| Author | Message | ||
     Tq_freak |
Anyone else had an issue with there clutch slipping? I just replaced the factory slave with the EBR unit and now when I really and whooping on it, High rpms at the top of 4,5,6th, I can hear and see it slip. I mean I can see the tach still climb but no mph increase. It has only done this 2-3 times on the way to work today. I REALLY want to fix in and not glaze it. Down low it works fine, still plenty of grunt and can pick the wheel up no problem. I think I might have overtightened the spherical nut, would that make sense? Its really hard to get a decent torque with that specialty socket. | ||
| Jdugger |
Yes, if you over-tightened the nut it could be an issue. Also, just loosening the bleed nipple might solve the problem IF a bunch of fluid squirts out. I'd need to see it other than that to help diagnose. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Thanks JD, As I have been thinking about it most of the morning (cant do anything about it while I am at work) I figure is has to be either of those two things. Either a little to much fluid or just a tad tight on the nut. Will have to check both when I get home. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Ok I am as lost as last years easter eggs, I came home, bleed the clutch and didnt get a squirt but got a little fluid. Loosened the spherical nut, Actually took it off and put a drop of fluid on the oring per the book and put it back together. Tightened to spec and its worse! took it apart again, this time I left the bleader open thinking maybe it was fluid bound and I got a false tq reading. Tightened it up again and still slipping. WTF Its instant too, blip the throttle and it slips. Dont get it. I just put the EBR slave in and yes I am using an allen to hold the center bolt as I tighten. If I wouldnt dump a bunch of fresh amsoil I would take the whole freakn cover off and swap the old one back in and see if its still there. | ||
| Jdugger |
You can pull the clutch cover with a very modest amount of oil loss. Catch it in a clean pan and put it back in at the end. Or lean the bike on it's side on a shop stool or something, and you won't loose a drop. Pull the clutch and measure the thickness in mm to a single decimal. I'll get you a clutch pack measurement this weekend to verify if it's all OK. You might also try installing the spherical nut with the bleeder loose, then bleeding the slave. Don't forget to push the slave piston in all the way and keep it there while tightening. But, something odd is happening here, because I'm in my clutch dang near every oil change and I never have this issue... in fact, if I have an issue, it's the opposite -- not getting enough clutch disengagement. | ||
| Brumbear |
If you turned the spherical nut without locking it you can cause yourseld a problem. That allen head does have an adjuster I believe and I just can't remember what I did to fix it as I had that problem when I first noticed the clutch seep. Sorry I can't be more helpful. | ||
| Kruizen |
That's where I'm at now, did new Barnett plates with EBR actuator and damn plates won't let go. I guess there are worse problems to have. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
JD is correct about the oil - if you tip the bike over far enough you won't lose any oil here's my tip - take the Spherical nut's o ring off- re-install the nut less the Oring see if that helps...if it continues to slip try loosing the nut 1/2 turn at time,,,don't take it too far out ( 2 turns max) as the damn spring behind the piston will push the piston out and the seals on the piston (if it's too far out) will stop sealing and you'll be awash in brake fluid. the only other two things I could think of ....(1) is the puller rod ( the "bolt" the spherical nut tightens on) has slipped out of it's bore and now you have caught the edge/step of the puller rod/bolt on the end plate causing the plates to be in a dis-engaged state when you tighten the spherical nut...the piston won't move ( no fluid to "bleed") and the clutch slips all the time....try loosing the nut all the way and check to make sure the puller rod/bolt isn't hung up...it's end ( where you start the Spherical nut) should be almost all way out to the end of the slave cylinder's bore ( where the slave piston goes) ....2 - sometimes I have gotten too much travel from the new clutch piston and the end plate in the clutch pack slips off the end of the clutch hub - wedging itself between the hub and the end clutch cover...the springs can't compress the pack - the clutch slips all the time...time to take a peek inside and see what's going on...hope this helps | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Kruz...typical of Barnett plates...on my old dirt bike (IT490) I would start it up and while in neutral pull in the clutch and rev the engine a coupe of times...once at idle - I would then engage a gear. I have Barnett's in my 1125 - but used the stock (Buell) springs - appears to be working fine ( but I still use the old dirt bike trick when I first start her up...just in case) | ||
| Tq_freak |
I did install the spherical nut with the bleeder loose and that didnt make a difference. Brumbear, I thought That might have happened and was trying to research that in the book. I havent found anything yet, To me it kinds looks like you dont want to turn it and risk tearing the vacuum assist diaphragm | ||
| Tq_freak |
Ok Nuts4mc I think you might be on to something I took the nut off and put a straight edge across the face of the cover (machined edge where the puck goes) and measured .360 from the that edge (zeroed the thinkness of my straightedge so it doesnt matter) seams like a lot going by what you said. when it is all tightend up I CAN get the slave to move, it moves only about .100 in the bore and I can get it to bleed no problem. but I think you might be right in that the puller rod/bolt has come out of adjustment and pushed in. ...Now to find that spec. Sidenote - Earlyer I had tried your Idea of backing the nut out a little bit and it worked, better clutch engagement but it still slipped up top in the power band. all this it REALY making me think that Rod is pushed in a little bit. | ||
| Kenm123t |
EBR had the same issue at Daytona slipping clutches and clutch failure due to burned disks The motors they had the problem with were new ones and clutches. Erik said they had run the same clutches more than one race before. But they were planning a teardown etc when they got home | ||
| Battyone |
The puller shaft can't move,it's held by the vacuum slipper assembly. Your new cylinder is a slightly different size to the original...or installed incorrectly! The simple fix is to use the spherical nut like an adjuster and set it where the clutch needs it. The nut will not fall off if not torqued tight...the shaft is locked,does not rotate and the nut is locked in the cylinder recess by it's "O"ring. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Batty I thought about that, that really it can act as an adjustment nut. I am like 99% sure I seated the base of the new slave correctly when I installed it. And the circlip went in with out an issue. I think I am still going to pull it apart and double check. I wonder if EBR will give me a print of the parts so I can verify they were machined correctly. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
...I doubt EBR will send you prints- just compare the old piston to the new piston if you want to do an inspection - the distance between the bottom of the spherical bore and the end of the piston (clutch side) should be similar.... sounds like your plates are glazed or fried... a) go to Al's ( American Sport Bike) and buy the Barnett kit - use the stock (Buell) springs - the Barnett's (springs) are very stiff b) in the old (and lean day$) - we used to soak our plates in acetone and then lightly sand them (measure them first and compare to "OEM" dim. (tape a piece of 300-400 grit to a flat surface and lightly sand the plates in a figure 8 motion - both fibre and metal) check thickness to book dim...too thin? you're in need of new plates c) another "at the track" and I'm in the last chance qualifier with a slipping clutch trick....take out the springs (one at a time) and add a washer or two to "add" preload to the springs...it worked for me back in the day...hope this helps | ||
| Tq_freak |
Yea I am super worried the clutch is smoked but the weird thing is that there was absolutely No slip before this. Not sure how much abuse it can take and still be ok. we will see I guess, dont want to drop 200 bucks on a clutch right now. I have 20-30 miles on it when it was only slipping when full throttle (spherical nut was "loose") and I dont even leave my driveway when I was trying iterations last night. You could tell right away. I guess If I take the slave out and it measures the same as the stocker then the clutch is done. | ||
| Kevmean |
You are not the first person to have problems after installing the ebr slave cylinder,but i've never heard of this problem with the oberon slave or the original slave ...... if you havn't allowed the centre screw to turn while you undid the spherical nut or replaced it to me it sounds like there is an anomoly with the size of some of the ebr slaves.the spherical nut is normally done up not left backed off so something must be a different size to what was taken out. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Does anyone have there Contact Info easily accessible? I googled Badweb and cant find it. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Never mind, Found one | ||
| Kenm123t |
I ll bet the slave isn't in properly they are a little tough to seat depending on the cover | ||
| Tq_freak |
Well I think I got it, its a weird one Took it all apart and found a differance. In the old slave when the center is fully depressed into the bore, with or with out the slave spring in place, it sticks out .062 out of the back on the bore. The New EBR one with the Spring in place sits dead flush and with the spring removed sticks out .062 it looks like the spring pocket wasn't cut deep enough on the slave and the spring becomes bound before it can fully depress all the way in. freakn weird Think a read on here a few days/weeks back some of you guys were running with out the spring in there and it worked fine. I think I am going to button it up with out the spring and give it a shot to confirm it and go from there. Would really like to have the correct slave and run the spring if I can. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Call the Elves at EBR and explain your issue this time of year it may better to email. They will get back to you | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Battyone, "Your new cylinder is a slightly different size to the original...or installed incorrectly! " I hear a lot of people talk about how easy it is to install the clutch cylinder incorrectly. What are the tips to install it correctly? Anyone have a link to a good thread with pics of a correct install? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Tq_Frk...if you visualize a the cross section of the piston - the spring relief comes close to the "Gland" (the groove cut in the piston for the dual Orings)..if they make the relief deeper the gland may be compromised....the strength of the piston is tied to that small cross section. IMO the .062 difference for the spring "pre-loaded" isn't gonna make a difference in the slipping plates - you need new plates...or stronger clutch springs. DkTech - a small bench arbor press would be ideal for inserting the new cylinder - but most don't have one...lube the small orings with a silicone based grease ( like the grease for brakes in the small packets at the auto parts store). There is a "key" that must be aligned in order for the "ports" to line up - you may want to try inserting it without the orings to practice that "alignment"...a piece of oak or plastic could be used as a "pusher" if you need to use a hammer to finally install and seat the cylinder with the orings - hope this helps | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
sorry double post (Message edited by dktechguy112 on March 29, 2013) | ||
| Pmjolly |
I just finished installing the EBR slave cylinder on mine. It went together easily, and bled quickly. I'll test it out tomorrow. I compared the EBR parts to the 2nd generation factory parts and saw no difference in depth of the cylinder or thickness of the piston. The spring had the same depth cut into the cylinder, also. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
I had the same issue when I installed the EBR cylinder. After install I took the bike to work in the morn. After work I rode it home in the heat and 3/4 of the way home it started to slip. After hours of taking it off and putting it back on and testing I finally got some advise that worked. After tightening the spherical nut I loosened it 3/4 turn and all was in order. I haven't had an issue since and that was 7 months ago. Give it a try, it couldn't hurt. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Works like a champ. No slipping. If it begins to slip, I'll back off the spherical nut 3/4 turn. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Well I got a chance to run it and no slip at all. pulled hard the whole way through powerband and never even thought about slipping. With the spring out there is actually a little free play in the slave and you can tell with it all tight that the clutch in fulling released. With the spring in you never get that feeling and its under load all the time. Nuts, I know what your saying about the cross section, I noticed that when I looked at the slave before I put it in. I find it hard to believe my clutch is done. if it is im going to be pissed. I have 13k miles on the bike and Im not a "slipper" with clutch engagement, its in out out. Horrible comparison but my XB has 30k miles on it and the clutch has never given me any issues. | ||
| Tomseliga |
i am having the same slipping problem after i installed the ebr actuator so if i take the spring out it will fix the problem? | ||
| Tomseliga |
ok i took the spring out i did notice when i bleed the clutch the piston in the actuator does not go back all the way i can push it in a little further with my thumb if i push real hard is that normal or what would b causing that also the sleeve may not b pushed in the cylinder all the way? the c clip fits fine but on the out side there is a gap like another c clip could fit in is that normal? gunna go test drive it |
