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Aaron75
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

hello all,
just curious if any of you that have had a bad oil gear noticed a ticking noise in that area before you replaced it?

my 2000 m2 has 16K on it with the original gear in there. Has a ticking from cam chest. So i replaced the lifters and pushrods. also checked the cams while i was in there and looked in working order.

unfortunately when i was in there i didnt rotate the oil gear to look on all sides. from what i saw it looked ok but, i really just looked at it quick not knowing of the issue.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When it's a problem, the oil pump gear teeth will wear sharp and thin on one side of the gear, not all around. They will eventually wear paper-thin, and break off. Then the oil pump stops turning, you lose all oil pressure (which can wreck your engine), and the broken gear teeth can foul up your cam gears.

If you're not fairly confident it didn't look like that, you can check it by dropping the oil pump from the bottom of the cam chest. Take a digital camera or your cell phone, and take a photo looking up into the hole. Rotate the engine a few degrees (put the transmission in 5th gear and turn the rear wheel by hand), and take another picture. Repeat until you've turned the engine over at least a full revolution. Then download the pictures to your computer where you can blow them up and study them in detail.

If in doubt. tear it back open and replace the gear with the updated bronze piece.
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Aaron75
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks for the info. Thats what I ended up doing today. Doesnt look bad. no real funny wear. A little thinner than the replacement gear but not a huge difference. I did buy the updated bronze gear today though at the HD dealer. I think it will definitely be a winter project.
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Midknyte
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is the replacement gear for these an improved piece, or do we need to periodically keep an eye on this for the life of our bikes?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The bronze replacement gear is an improved piece, stock on 2006-up Buells. Older gears were steel and more prone to wear. It's probably something you should check every 20,000 miles or so with the steel gear and every 50,000 miles or so with the bronze gear.
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Aaron75
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

some pictures of my oil gear from yesterday. 16k on it. i think i can wait till winter to change to the bronze one i bought.



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Hughlysses
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Your gear looks fine. I found this image comparing a worn steel gear and a new bronze one:

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Natexlh1000
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Changing that gear isn't mandatory.
It was a tolerance stacking issue.
Some didn't have the issue at all.
Most manifest themselves in 20,000 miles or less. I only found out about it after my X1 was too far along to matter.
I've never had my oil pump out even for a little peek.
It's up to mid-90,000 miles now.


I'm not trying to make you negligent with this. I just want you to understand that not all of these engines are afflicted by this issue.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Considering these engines are dry sump and they lean to the left on the sidestand, is the oil pump something you're able to pull with only a little residual oil dripping out, or do you need to do this when you have the tank drained? Not even sure how much slack there is in the oil lines, I assume it's possible the hoses have to be unhooked from the pump to even get it out.

I have the service manual but I know it's just gonna have the full removal instructions, and not actually tell me the quickest way to take a peak up into that hole.
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a quick guide I can email you that jolly put together of you PM me your email. It's not GRD to do, just time consuming and fingers crossed bolts don't strip/studs don't break. I did my s3 and will put one in my s1 and s2 for cheap insurance. I drained the oil in the s3 but I'm not sure it's necessary. Have a set of exhaust gaskets handy in addition to a cam cover gasket and maybe an oil pump gasket if you feel so inclined.

William
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm not sure if you have to drain the oil just to check the gear, but just wait and do the check during your next oil change to be sure.

The only part you need for the check is a new oil pump gasket. If you have to replace the gear, you need the stuff William mentioned above. It's supposed to be possible to orient the cams such that you can pull the cam cover without disturbing them. I thought I had it right, but two of my cams came out when I pulled the cam cover so I wound up having to pull the rocker boxes to relieve the pressure on the lifters which necessitated replacing the rocker box gaskets too.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 08:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"It's supposed to be possible to orient the cams such that you can pull the cam cover without disturbing them."

I had heard that getting the cover off isn't a problem with the rocker boxes on, it's getting them back on where it's difficult.

William, I'll send you a PM for the info. I plan to replace mine eventually regardless, but I just changed my oil about 2 weeks ago, so I'll have to wait till fall to take a better look. I've only got about 12k miles so I should be fine for the summer.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 08:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

William, I sent you a PM, thanks!

(Message edited by upthemaiden on June 20, 2017)
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Responded. Glad to help.

William
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