| Author |
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Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 01:12 pm: | 
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quote: If Buell made a motorcycle with "paddle shift", would any of yall buy it?
In a heartbeat. The clutch is the single most aggravating feature of any vehicle I've ever driven. |
Lazerface
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 03:09 pm: |
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I think a lot of these people that are so adamant about needing a clutch, havent driven a new performance car with an automatic.
I used to be the same way.
Like Snacks said...They do everything you want them to, and they do it better than you can. |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 03:36 pm: |
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> If Buell made a motorcycle with "paddle
> shift", would any of yall buy it?
I'm with Frogs on this -- the transmissions we have today on motorcycles are merely the best possible set of compromises invented to date, not necessarily the best possible solution imaginable.
A considerable portion of the skill of riding a motorcycle fast is managing issues related to matching motor, transmission and road speeds. Imagine if the need to worry about all of that suddenly disappeared?
There's a reason laptimes fall for expert riders with gadgets like slipper clutches and the like. WSBK and Moto-GP bikes do things like auto-blip to give the rider an edge not having to worry about such things.
A silky-smooth paddle shifter on a bike with some kind of dual-clutch set up would be a huge advantage if it could be delivered in the same physical package (weight/geometry) traditional motorcycle transmissions are delivered in today. |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 03:53 pm: |
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I can envision a gyro controlled auto, along with many other parameters, but it's not that hard to think about how to get a bike to pick the correct gear for the situation......now putting that into reality, that's a different story.
And it would be much easier to implement in a race scenario. |
Rob04xb12
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 04:36 pm: |
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All of that computer driven stuff is nice and all, but at what point do you remove the "driver skill" and simply make it who can build the best computer?
This is the road that I feel racing is heading, and it just doesnt seem that fun. I liked it better when it was just man and machine, with man doing the thinking. The man that performs the best, won. With all of this automatic stuff, why do we even have a driver? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 04:43 pm: |
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I wouldn't mind a self driving bike or car either. It would be faster and safer and more efficient than anyone of us could ever be. |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 05:02 pm: |
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> With all of this automatic stuff, why do we even have a driver?
I'm not sure if I agree, especially since you are simply trading one skill -- managing a transmission, for example -- and trading it for another, such as managing to the feel of traction under higher speeds now available since the transmission issues are reduced.
Do you race? |
Rob04xb12
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 08:47 pm: |
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No I dont race. I should start! All I need is a fancy computer with wheels!
Save the manual! |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 09:31 pm: |
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> I should start!
Yes you should! It's addictive.
... and after a couple of hi-sides, you might think differently about that computer  |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 10:20 pm: |
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hey danny thanks thats awesome!!!!!! |
Northernthunder
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 10:31 pm: |
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The Honda VFR 1200 has an automatic Dual clutch system available.
My first instinct is that it's an abomination, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't curious to try it. |
Rogue_biker
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 11:55 pm: |
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If you haven't tried it don't knock it. Those quick shifting 6-speed+ autoboxes are awesome ESPECIALLY if you want full manual control. A skilled driver can concentrate more on watching the road and using the best line through the corners. Having no clutch also limit abuse.
There was a time when vehicles had manual chokes, manual ignition advance, or required double clutching to shift, etc. There was also a time in WW2 when pilots needed to adjust fuel flow on their 1,000 hp aircooled engines to match density altitude, performance/best efficiency, steer their fighters to aim their guns, and crawl off their cockpits to exit a burning airplane! Haha! No longer! Now we have computers to do all that for us, like Full Authority Digital Engine Control on jet engines, plus helmet cueing system for fighter jets to track & shoot down enemies, GPS and Bluetooth wireless communications to guide us, and yes, clutchless multi-speed transmission with 6-speeds or more.
Remember carburators on bikes? Remember having to re-jet carbs? Rebuilding them? Screw that! Bring on throttle by wire, cockpit adjustable/active suspensions, fuel/ignition mapping on the fly, ABS, traction control, etc.! Go faster. Have more fun. Think less while doing it!
Our world is much more demanding than it used to be and there are more people out there riding/driving. Our attention is already overloaded. Let technology do most of the mundane work for you. The clutch is overrated! LOL! |
Cherry_bomb
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 06:14 am: |
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mmhhh, i like to shift and change gears, that's motorcycle-riding...otherwise you can play motorcycle-games on your xbox, it's better, you don't need get off the couch... |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 08:13 am: |
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That fine, Cherry, just don't get angry when a rider on a more modern machine blows by you going into a turn and you never see him again until the race is over.
Personally, I like stuff like slipper clutches, Bazaaz, and so on. It's made racing safer, approachable for hacks like me, and a lot more fun. |
Cherry_bomb
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 09:22 am: |
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i referred to this: “Now we have computers to do all that for us, like Full Authority Digital Engine Control on jet engines, plus helmet cueing system for fighter jets to track & shoot down enemies, GPS and Bluetooth wireless communications to guide us, and yes, clutchless multi-speed transmission with 6-speeds or more.
Remember carburators on bikes? Remember having to re-jet carbs? Rebuilding them? Screw that! Bring on throttle by wire, cockpit adjustable/active suspensions, fuel/ignition mapping on the fly, ABS, traction control, etc.! Go faster. Have more fun. Think less while doing it! "
on the track i like things like slipper clutches (call the suter my own) and speedshifters and stuff....
but on the road, i wanna be in the middle of it, doing it myself...
on the track, the others are faster, but that has to do with more horsepower or the riders... |
Clk92vette
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 12:26 pm: |
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I also prefer to shift myself. I enjoy perfectly rev matched downshifts as much as power upshifting. The dual clutch automatics and air shifters change gears faster and if you are drag racing or competing professionally than you can't really ignore that advantage. But I ride/drive for joy, not for a living. |
Motorhead102482
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 02:12 pm: |
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I test rode a Honda NC700X with the Dual Clutch Transmission. I honestly was not really that impressed. It's neat, but I like to have more control over shift points other than the throttle and brake. Plus I didn't like how abrupt the downshifts were. I think they can and will get better, but as they stand right now, I'm not really impressed. |
Northernthunder
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 02:36 pm: |
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"I ride/drive for joy, not for a living."
Great statement Clk92vette
reminds me of working on farms when I was younger, you can definitely get a lot done with a turbo diesel AWD hydrostatic drive GPS linked Machine while you listen to the stereo and sit in an air conditioned cab
but, my favorite days were without a doubt running a late 1950's era propane powered John Deere 630 with a hand clutch. |
Thefleshrocket
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 05:05 pm: |
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>A considerable portion of the skill of riding a motorcycle fast is managing issues related to matching motor, transmission and road speeds.
>Imagine if the need to worry about all of that suddenly disappeared?
That would take away much of the joy of riding a motorcycle. I ride for many reasons, not the least of which is that riding a motorcycle is a challenging, engaging experience. The less involvement that is required, the less enjoyable the experience becomes.
The same applies to cars, albeit to a slightly lesser degree.
Sure, an high-performance automatic might be slightly quicker down the dragstrip or on a roadcourse, and if I was a pro where every tenth of a second counted, I'd pick the faster alternative. But I drag race or do track days for fun and prefer the pleasure of rowing the shifter and operating the clutch myself.
I honestly can't believe so many of you are pro-automatic transmissions for anything other than pro racing. |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 08:51 pm: |
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Not exactly the same thing, but I love the twist n go ease of running errands on my scooter. I can get across town on it much faster than on my Buell, or in my truck. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 12:28 pm: |
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I STILL miss the manual timing I had on the left grip of my '48 Chief.
I don't miss the foot clutch/tank shift...
Z |
Father_of_an_era
| | Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 10:49 pm: |
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Snack, maybe you can color match the new Car with the R. That would be sweet! Forget the negativity, the new car is a beautiful machine. |
Snackbar64
| | Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 11:54 pm: |
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Thanks Father! That is definitely an option. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:12 am: |
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Froggy we have transportation methods where you just sit there subway, trains, air, planes and buses.
Some things are supposed to visceral and move the soul Motorcycles being one of them.
leave the silicon filters behind and live a richer fuller life.
Froggy read the Foxfire books and you will leave the chip sets behind. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 01:50 am: |
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quote:Froggy we have transportation methods where you just sit there subway, trains, air, planes and buses.
Yep they are great. $2.50 (actually it just went up) to go wherever you want in NYC on the Subway, and I can sit and relax, read, game, and not have to deal with traffic. The best part is I am at a significantly less of risk of getting injured as I don't have to worry about some douche losing a folding ladder out of the back of his truck or some grandmother who confuses the gas and brake pedals.
The only problem is the lack of transportation options in the suburbs, which is where a self driving automobile/motorcycle would be fantastic. I can relax, do other things, and given that it can out drive me any day, it would react faster and safer to avoid an accident.
quote:Some things are supposed to visceral and move the soul Motorcycles being one of them.
If motorcycles were the only thing that moves your soul, you would have a pretty boring life. While I do on occasion enjoy motorcycle riding, it is far from the highlight of my day. I've ridden so many miles these past few years that it has become mundane, I have other hobbies to get me going, while motorcycling will just get me to work.
quote:leave the silicon filters behind and live a richer fuller life.
Nah, the silicon filters lead to a richer and fuller life. Embrace it or fall behind.
quote: Froggy read the Foxfire books and you will leave the chip sets behind.
I'll check that out for next time I'm on a train, I'm always looking for a good read.
quote:I honestly can't believe so many of you are pro-automatic transmissions for anything other than pro racing.
Because despite what you currently think, an automatic is simply more enjoyable overall. |
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