| Author | Message | ||
     Lowflyer |
"I have the scoop, it works." How do you know it works? My bike runs fine without the extra scoop. 6900 miles and climbing. How the fcuk would I ever know if a $250 scoop would make a difference? I would love to see some actual test data. I don't typically buy accessories because a HD tech tells me I should. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Yep...fan cools the rear cylinder...front gets plenty of cooling wind. Not a big mystery really. Air cooling has been around for a long time. All Harleys with the exception of the V-Rod use a 45 degree V-twin and I've seen lots of those bikes doing parade duty, precision drill team riding, and police duty and they don't even have the benefit of a fan. Even without a fan an air cooled engine will cool itself by convection (hot air rising and drawing up cooler air). Not as effective as fan forced cooling. Just seems to me that if there was a big need for a right side scoop, it would be there. I've now spoken with Buell racers, long time owners, and directly with a Buell engineer...all of them say there is no need for a right side scoop. If mine overheats, melts down, or has heat related issues....then I'll think about additional cooling. Right now, I just let the fan do its job. | ||
| Brucelee |
You should ask that same Buell engineer if they will ever do a recall on the original 03 belt? Or, perhaps the mirrors? Or perhaps he is wrong! Perhaps. I'll stick with the scoop and NOT listen to the ridiculous fan. | ||
| Brucelee |
"If you are running hotter than 390 then the scoop is only cooling the thermostat and therefor preventing the fan from bring the temperature down to a factory predetermined optimum running temperature." That would be a neat trick. Lets see, I duct cool air directly to the back cyl, but it DOES NOT COOL the cyl. only the thermostat, which is IN the cyl. Hmm, how would this work? | ||
| Lowflyer |
For that cool air to have any effect, it must remove the hot air immediately surrounding the cylinder. If that cool air is colliding with the cool air from the left scoop and the cooling air exit path is still the same size, how then does the now hot air leave any faster? It seems to me that the airflow has to be increased in velocity as well as volume in order to realize any significant gains in cooling performance. What I see is that your right scoop likely maintains the temperature at 427.9 degrees while the bike is moving, but I would be interested to know the real effect. (Message edited by lowflyer on June 09, 2006) | ||
| Az_rider |
I live in the Phoenix area, and I was concerned about riding my Uly in the heat. My fan comes on a few minutes after I start my bike, and runs on high the entire time I am riding. I considered a right side scoop after reading all the posts, but decided to do some testing first. I bought a digital thermometer and started logging oil temperatures after my rides. When the air temp was below 100 degrees, my oil temps averaged about 200 degrees. I have ridden hundreds of miles in 105 - 110 degree weather, and the hottest oil temps I have logged are 230 degrees. Has anyone else checked oil temps after riding? If my engine was running hot, then wouldn't my oil temps be higher? I was told that I should add 10% to get a better picture of my true oil temps. Even bumping up my numbers by 10%, it appears that my fan and oil cooler are doing a good job of cooling my engine. Any comments? | ||
| Brucelee |
Yes, Erik addressed this once on the need for a fan on the back head. He indicated that the head temps got SO HOT that any oil in or near that oil got cooked almost immed. Hence the thermo controlled fan to avoid that extreme temp. So, measuring the temp at the dry sump does not address what is going on above it at the head. So, my conclusion is that dumping cool air on the back cylinder by way of a scoop is a good thing and is doing exactly what the fan is trying to do, only much more quietly. | ||
| Teeps |
Brucelee Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 02:54 pm: So, my conclusion is that dumping cool air on the back cylinder by way of a scoop is a good thing and is doing exactly what the fan is trying to do, only much more quietly. If this is true, that would make the bike that much more enjoyable to operate. | ||
| Lowflyer |
If it's not true, $250 looks better in my brokerage account than sucking wind on the side of my bike. I question how effective it really is. Hell, it only works when the bike is moving. The bike in motion makes the fan noise hard to discern anyway. However, if you get a warm fuzzy with it, I suppose all warm fuzzies come at a price. | ||
| Brucelee |
No warm fuzzies at all. My fan almost never comes on, even when I shut the bike off. Given the choice of having the bike sound like a GD weed whacker or a motorcycle, I will go with the scoop. Interesting how folks don't trust input from guys who actually HAVE the scoop vs the theory guys here. To each his own, Enjoy your fans! | ||
| Gowindward |
It sucks  air, kind of like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbubK2l4yD8 | ||
| Lowflyer |
"Interesting how folks don't trust input from guys who actually HAVE the scoop vs the theory guys here." It's not a lack of trust. It is a lack of hard data. I would believe fan cycle times and head temps if that is what we were talking about, but it's not. Saying "My fan almost never comes on, even when I shut the bike off" is very subjective. That said, my fan almost never comes on when the bike is moving. It will come on if stuck in traffic (like anyone's bike - single or dual-scoop) and sometimes when I shut the engine off. I ride 70+ mph to and from work 12 miles each way. The only time I hear the fan is when I shut the bike off when I get home from work and then it only comes on on really hot days. Of course, I don't hang around and listen to it for any type of enjoyment as you suggest. Quite plainly, it just isn't a $250 problem for me. Besides, given the design of the scoops I have seen, I doubt it would have any significant effect either way. I would sooner double the size of my left-side scoop than add a similar-sized scoop on the right. That is assuming that the standard scoops are asymmetrical for a reason, which I suspect they are. | ||
| Brucelee |
"Besides, given the design of the scoops I have seen, I doubt it would have any significant effect either way. I would sooner double the size of my left-side scoop than add a similar-sized scoop on the right. That is assuming that the standard scoops are asymmetrical for a reason, which I suspect they are." Gee, that is kind of subjective. I'd like to see hard facts on this. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I wear a good helmet, an iPod or ear plugs when riding - what fan? | ||
| 12x_infatuation |
Hey, trojan, surely you guys didnt just build this thing & hope for the best? Any test data to share? (heat transfer comparisons, not consumer trends!) | ||
| Lowflyer |
"Gee, that is kind of subjective. I'd like to see hard facts on this." My point exactly! | ||
| Brucelee |
I have all the data I need. The fan now runs MAYBE 5% as much as it did before the install. Which is still too much! | ||
| Lowflyer |
The important thing is that you are happy.  | ||
| Az_m2 |
I have no doubt that the stock cooling system works under every imaginable scenario and I'm sure the bikes do not need the added cooling of a right side air scoop. BUT . . . my fan runs on high constantly after warm-up, regardless of ambient temp, 30's, 40's, doesn't matter. If I could pay $250 to get the damn fan to shut up, I would be happy to do so. In fact, based on what others have posted, my bike appears to be running hotter than most and maybe the added cooling would be a benefit. | ||
| Brucelee |
"If I could pay $250 to get the damn fan to shut up, I would be happy to do so. In fact, based on what others have posted, my bike appears to be running hotter than most and maybe the added cooling would be a benefit" I highly recommend the scoop for you. Also, if you are not already doing so, a syn 20W-50 oil like Red Line will also help. Good luck. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I agree with the syn oil. I feel like I noticed a slight difference in my fan cycle time when I switched to syn oil. I have also noticed that my fan seems to operate less and less as the miles have piled on. That is all purely subjective of course (no data). Good luck with the scoop. | ||
| Aeholton |
One possible benefit of the right side air scoop that I haven't seen mentioned is possibly extending the life of the fan. My fan lasted 7 months before dying. I hope that this was just an anomaly. Otherwise, it's going to get expensive when warranty period is up. If it only has to come on a fraction of the time due to additional cooling from a right side scoop, the fan should last a lot longer. I'm still waiting for someone to develop a plastic right side scoop to match the left. When that happens, I will buy one. | ||
| Davo |
My reason for starting this topic was not to divide the "single scoopers" from the "double scoopers", It was merely an exercise in opening up the mind and not necessarily the head. I have posted an idea on the "Knowledge Vault" in order to deal with melt down, stop and go summer beach traffic. As many have pointed out, the right side scoop WILL keep the fan from running in a significant way. There is no point of contention regarding a statement that the RR has a right side scoop. My response is that the RR does not sit in gridlock summer traffic. As long as the bike is moving the double scoop out performs the single scoop. I am having difficulty with the concept that as long as the fan is not running the bike is running cooler. If the right side scoop keeps the ET/thermostat from reaching 428 then the electrical fan cooling system does not have an opportunity to operate. Does this mean the bike is running cooler? I don 't know and it appears nobody else does either until we check the numbers. | ||
| Brad1445 |
Has anyone explored a third party fan to reduce noise. All my bikes have fans but only one wakes the neighbors. I want it out. | ||
| Davo |
That is another interesting point to consider. If you are running 2 scoops and you are in the wind most of the time (i.e. the RR) then you could consider removing the fan completely but I would be concerned about shutting down without syn oil or it won't really be oil any more. The fan when it is not running is impeding the increased flow of air that the double scoop is delivering to the rear head. It is similar to putting on a great air cleaner without opening the exhaust. If the system is not balanced then it is not a system anymore. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I think some folks are just bothered by the fact that the fan runs period. I think there is a psychological 'thing' that makes one think that if a fan is running, it must be because the engine is on the verge of melting. I have yet to see anything resembling proof that the double scoop outperforms the single scoop. Testimonials are not proof. I mean, if I spent $250 on a mod, whether it worked or not, I am certain that if there was any discernible difference at all I would attribute it to the success or failure of the mod. It's only natural. Apparently, double dipping works to some degree, but I would like to see exactly how much before I dismiss Buell engineering for the aftermarket. I would love to see someone post a before and after comparison with real numbers. | ||
| Teeps |
Lowflyer Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:56 pm: I think some folks are just bothered by the fact that the fan runs period. I think there is a psychological 'thing' that makes one think that if a fan is running, it must be because the engine is on the verge of melting. <snip> I am not so much bothered by the fact that the fan runs. I'm bothered by how loud the dam thing is...when it's running at full honk. The Db. level of the cooling fan is something that Buell's Market Quality people should have considered, I.E. acceptable to buying public or not. I can't believe that anyone (at Buell) thought that this shrieking fan was ok for a production motorcycle. The fact (or fiction) that it is working as designed does not change the riders' experience. Lowflyer Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:56 pm: <snip> I would love to see someone post a before and after comparison with real numbers. I too would like to see some actual ET readings with and without the right side scoop and with and without the fan shrieking. I find it ridiculous that the fan must run at shrieking levels 95% of the time. Even during the coolest of riding conditions. And, with regard to replacing the fan with a quieter one, that's not going to happen and maintain the air volume that must be pulled through the area to keep the rear head cool. As a side bar; I recently installed a '05 XB12 ECM in my Uly (to see if it changed the surging in the 1000 to 2500rpm range.) The fan characteristics did not change. The jury is still out on the surge (problem.) | ||
| Brucelee |
I will keep riding in (fan) silence. Lowflyer can wait for the data. | ||
| 44mag |
Brucelee must be correct. Who needs data? After all, you can prove ANYTHING with facts!  | ||
| Brucelee |
Here are some facts for you. The thermo tells the fan to come on to draw air over the head when a certain temp is reached. I install the scoop, and the fan runs about 2-5% as much as it ever did before. So, I would suggest that this is a pretty clear sign that the head temps are cooler OR the thermostat is the dumbest design ever put on a bike. So, for all you naysayers, explain how the thermo is so designed to tell if the head temp drops due to the FAN's bringing in air or the scoop bringing in air. According to Eric, it measures head temps and activates the fan when the temp reaches a certain number. In summary, I really don't care who the hell buys the scoop. It is is just funny that you guys who don't actually have it are sitting here trying to argue that it can't really work. Do you need data to decide if a band-aid is good or does having the blood stop and your cut heal sufficient for you? Do you do this on ALL of your mods? Do any of you guys have the Buell Race kit? Did you do your own dyno on it to prove it works BEFORE you bought it and paid $600? I didn't. I bought it and wow, it really does work. So did you guys! I am done with this thread. I hope you guys enjoy having your cycle wounds like a Cuisinart when you stop for coffee. I will simply enjoy the quiet! PS- Looks bitchin' too! |
