| Author | Message | ||
     Ejiii |
Greetings, Can anyone tell me what the freight and PDI costs are for an '08 Uly. Also, would anyone care to share what they paid for their Uly. I'm buying one for sure, maybe tomorrow. I want to be as informed as possible when I go to deal! Thanks | ||
| Rwcfrank |
Great question!!! I am watching! | ||
| Teeps |
Ejiii, You up for a break in ride to the Rock Store tomorrow? I usually leave my house around 8am. | ||
| B18c5 |
What is wrong with sticker price? Do you work for free? When you go to walmart do you ask for the best price on your loaf of bread? | ||
| Jmhinkle |
What is wrong with sticker price? It is "suggested" and merely a beginning point for the bargaining. Do you work for free? No, but we are not asking for free '08's are we? When you go to walmart do you ask for the best price on your loaf of bread? Yes, that is why I go to Walmart. They are cheaper on the same loaf of bread than the grocery store down the street. Any other silly question? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
B18c5, Next time you get the bill from a doctor that goes to your health insurance provider make sure you look at what the doctor has charged compared to what the insurance company allows for any given service (it's always way less). Think of dealer as the doctor and you as the insurance company. The dealer/doctor has an arbitrary exorbitant price well padded with setup, documentation fees, and anything else he hopes you will bend and take it up the wazoo to pay. You on the other hand have only limited money and will only pay a certain amount otherwise the dealer/doctor would gladly empty your bank account. If you don't think this is true you live in la-la land. | ||
| Teeps |
Well said Electra... | ||
| Ejiii |
I cut the '08 Uly deal yesterday. Will pick it up on Tuesday. I was out the door at $13,100 with a set of saddle bags included. PDI, freight, CA emissions ($200), docs, license and tax are all in that. I'm not sure if that is a good deal or not but I am satisfied. If this bike is as good as my XB9SX was I will be very satisfied! B18c5 - I know sales people need to feed their families and I know the dealer needs to make a profit but their jobs are to sell me everything they can at the highest price possible. That's what they do, they are paid for that and they would not be doing their jobs if they didn't. My job as a consumer is to be educated on the process and pricing. I had to go into this deal without knowing dealer invoice pricing. As a consumer that puts me at a great disadvantage. I tried to do the best I could under the circumstances. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being an educated consumer in today's world. | ||
| Karlsbad |
So what is a new bike worth ? If you are the dealer, lets assume Full retail with all expenses to get the bike to the showroom floor ready for delivery to the new customer /end user. So yes thats freight and prep maybe a couple bucks extra for that free shirt or hat and if you are lucky enough for a full tank, and maybe the first service on the house. If you are the consumer it has to be something less than the dealer is asking, thats why we shop at Costco, wallmart, sam club etc.. etc.. Now lets look at value, when you go to wallmart do they remember your name? Do they ask you how that last coat, pants, or whatever you bought are working out. Of course not they do not care, there is no VALUE So lets put a price on Value Whats a smile worth when you nail a hard corner perfectly that you have gone around a 100 times and always missed the apex or corrected your line mid corner. Say a $ 1.00 whats it worth when you go to your local dealer and they have donuts or Hotdogs on a saturday, and that big breasted cute accessories girl is serving them and your sales guy or gal says high to you asks hows the bike as you walk in the door and they seem happy you are there Say a $1.00 Whats it worth every time you wash your bike and you smile cuz you remember what a good time you just had getting it dirty so you could wash it again. Say a $1.00 I could keep going but you get the picture. We as motorcycle riders have so much more.. (insert what you want here) than non riders and most of them don't even get it. So back to price , Do want the bike? Can you truly afford the bike? Will it make your life better? (subjective) Every time you ride it will it make you smile? Would you forgo sex for a ride? (sick Bastard) Make your best deal, but price should really be the last thing you care about. $10,500.00 $11,500.00 $12,500.00 who cares? $ 2,000.00 over say a 5 year ownership period. Riding 200 times a year it will cost $2.00 a ride more if you paid full retail plus some extra. Just remember that extra smile on that corner $1.00 The cute parts girl serving the hotdogs on saturday $1.00 Everytime you wash it $1.00 That looks like 3 bucks two me so buy the new bike you will make at least a buck everytime you ride it. | ||
| Raceautobody |
Very well said Karl. Sometimes people get so caught up in getting a good deal they forget about value. When I bought my 08 Ully I hashed pricing with the dealer a little. But that was all in good fun and the sales man knew that too. In the end I had my mind made that I was going to buy. | ||
| Teeps |
Value? What good does that "value" provide; when even the most common part must always be ordered? Face it, Buell sells motorcycles despite the dealer. Not because of some perceived "value." I'd settle for a lot less, of this, "value" in exchange for having parts in stock. Oh yea, I don't wash my bike, so do I get a credit? Or do I get my dollar back? | ||
| Chrisgrant |
I will be getting mine in the spring of '08. I do want the best deal that I can get when I'm ready to buy. I don't have a local dealer and don't plan on going in for a visit on weekends, thats when I'll be riding. Value because he knows that I bought a bike from him, I don't think so. I will have to drive 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours in 4 different directions to get mine, so I plan to call all of these 4 dealers for the best OTD price. If I can save $100-1000 on the bike, thats more money in my pocket for gear, insurance, or accessories. I'm very curious what people are paying. Is dealer prep not included in the $11,495? | ||
| Ratbuell |
"their jobs are to sell me everything they can at the highest price possible" Rant Mode....ON. Um...bullshit. Sorry. There are some dealers who believe that and they prey on the uneducated suckers, but the good dealers know that List Price is just that - List Price. The factory picked that price...that VALUE...for a reason - industry competition, cost of doing business, etc. A dealer may sell one or two bikes at the "highest price possible", but once word gets out that a dealer is gouging, how many bikes do you think they'll sell, at least to educated customers? Right. None. I sell bikes for a living. I sold a VRSCD to a guy last week. Know what I made on the deal? $16.18. No kidding, no exaggeration. SIXTEEN DOLLARS (and that was GROSS; my net will be less than 10 after Uncle Sam gets his cut). For two days work with the customer, countless trips to the GM office to get answers to the "what can you do for me" question....sixteen dollars. Think about that next time you buy your wal-mart bread. This has been a problem in the industry of late - dealers have been blowing out motorcycles to keep their traffic up. What does that do? De-values the product. The flip side to that is the lower trade values when folks want to trade up, or into a newer unit. All the customers are up in arms about resale values plummeting ("that's it??" is a common response to the trade value price question) - that's because of two things. 1 - blowout pricing offered by some dealers, and demanded by most buyers today. 2 - improving the breed; it makes more people want to trade in so there's a used bike glut. (maybe a third - unreasonable expectations about the value of My Baby...but we won't get into that) The second is a good thing; the first is BS. And if you want your bike to be worth more than just the dirt and bugs you have to scrape off it, you'll stop trying to buy new bikes for next to nothing. If a used bike is worth New List minus X, what do you think happens to the value if you start out with a lower number and *then* subtract X? I understand wanting a good deal. I also - from the Other Side - understand the concept of a Fair Deal. Good deal / fair deal. One of those takes care of both people involved; one takes care of only one. You figure out which is which...and what happens when the folks who sell the bikes can't afford to sell them anymore. Who you gonna buy from then? Better start casting your own pistons in a coffee can like that old guy in Australia at that point...because nobody will be able to afford to "sell" (i.e. give) you any support. Parts supply is another issue altogether, and has no relevance here. If you need parts, email me and I'll get your parts to you as quickly as I can. At list price plus shipping. Fair price = fair timeframe, right? I like having butter on my bread from time to time. Yes, there is markup on bikes. The dealer has to pay employees, electric bills, facility maintenance, ad nauseum. What do you think pays for all those free hotdogs you eat on weekends? MSRP is there to help dealers set FAIR prices on the bikes for the public and to equalize the market. It is NOT the "start of the bargaining process", or at least it shouldn't be. Entitlement is the worst thing that's happened to the industry; buyers think for some reason they deserve a break. If you get a discount / break every time you walk in the door, what good does it do the dealer? FWIW, I think you got a more than fair price on your '08, especially considering how costly the bags are. That's your dealers' choice and I hope you enjoy the bike and the ownership experience. If you're ever on the east coast, stop in and say hi. Here in Maryland, MSRP plus freight and setup puts a 2008 Uly at 12,005. Taxes are $600 in MD (5%), tags $170 cash / 190 with lien. $12,795 on the road with lien filing, save $20 by paying cash. I have a blue one in stock right now and if I sell it I make a little more than $16...but not much. Come see me and help me get a loaf of bread for my wife and I. And next time you want to say something bad about dealers, keep in mind they may be watching and getting offended. We ride (and read) too, you know. Rant Mode...OFF. <sigh> (Message edited by ratbuell on October 07, 2007) | ||
| Karlsbad |
Teeps you bring up a good point about the dealer I happen to like our local dealer and they are doing a fair job. They do a great job on the Harley side and they are at least trying on the Buell side Much more than can be said for many of the other Harley dealers. As has been discussed on this site as well as numerous other sites until the Harley dealers can embrace something other than the stereotypical cruiser rider (Insert Clone here) they will fail. I know more about my Ulysses than any dealer I have talked to, So if you are out there (Dealers) pay attention, The dealership I frequent is trying and I think they will succeed. If they don't I will go back to buying other brands and spend my money elsewhere. Keep this in mind if your local dealer only sell 5-10 Buells a year don't expect a lot of stock be it parts, accessories or whatever Buell stuff you desire. Teeps I don't know about the wash credit, and value is almost always a perceived item and I always seem to find great value in most all motorcycles P.S. I hate to sound like a Dolt, but does your local dealer really know how you feel, or just the service guy and some parts guy. Talk with the dealer owner it may make a difference, or not. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
"$12,795 on the road with lien filing, save $20 by paying cash" Talk about pure BS. Rant all you want. you have so many holes in that story I don't know where to start. " A dealer may sell one or two bikes at the "highest price possible", but once word gets out that a dealer is gouging, how many bikes do you think they'll sell, at least to educated customers?" I think you just let your secret out. Good luck with those prices, buddy. I now know another stealer to stay away from. No service, no value, no big titted accessory girl, no set-up fee is ever part of my "value" equation. Value is stictly bang for the buck. BTW, I have a great dealer who provides all those things to many riders daily at far less prices that you claim. "And next time you want to say something bad about dealers, keep in mind they may be watching and getting offended. We ride (and read) too, you know." Good ones won't be offended. They know and sell accordingly and still make plenty of money. Gougers are probably extremely offended because the caviar and Dom fund is getting low. | ||
| Bigkuri |
No comment re ratbuell post, with the exception of: "Better start casting your own pistons in a coffee can like that old guy in Australia at that point" If that's meant to be Burt Munro you are in trouble matey....  | ||
| Karlsbad |
Ejiii Congrats on the new ride So the perfect deal was struck. the three elements to make a deal a good deal were obtained. 1. You are happy 2. Salesman is happy makes a living 3. Dealer is happy sold another bike adds to population sells parts /service/accessories. Capitalism at it's finest | ||
| Ratbuell |
Bigkuri - I loved the Munro story, just couldn't remember his name off the top of my head. Personally I think the man and his story are great...and I wish I could *install* a piston as well as he could make one in his shed, LOL. No offense intended, just illustrating a point was all  Upon reflection, perhaps "that old guy" wasn't the best choice of words, but all I could see in my head was Sir Anthony's face with a shock of windblown white hair... For JMHinkle - I'd love to hear some of the "holes" you've identified. Please, illuminate those of us who do this for a living and obviously don't know as much as you do...and if you have issue with the "save $20 by paying cash"...take a look at http://www.marylandmva.com/AboutMVA/FEE/default.ht m#VehicleRegistration and look at the fee for "security interest filing". Hm. $20, neat-o, no holes. We don't mark up for financing or down for cash, only pass on the state's fees to the customer (with no markup!) for filing the information. Caviar and Dom? Not for me, I'm fine with Coors Lite and Doritos. And bear in mind, I'm a salesperson - not a dealer principal. Waaaay far down the foodchain. My newest bike is a '98 because I can't afford (nor do I want or need) anything newer (although the 1125 is one hell of a ride). I ride my '95 every day, and my profile isn't filled with half a page of bitching about my bikes. "Too upside down to get out of it."? Do us a favor and stop posting, and let the rest of us enjoy our bikes and the badweb. And in the interest of keeping others from having to see any more of this drivel...if you wish to share the "holes" in my story with me, go ahead and PM me and save some bandwidth. You'll have to forgive me if I don't see fit to take this any further in public. | ||
| Bigkuri |
Hey Ratbuell, no worries. My dad plays cards with Burt's son every Thursday, so we are all a little sensitive Not to mention mixing aussies with kiwis, (which is not too bad now given the state of the world cup rugby!) Cheers! | ||
| Dynasport |
$16 profit on a bike sold at list? Why would anyone even bother? Is it the accessories and service department that make it worthwhile? There has to be some money in it somewhere. And BTW, the bike industry has done this to themselves. Harleys are not the rare commodity they were years ago and so used values have dropped. Plus, so many occasional riders bought bikes with home equity loans and that market is not doing so well lately. Hence more bikes on the used market. It all adds up to a not as rosy picture for the dealership I am sure. It was only a few years ago that I walked into a HD dealer and they had every new bike marked up a minimum of $500 over list, depending on popularity. I doubt they are doing that anymore. I know I walked out empty handed. In fact, it was things like that, that caused me to buy used from an individual. I think I made a fair deal with him. At the time anyway. Not long afterward the market dropped even more and I could have picked up a similar bike for hundreds of maybe even a thousand or two less. Oh well. For me the solution is to buy something you like and keep it forever. I am amazed by people on forums who say they have owned 10, 20, or even 70 bikes. They must be a better wheeler dealer or much richer than me. Night all. Dan | ||
| Dentguy |
Wow, first the talk about "whats wrong with sticker price?". Then "price should really be the last thing you care about". Come on are you guys serious? Whats wrong with negotiating? I'm not trying to start an argument and I know we are talking about bikes, but have you guys bought a new car or a house? Did you pay full price? If you did then discussion over. Maybe thats just your style. If you didn't then why should you pay full sticker on a bike unless the market demands it. Ratbuell..as for the 16 dollars per sale I hope you are getting other compensation. If not I'm sorry. By the way I did pay sticker price on my Uly in Sept.05 because the market demanded it then. (Message edited by dentguy on October 07, 2007) (Message edited by dentguy on October 07, 2007) | ||
| Ejiii |
I must say, I did not think my post would foster such lively discussion! First of all I don't by bikes or really anything else for it's resale value. I buy it because I want it. And you can say BS but the salesman's job is to sell the most at the highest price. Any good salesman knows you can always come down in price you can never go up! A dealer will start at MSRP or at "adjusted market value" so the savvy consumer needs to start at invoice. That way an equitable price is reached. That's what negotiation is all about, it's business! No one needs to get their knickers in a twist. This is reality of the marketplace, business in the 21st century. Now that I got what I feel is a good deal my dealer is going to get all my service work for the life of this bike, plus parts, accessories, completely satisfied on their JD Powers survey, repurchase intent and Lifetime Owner Loyalty. There is a lot more value in a customer than the mark up on a motorcycle. | ||
| Midnightrider |
A looong time ago when I was part of a "DINK" couple (dual income no kids) and had some disposable income we were in the market for second vehicle. I wanted something fun, some sporty, and something that might actually appreciate in value rather than depreciate. I did my research and ended up with a collectible Porsche. Two years later with a baby, another on the way, the wife "retired" as a full-time mother,and orders for overseas (active duty Air Force) I decided to sell the Porsche. We were in Texas at the time and this was when the oil market first "crashed". The paper was full of foreclosed homes, bankruptcies, and Rolexes for sale at a fraction of their value. My market of potential buyers dried up almost overnight. I took a bath when I sold the car. I was still friends with the guy I bought the car from, and he provided the best summary of the whole event. The original selling price, the price you paid, the "book" value - they are all irrelevant. The real value is exactly what someone will pay the day you decide to sell. When I bought my 2006 Uly I haggled with 3 different dealers. Nobody would budge from MSRP. The best deal I got was when one dealer offered a 30 day 10% off any accessories you but package and let me apply it to the hardbags. In my experience no dealer is going to sell you something at a price lower than they want. But you can't blame someone for trying to get a lower price. More than once I have gone to a national chain (Goodyear and Harley Davidson are two examples) to get a price quote for something. When the quoted price was high, I mentioned that I thought that was high and said "never mind - I can get the identical item from XYZ at a lower price" Almost without fail they will try to match the price. In the two examples above, I saved over $125 on the purchase of 4 tires for my truck and nearly $40 dollars on a set of Scorpion Syncs for the Uly. And basically all I did was ask. I like to support the merchants I do business with on a regular basis but I don't feel the need to bleed doing it. I don't know how it works at HD-Buell, but I have had several friends who sold cages for a living. All of them earned a flat rate for selling a unit. Didn't matter what the selling price was. Differences between the MSRP and the closing price affected the dealer, not the salesman. At least not directly. Lastly, although Ratbuell has admirably opted to take his debate off the forum, I have personally dealt with him ( no, I didn't buy my Uly there) and believe and trust what he says. He can see this issue from a different perspective than most of us and that should be some valuable information to anyone who really wants to listen. Now my rant is "Off"} | ||
| Jmhinkle |
"and if you have issue with the "save $20 by paying cash"..." You read the wrong part. I quoted your whole sentence, but only needed "$12,795 on the road with lien filing" If you think that price is "fair" or a "value" then you are sadly mistaken. What the hell is the point of saving $20 when you're sticking it up your customers ass for $1300???? I hope you supply KY for that $1300 over charge. Dentguy is also right. If you aren't making commission on vehicles sold, but merely profit made then you are taking it in the Ass from your boss. Dealership secrets are no longer on the inside anymore. If you sell a Uly at list + freight, your dealership still makes money. Anything on top of that is all padding. BTW, my wife was in finance for years until she got so sick of the sneakiness and underhanded tricks that she had to do for the different dealerships hourly to screw the customers out of any little thing that she washed her hands of the whole industry. Let us not forget that the reason dealerships no longer like cash customers is because of the kickbacks they get from lenders on interest rates too. They are amazingly hefty. BTW, if you have a problem with me posting the problems I've had with my bike get the F*** off the board. They didn't put a problems/miles section in there to ignore reality. No I haven't been happy with my purchase, but I am happy with the price I paid for it and I would like to help others avoid my troubles. I try not to rip Buell as a company, but I won't hide the issues I've had with my nightmare of a bike. And lastly, here is some of those holes I spoke of. If a bike sold at MSRP, a dealer can include a full set of luggage and still make a good penny on the sale. In my state, with 3% tax and $50 license fee) the dealer can also include TT+L without losing money. They don't have to charge set-up. Do you feel there is $500-$1000 in set-up of a new bike? Hah! Been there done that. I won't get specific with you on the numbers, but I have them and certain folks on here know how I have them. I must say that if you have people on here that trust you and believe you, you are a very good salesman. Keep up the good work. | ||
| Court |
Ejiii: You did great and you're going to really enjoy the Buell. Price is not what you are "buying"; it is what you are "paying". Paying is the money, buying is the entire ownership experience. Ride safely and enjoy your Buell. Court | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Some of my philosophies on purchasing big ticket items like cars and motorcycles: 1) Never want that vehicle so bad that you have "SUCKER" emblazoned on your forehead for all to see. Salesmen can smell you coming. 2) If you think the sales guy is lying to you about anything then for certain he is. 3) If the sales guy starts cutting down other brands, then he's not only a liar but also a jerk. 4) If they have to order a bike for you because they are out or don't have the color you want then expect them to give you a great deal because they don't have any inventory carrying cost on a sure thing sale. If they won't agree to a better deal then they are screwing you but only if you don't walk. 5) Never ever pay Documentation fees and if they feed you a BS line about it being the law then they are liars. My Toyota dealer said they had to collect the Doc Fee because it it was a State law. I told him to take it out of their side of the deal because I refuse to pay Doc Fees. He relented very quickly so I can only assume he was breaking the commandment about lying. 6) Never buy extended warranties. If the bike is that unreliable then I don't want it. If the dealer is really pushing these sorts of things then he is trying real hard to empty your bank account. 7) If you like the hard bags that are an option then either they throw them in for free to seal the deal (they did on my bike) or they at least throw them in for their cost. 8) Make sure that any deposit is fully refundable. If it isn't then you better look elsewhere. 8) Make sure you and the dealer both agree what the "out the door cost" is. If they renege with some special BS fee then demand your deposit back. That fee will quickly disappear. 9) Never let the salesman make you feel sorry for him or the dealer about how unreasonable you are being. The second you start seeing things his way is the second that you start paying too much and that welt on your forehead starts blinking "SUCKER". | ||
| Cccpull |
Electraglider_1997   | ||
| Gsron |
As posted before I'm in the market for a new Uly. Well I stopped at the local dealer Sat and they had a blue 08 fresh out of the box sitting in the warehouse. It still had the protective plastic on it when I was there. The sales manager quoted me $12,900ish (I don't remember the exact #, but $50 bucks one way or the other rounded it to $12,900) OTD. He said, "thats sticker + fees, we'll start there when you're ready to buy". I'm thinkin next Sat is gonna be an expensive day as the GS hasn't been sold yet....... | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
If that doesn't include fed, state, and local taxes and plates and everything else then you'd better ask to at least get kissed first before the screwing begins. | ||
| Chrisgrant |
So do ya think that we should be paying msrp = tax/tag is a good price? I think that $11,000 OTD sounds like a fair deal for the dealer and comsumer.What do you guys think. Did you pay more or less than msrp. Anyone with real numbers on a 2008 Uly, feel free to PM. BTW, SC Taxes are $300.00 + tag/title +-$30.00 (Message edited by chrisgrant on October 08, 2007) |
