| Author | Message | ||
     Adrian_8 |
Aachemy...no special tools other than a hammer and a steel or preferable brass rod. I actually cut the shaft off an old screwdriver and ground it to size. You want a square end rod. Set the wheel on 3 pieces of wood to protect the wheel and brake rotor. You can gently heat the hub with a heat gun or go easy with a propane torch..not really necessary. Put the rod in the wheel and tap on bearing race going evenly all around the bearing driving the bearing out even and straight. The tube spacer will fall out now (check the ends of spacer for damage) and then knock out the other bearing. Start the new bearing in straight and level. Tap only on the OUTSIDE of the new bearing, go slow and even, once started you can set the old bearing on top and use it to hit on..tap in flush, flip wheel over, drop spacer in and do the same procedure with a heated hub. Just before the last bearing is all the way in, line up the spacer with the inner bearing race then finish the final seating...no big deal. | ||
| Dirt |
Although I've already listed this info in another thread, I'll post it here as well. 2007 Ulysses Build Date - 09/06 Miles at Failure - 11,500 Percentage of Riding Off-Road - 0% Percentage of Riding Two-Up - <1% All Weather Rider Y/N - Yes Dealer/Mechanic Performed Tire Swap Y/N - Original Tire Outward Signs Were Evident Prior To Failure - None that I could see and I checked the bike over pretty good at the 10k service Bike has been washed a total of 2 times since I bought it in January 07. No high pressure washer was used. | ||
| Lorazepam |
Nov 06 build date 13.5k offroad 0% (unless you count gravel as off road) 2 up 60% several 600 plus mile days all weather rider I have changed my tires, following the manual, hand tools only. Discovered by checking with wheels off the ground. I never pressure wash my bikes for this very reason. The service writer said mine was the 3rd Uly to need bearings at my dealer. | ||
| Dr_greg |
Build Date? S/N 44, so pretty dang early Miles at Failure? 31K miles Percentage of Riding Off-Road? 5% Percentage of Riding Two-Up? 0% All Weather Rider Y/N? Y Dealer/Mechanic Performed Tire Swap Y/N? no one else touches my bike Outward Signs Were Evident Prior To Failure? "squeak-squeak"...it didn't fail, this is PM | ||
| Greenagain |
Considering that the Uly has a different ( longer) swingarm, are the bearings a different part number too? | ||
| Xbimmer |
Build date: 10/05 Current mileage 32k since new 05/06. Off road: less than 50 mi off pavement in that time. Two up: 20% All weather: Avoid only major rain, if I have the choice. Dealer tire swap: NEVER! I haven't let these clowns touch my bike since they screwed up the 1k/5k services, except for warranty stuff which they've also blown. I'm stressing big time right now because I have to bring it in tomorrow for a warranty stator replacement...  Outward signs: Nothing so far knock on wood. I'm going to have the wheel off again next week for another Sync you bet I'll be checking closely. This whole issue is crazy for an adventure-oriented bike. | ||
| Marc |
Wouldn't you know it...the day after I read this thread, by rear wheel bearing failed on the way home from work. I nursed my Uly in to my HD/Buell dealer and they have ordered the bearings and will be replacing both the left and right rear wheel bearings under warranty. My dealer is also going to replace the rear cylinder cooling fan under warranty which sounds like it is full of small rocks and bound to fail soon. I'm very happy to have a dealer who stands behind my bike and does not give me any problems with warranty repairs. Why warranty will be up in DEC 07 so I hope I've got all the bugs out by then. After reading this thread and my own rear wheel bearing failure experience I would recommend Buell Reliability Engineers strongly consider adding a 10,000 mile rear wheel bearing re-packing and inspection service, or simply find a better rear wheel bearing solution to keep these failures from happening in the first place. I have a paid for slot in the 8/16 Joliet, IL Autobahn Country club Buell track day and will be lucky to have the bearings arrive and replaced by then. My dealer is going to do the best they can to have my Uly back in time for the Buell Track Day. 2006 Ulysses Build Date - 12/05 Miles at Failure - 17,600 Percentage of Riding Off-Road - 3% Percentage of Riding Two-Up - 0% All Weather Rider Y/N - Yes Dealer/Mechanic Performed Tire Swap Y/N - Yes Outward Signs Were Evident Prior To Failure - None that I could see until I felt the weird vibration from the rear wheel. As I checked the bearings the entire rear seal on the right side was chewed up and gone. | ||
| Jlnance |
Thanks to Dr Greg for posting the part number on ADV.  If anyone wants to stock up: http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-Single-Sealed-Groove-Be aring/dp/B000MNDFX4 | ||
| Jlnance |
I've been doing bearing research since last night. One thing I noticed is this bearing has a maximum temp rating of 212F. http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=4021061&r=0&type=a (note: I think that page has the dynamic and static load ratings swapped) Your swingarm gets hot enough when you ride that you can't touch it. I wonder if the issue might be heat? If you don't mind paying $53 per bearing, this one might work better: http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=8372222 This one looks pretty good too, and it's only $29: http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catalog.do?e=10&s=6366801 (Message edited by jlnance on August 10, 2007) (Message edited by jlnance on August 10, 2007) | ||
| Jlnance |
This is fun. I found this PDF document on bearing failure. It would be interesting if someone with failed bearings could disassemble them and try to figure out, based on the info in the doc, what caused the failure. http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/pdf.do?id=61 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If the internal heat is above 212*, there shouldn't be water in the bearings post failure. Several have seen orange rusty "spooge" coming out of the bearing, spacer and hub. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
On August 2nd I wrote how I changed the back tire (with a friend that has a NO-MAR) and found my bearings to be very tight and notchy turning. Since the dealer had to order the bearings on warranty I decided to pull the seals and see what the problem was. I used a "very" small flat blade screwdriver to pry out the seal which was extremely easy to do on both sides of the back wheel. The bearings looked great with blue grease and I surmised that the bearing holes were machined too tight and so the bearings became over-squeezed when pressed in. Anyway I finger wiped and squeezed more wheel bearing grease all the way around the top of the bearings and then finger pressed the rubber seal back into place on both bearings. If you are wondering, the seal goes back into its proper place with no trouble at all. I put the wheel back on per service manual torque specs and proceed to ride about 200 or so miles during the wait for the warrantied bearings. A week later the bearings showed up (a day before I was planning to leave for Sturgis). I took the back wheel off and noticed that the rear wheel bearings that I had re-greased turned easily on both sides of the wheel. Since my dealer had felt the back bearings when they would hardly turn I decided that I would tell them that I had popped the seals and added grease and now they seemed better but I still wanted new bearings. They didn't disagree and a few hours later I had my wheel back with brand new bearings. I would recommend popping out the seals and inspecting rear wheel bearings anytime the back wheel is off the bike. Adding grease to rear wheel bearings is no big deal and only takes a couple of minutes to accomplish and is certainly easier to do than changing out expensive bearings that might not really need changing but just maintaining. It's like changing oil if you ask me, just not as often. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
I have done the same thing,,,just don't overdo it as the grease will ooze out and could get slung on the brake rotor...on the first ride have a rag to wipe off any excess that appears. | ||
| Michael1 |
Posted by Jlnance: This is fun. I found this PDF document on bearing failure. It would be interesting if someone with failed bearings could disassemble them and try to figure out, based on the info in the doc, what caused the failure. I did on mine. I've done plent of bearing failure reports in my lifetime and these are classic lubrication failure. Lub fails, causes the bearing to heat up, this expands the bearing, inluding the cage, causing a preload condition and the bearing prematurely fatigues (spalls on the raceway). On mine everything happened as I said above, but I am unsure of whether the cage failure came before the preload condition or not. The cage is the weakest part of a bearing. The rivit type cage tends to break where it is rivited when heat is introduced. My bearings were gone in about 20 miles. Granted I was off road at the time, then came on road and going 60 ~ 65 mph and they conked out QUICK. The drive sprocket side of mine failed. The brake side was like new...but I made them take it out and replace it. The bearing was in pieces when I gave them the bike. The inner race split in two circumfrentially (typical of a preloaded bearing), the cage was in pieces (again, heat/preload) and the outer raceway was heavily spalled. Plus, it was missing two balls (just like my dog). So..yeah, my bearing was so far gone, i couldn't tell if it was the spacer being too long, causing reduced clearance and then heat then preload then failure...or if it was the seal crapped out, causing fialed lubrication then heat then preload then failure. Oh well... I'll get somehting I like here soon.} | ||
| Soloyosh |
Are the bearings simply sealed or do they have contact seals? I know contact sealed bearings are generally rated for a lower RPM, but even at 120mph the rpm is nowhere near what these bearing are rated for. | ||
| Jlnance |
If the internal heat is above 212*, there shouldn't be water in the bearings post failure. Several have seen orange rusty "spooge" coming out of the bearing, spacer and hub. That is true if the failure goes like "heat to 212 and the bearing fails instantly." I'm not sure exactly what happens when the bearing temperature exceeds 212, but it may be that the grease viscosity drops, allowing it to flow around the seal. If that is what happens, it would create greaseless spaces inside the bearing which could hold water. Based on what Michael1 and Electraglider report, the grease failed. This is consistent with your rusty spooge report, as grease keeps water out of the bearing. Assuming it is a lubrication failure, what could cause it? The possible causes I've seen mentioned so far are: 1 - Pressure washing the grease out. 2 - Grease overheats and runs out. I think Electragliders "squeezed too tight" scenario would result in #2, but I'm not sure about that. Perhaps its a case of the Grease not being sufficient to protect the bearing from the forces applied to them. Anyone have anything else to add to that list? I'm still fixated on the temperature thing. FB, I seem to recall you having an infrared thermometer. The next time you take a ride in this hot weather, would you measure the swing arm temperature? And thanks for starting this thread. We have actual facts to work with now. | ||
| Jlnance |
Are the bearings simply sealed or do they have contact seals? They are double sealed. I'm not sure exactly sure what that means, but I think it's better than a single seal and not as good as a contact seal. Oops, I'm wrong. Here is from the catalog page I posted a link to:
(Message edited by jlnance on August 10, 2007) | ||
| Dr_greg |
I removed my rear wheel bearings last night using the "XB wheel bearing removal tool" from American Sport Bike. With all respect to Adrian, I don't see how you could possible remove these bearings without a tool like that. My bearings felt smooth and had plenty of grease, but one of them was squeaking, so in go the new. BTW, seemed like there was quite a bit of water inside the wheel. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Thanks for those links, Jlnance. This is getting interesting. Anybody know whether all those 6006 bearings will directly swap with the things in our wheels? I would have no problem whatsoever putting Viton-sealed SNR's into my bike, even at $53 each. | ||
| Jlnance |
Xbimmer - I don't know that they will swap, but I assume they will. Make sure the load ratings are comparable. As I posted above, I think the static and dynamic loads are reversed on the page for the koyo bearings I posted. I'm going to buy a set of the $29 bearings to have on hand just in case. It would be nice if the front was the same size. Anyone know? | ||
| Jlnance |
BTW, seemed like there was quite a bit of water inside the wheel. That seems to be a common theme. I've never seen water inside my wheel (and my bearings have not failed,) but there is some corrosion on my axle, so perhaps it does get in there. There are only 3 ways I can think of for water to get in there: 1 - Around the outside of the bearing 2 - Through the seals & grease 3 - Through the gap between the axle and bearing Number 1 seems unlikey as it should pressed in there fairly tightly. If 2 is the case, it seems to me that the bearing was already bad before the water got in there. I'm thinking a good bearing has sufficient grease to keep water from flowing through it. Can someone confirm this? Number 3 is an interesting case. I can think of two failure modes. The simple one is the water just sits behind the bearing and eventually permiates the seal and grease. The nastier one is if the wheel gets water in it causing the axle to corrode inside the bearing, sealing the water inside. Then, every time the wheel got hot, pressure would build up inside the wheel, forcing pressurized water into the back of the bearing. The Uly does have different wheels than the other XBs. I wonder if it is missing drain or vent holes. | ||
| Xbimmer |
The front bearings are smaller and marked "6005". It does seem odd that most of the failures seem to be at the rear, when the front wheel's internals are much more exposed to the elements including the backsides of the bearings. | ||
| Paochow |
Ok, I just bought a set of bearings from CBRbearing.com (NTN Japanese bearings ~$30). I have 11K on the stock ones and figured I'd be proactive and swap them before the Colorado mountain trip I have planned. I was going to swap the rear bearings out this weekend, but was curious about all the talk of special tools or you will damage the wheel. I've always done mine like Adrian8 with a hammer and punch. I was reading on the Knowledge vault that wheels like this are only good for 4-5 bearing changes if done with the proper tools, less if with hammer and punch. Am I better off just regreasing the stock ones and bringing the new ones with just in case? | ||
| Iugradmark |
Paochow, Good questions. I suggested a while back to make frequent bearing changes (perhaps when changing tires) and was told that this was not advisable as it would prematurely ruin the wheels. What is the chance we can get someone from Buell to finally weigh-in on this topic? | ||
| Fwiw |
not advisable as it would prematurely ruin the wheels. Seems like an after-market wheel is opportune. Anyone want to get rich and bring one to market? | ||
| Etennuly |
Many years ago I raced three wheelers in enduro type events. This included deep submergent water crossings, mud over the tires, high speed long runs on dirt roads, high torque loads on steep hill climbs, basically the gauntlet thrown at it. On my 1984 ATC 200X rear wheel bearings suffered not just from the conditions they were used in, but the turning loads on a live axle with a contact patches near two square feet and soft really grippy tread. The bearings on the rear axle of the ATC, although larger and better sealed than those on the Uly, were doomed to fail and did. Some fellow riders and I came up with the idea to drill and tap the rear hub for a grease fitting. That allowed us to fill the gap between the bearings in the hub with grease. It's hub is designed similarly to that of the Uly's rear wheel hub. I would pump the cavity between the bearings and the bearing spacer with water proof axle grease. Once it was full it would displace any water that tried to get in and it only took a couple of pumps with a grease gun to keep it full for maintaining it. I never had to change those bearings again. I don't see why this cannot be done on the rear wheel hub of the Uly. When you pump it full a little grease should squeeze out between the bearing and the axle. There could be a little more frequent clean up at the seals as the grease heats up in the summer but I don't see any reason not to try it. I have over 19,000 miles on my Uly and I have been pulling the seals and greasing the bearings from the outside like Electro has. I then coat the outside of the seals with anti-seeze compound after I reinstall the axle. For non off road and riding the streets in the rain this seems to be enough. | ||
| Jlnance |
Number 3 is an interesting case. I can think of two failure modes. I thought of another one. If there is water in the wheel, and the wheel spins, centrifugal force will force the water onto the sides of the wheel cavity. This water is under pressure and perhaps that is forcing it under the bearing seal. | ||
| Michael1 |
ALL 6006 BEARINGS WILL FIT. There is an industry standard just for such instances. Some mfg's have different tolerances, but they are made to the same specs (30mm ID x 55mm OD x 13mm W) I for one, would not "splurge" and put in Viton seals. We don't have a problem with heat. Viton is good for temps up to around 300F. Standard seals are good for 180F. So if you have a seal good for 300F, where's your grease good for 300F???? Standard grease is good up to about 180F as well. No need to spend money where you don't have to. It's a mix of water intrusion past the single lip seals. They say double contact seals. Double means, one on each side. A set of dual lip double seals will fit the bill. For Koyo is would be a 600062RKC3 (others, I don't remember off hand). The double lip seal is a heavy contact single lip seal on the outside of the bearing with a light contact seal towards the inside of the bearing. These are typically used in agriculture applications. And with some of the tractoring and plowing my Uly does... I have a set on order. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Group buy anyone? Minimum order is $100. That will buy 11.5 sets. Roughly $9 plus shipping per set.  http://www.a1bearing.com/Detail.tpl?rnd=6237&cart= EBFAD460-17DB-48AA-9902-9A54A49B28E5&sku=6006-2RS- C3 | ||
| Michael1 |
Lowflyer... I'd be careful with that reseller. Guys like those either carry grey market items or the items we don't want for the back ends of our Uly's (Chinese/India/Brazil/Eastern Block/etc...) |
