equate to customer happiness except in dealer's mind. |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 10:20 am: |
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+1 Electra....Why can't you buy on price and value? It is possible. A local dealer near me does both (He doesn't sell Buells). He sells and services a lot of bikes with many happy customers. More than his competition due to lower prices and good customer service.
(Message edited by dentguy on October 10, 2007)
(Message edited by dentguy on October 10, 2007) |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 11:07 am: |
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Daves... I agree with you about selling yourself. I do the same thing in my business. Unfortunately a lot of bike dealers are like car dealers where the departments are so separated that parts or service don't know or care how much you paid for your bike. Nobody cares once it leaves sales dept. I don't want to pay more just so my salesman remembers my name when he tells me he can't help me with the parts dept. or service because they are not his dept. Been there done that. |
Electraglider_1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 11:13 am: |
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My dealer does both also but I don't believe that value has to come with higher price. If two guys buy from different dealers and one pays 1000 more. How can anyone claim ( especially a dealer )they got a better value paying 1 grand extra? The warranty on the less expensive bike is still covered at all Buell dealers. |
Daves
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 02:45 pm: |
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Glider,
I figured out a long time ago that you are a price buyer. That's ok. It is just the way you work. I am glad you are happy with your dealer.
So, do you do your job for less than the other people where you work? Or people that do the same thing at a different company? If not, why? That is what you are asking dealers and salesmen to do.
You make dealers and salespeople out to be evil creatures that do not deserve to get a fair price for their time,service and product. Most are not.
It is very easy (and the lazy way) to sell price. Heck, all you have to do is be the cheapest.
It is much more difficult to sell based on value.
I have never been the cheapest.
I will never be the cheapest.
I will, however, always take the best care of my customers that is possible. I'm thinkin that many here can attest to that. To some, that has merit when they make their choice in who to spend their dollars with.
For you, and others, it does not.
If you are a a value and service salesperson, there are some customers you just cannot do business with. Some you choose not to do business with.In sales, you just need to realize that and move on.
I have many, amusing stories (well amusing to those that understand) about customers I have chose not to do business with and their reaction to that choice.
Sometimes the bosses reaction is pretty funny too. The car dealer I worked for almost had a heart attack when I asked a customer to leave and refused to sell him a truck.
Almost got me fired. I had only been there a couple months but went on to be that dealerships top salesperson 7 of the 9 years I was there. |
Karlsbad
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 08:19 pm: |
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I would much rather explain my price
Than apologize for my quality.
And we are not talking about product here. |
Roc
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 09:17 pm: |
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If we have 2 broken down customers and one driver which bike will we go get?
If it is questionable that a problem is covered by warranty will we submit a claim or ask the customer to pay?
If a customer's new bike is having problems will we loan them a rental bike?
If we have a customer with a bike out of warranty will we dip into our COOP budget to take care of them?
We try to take care of all of your customers but given limited resorces there is a hierarchy.
Be nice to the employees. If you are a good guy you will be offered more and your experience will be better.  |
Jmhinkle
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 11:18 pm: |
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"I have always sold me"
There are businesses where that works. There are people that it works for. There are customers who want it and look for it. Unfortunately, it has no place in the vehicle sales business. That business is cut-throat, crooked, under-handed, and slimy. I've been around it long enough to know. The good dealers are so few and far between it's just plain scary.
I have a good dealer that gave me a wonderful deal on my bike. Was he the cheapest I could get? No, but there were a few factors weighed in the whole decision (VALUE?). Some of them being that they are very pro-Buell and most of the service guys rode Buells. When I need service or recalls, they do what they can to get my bike fixed ASAP (bent swingarm was down for 1.5 months waiting on parts and decisions from Buell, kind of understandable). They are not my local dealer and I still chose to drive the 50 miles to them because of this. How often do I go see them? Not very. I didn't buy hotdogs, accessory girls or my salesman. I bought a friggin motorcycle, 2 actually. When I need parts do I go to them? No way. It is too expensive and I have to wait too long for it. Where do I go for parts? Daves (formerly) and now Andy. Are they the cheapest? Not for me, but they have the parts to me the quickest at the almost best prices. I could save quite a bit of money with another source, but I'm at the mercy of shipping when convenient. Not what I want.
I can understand what Daves is getting at, but there is a place for it. Small specialized business is where that prevails. Customers need and demand it there. His current business is much more in line with that philosophy and I wish him the utmost success at it. And when he was selling Buells he may have not been the cheapest, but he was extremely competitive and that doesn't even factor in dealing with him. And with that factored in he offered a great value, but I believe his dealership is also one of the standout ones.
Dentguy summed it up best with the analogy of a dealership being several small businesses under one roof that don't communicate. That is really how it is at most dealerships. Only the sales manager and the woman that took my check know what I paid. Everyone else doesn't know if it was $20 or $20,000. Price means nothing except icing on cake for the dealership owner and he disperses it how he pleases. The customer gets treated the same no matter what they spent so why spend more unnecessarily?
The corporation I work for (one you all know very well) is much the same, but they twisted it around to work for the customer. How? Everyone is a customer. The consumer is a customer of the retailer who is a customer of the sales dept that is a customer of the manufacturing dept who is a customer of the engineering dept etc.... What does this mean? The Fab that produces the best products for the lowest price wins by getting the sales, new processes and extended life in a rapidly changing environment. That's right, customers demand low prices period, but they also want their products to work so they might pay a little more for ours, but not much. Our dependability can only justify a very small difference in price over the competitors. Sales (quantity) always brings in more revenue than price (gouging). How are we rewarded? The income from sales and recognition for our specific building means jobs and raises and very nice bonuses and being first on the list for the next customer. Everyone is happy and everyone wins except the competitor. Other companies sue us for unfair practices and many other things just to try to slow us down and lose daily. And for many out there, the best part is that my company is one of the last true American companies to actually manufacture something from scratch here in the USA. From start to finish. We are known worldwide for being the best at what we do. Your Buell, HD, Chevy, Ford or Toyota doesn't even come close to being this American. Our product change rate is about 1-3 months and our complete redesign is in the 15 month range. Our net income? Billions. Yes, net of Billions. Does HD offer you a completely new line of bikes every 15 months? Nope. They would like to claim it's impossible. Do most consumers realize any of that about this company? Not at all. They just want our product and want it cheap. Does our low price mean that I am underpaid or do my coworkers come cheap? Not at all. Does my company give out free hotdogs, ice cream, BBQ's, T-shirts, jackets, vacation trips, laptops, desktops, PDA's and big titted accessory girls? Well 9 out of 10 isn't bad. Then again, I can go see the last one if need be at the local gentlemen's club and get better service than my local accessory girl.
(Message edited by jmhinkle on October 11, 2007) |
Karlsbad
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 11:46 pm: |
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Went on an incredible ride yesterday, 70+ degrees out, all the leaves and tamaracks are changing colors, rode with one of my best friends, stopped along lake Roosevelt and had an awesome cigar (And I am not a real smoker) rode two Ferries (Sounds odd I know) Rode over Bridger creek pass which makes LOLO look like a freeway (HWY12 ID-MT)
Stopped after the ride @ a new steak house in town called Churchills and the funny thing about the whole day was I never thought once about the price of my 08 Uly. |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 12:12 am: |
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a good deal is when the seller and the buyer agree on a fair price to close the deal!
I want my local dealer to make a fair profit so his dealership can grow and stay in business. What good is it if you beat the dealership up on price and they either drop the product or go out-of-business? All dealers need to be able to make a profit!
Likewise, I don't want my employer to let me go because he can find cheaper labor from someone else. If everyone always looks for the lowest price when purchasing, our economy will be in big trouble because the manufacturing base will all be shipped overseas along with the jobs lost! Then we will become a service industry and you'll be able to wear a shirt with your name tag on it and ask all of your customers, "would you like fries with that?"
buy AMERICAN and I hope you enjoy your Uly as much as I enjoy mine! |
Teeps
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 08:49 am: |
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Cyclonedon Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 12:12 am:
a good deal is when the seller and the buyer agree on a fair price to close the deal!
Amen, brother.
Nuf said... |
Daves
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 09:24 am: |
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JM
I disagree that "selling yourself" has no place in vehicle sales.
20 years of selling Fords,Buells and HDs and it seemed to work pretty good for me?
Like I stated, that is the only thing you can't get at another dealership. You can buy the same car, truck or bike at lots of places. The salesperson and other people that work at the dealership are the only difference. They can certainly make a difference in how you view your ownership.
You are correct that in my current business (small business) it is all important to provide "over the top" customer treatment and service. I don't give out hot dogs. I don't have any bimbo girls. Just me, quality products at a fair price, great facility and great customer service.
You can go 20 miles to a big sporting goods store and get your bow (same, very well know brand) for a little less. BUT, you may get it set up right, or, you might get a guy that was selling golf shoes yesterday and doesn't know jack about bows?
They sell more bows than I do, they are right in the mall and have more traffic.
I get to fix a lot of their setups
The more serious archers are starting to come to me for everything.
Yesterday I sent a dozen arrows to Reno NV. These are arrows the customer could buy anywhere. Except, he wanted custom wraps and fletching. I gave him a good price but he could've saved money by getting them somewhere in Reno and the Reno shop could've got the same wraps and fletch i did.
Why would a person do that if price is the only thing that matters? Obviously that is not how this customer does his buying.
Maybe, just maybe it was that when he contacted me, I was excited about his business and happy to special order in the components needed to make his arrows for him. Maybe his local shop was not? I don't know.
Maybe, he had seen on the "net" a couple times when I have intervened on behalf of a customer to get an issue taken care of by the factory that their local dealer was ignoring? I do not know?
Some salespeople "go the extra mile" I tend to go the "extra 10 miles".
I feel that does add value. Most of my customers, I think, would agree. |
Supertoon
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 09:47 am: |
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I sorta hope the market will gently swing back to one on one service like our parents knew. I think I have about had it with big box. The purchase of my zumo was a good example (for me anyway) I chose not to buy at a reduced price on the net and went with a local dealer working out of a small shop. We spent about two hours going over the thing at his store and I am positive any warranty issues will not be a problem. Any salesman that goes the extra 1 or 10 miles for me will probably have a customer for life. |
Electraglider_1997
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 10:30 am: |
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The dealership I got my Buell from has it all. They've got the huge beautiful Harley Building, babes, a zillion bikes, friendly parts people, clothing, knowledgeable service people that own Harleys and Buells, and they serve free hot dogs every weekend. And best of all, if you've got the balls, they will deal. If you don't have the nerve to go head to head with the salesman, then I'm sure he will get top dollar out of you. They are a volume dealer that have a lot of folks on the payroll. I believe they understand that to move bikes some people will pay more than others. It all evens out I'm sure to some average price for each given model of bike.
Personally, I don't trust salesman very much but I can be won over given time. I figure if they give me a good deal and then treat me good well after the sale then they are alright in my book. That certainly doesn't mean I won't low-ball a price next time a bike tickles my fancy. If he's on commission, he can get the big fat commission from the next guy, not me. Hey, I'm there looking to buy a bike, not to become buds with the salespeople.
When I bought my ULY, I happened to, just by luck, pick a salesman that didn't have to run the price by some fictitious head guy in another room. I gave him a price I'd pay, he got on the computer, then said, "We can do that", and that was that. That was Oct of 05', and I had to wait a month or 2 for it to arrive. OTD with full hard bags and tour pack for $11,500. Taxes and plate were extra at the DMV. And I've got a lifetime 10% discount on clothing, parts, and accessories. That's standard with both Harley dealers in Omaha, NE. I'm certain, other BadWebbers have done better, but I felt I did alright.
(Message edited by electraglider_1997 on October 11, 2007) |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 10:36 am: |
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"Some salespeople "go the extra mile" I tend to go the "extra 10 miles".
I feel that does add value. Most of my customers, I think, would agree."
Dave, all of your Buell customers felt that way because of all the good things they had to say about you here on BadWeb. I hope your doing good with your new business, but we sure do miss you selling Buells! You were and still are the most knowledgeable salesperson I've ever met regarding the Buell motorcycles. |
Daves
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 12:06 pm: |
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Thank you Don |
Jmhinkle
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 03:04 pm: |
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"Some salespeople "go the extra mile" I tend to go the "extra 10 miles".
I feel that does add value. Most of my customers, I think, would agree."
Like I said Daves, you are a stand out man when it comes to what you do and I wish you eternal success at anything you do.
Strictly in my opinion though exactly what EG said is the only way to deal with vehicle sales. "I happened to, just by luck, pick a salesman that didn't have to run the price by some fictitious head guy in another room. I gave him a price I'd pay, he got on the computer, then said, "We can do that", and that was that." No matter how nice the salesman is to me will not determine how good the vehicle is and if it was a good value. Only the vehicle will do that. |
Chrisgrant
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 04:16 pm: |
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I deal with salespeople in a little different way. I really don't like to dicker on price so I tell them that I AM going to buy this car, bike or whatever I'm buying at the time from them or the guy down the street. I know what I'm willing to pay so I don't make them an offer. I ask them to give me there best price and I'll buy or walk out, I don't like do go back and forth. When I've done this before, they often give me a price that is lower than I was willing to pay to begin with and I save even more money than I had planned. This is why I like do do my homework before I step foot into the dealership of make a deal over the phone as I will be doing with this purchase since I have no local dealer.
I know that they are not going to loose money and they don't want me buying the same thing someplace else.
(Message edited by chrisgrant on October 11, 2007) |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 04:44 pm: |
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when I purchased my 2006 Ulysses, I was at the dealership when Buell's demo fleet was there so I rode several models and when I was done, one of their salesmen came up to me and was talking to me about the bike I had just rode. He offered me a discounted price on the Ulysses, I asked about a trade-in of my M2 Cyclone, he went out and looked at it, rode it,then came back to me with a trade-in figure and I said SOLD!!! No haggling or trying to beat-up the dealer for a better price. I was happy with the deal that they offered so it was then completed and I've been happy ever since!
Two weeks ago I was out riding and my rear brakes started squeaking because the pads were gone, I rode it to the dealership with no appointment, they looked at it and took it in and replaced the rear pads. I was back on the rode in less than an hour! I value my days off and enjoy the service I get to keep my motorcycle on the rode with no long wait for parts or service. At my 10,000 service, I had the race kit and a new rear tire put on so they gave me the dealer's demo to ride while my bike was being serviced.
I read stories on here where people have had their motorcycles in the shop for weeks and can't ride. I would rather pay extra to have my motorcycle running that go with-out it especially in the summer riding months! |
Chrisgrant
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 07:34 pm: |
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Now thats value. Everyone is happy. |
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