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Buell Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through October 16, 2013 » Update on my non-running X1.... « Previous Next »

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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Some may recall my issue...new to me, first ride, and it dies, I am pretty sure I was either low, or out of, fuel.

Wouldn't fire up after adding fuel, so here's where I'm at now..

New plugs, checked all the wiring/fuses, new gas, and still nothing.

Spray some starter fluid into the intake while cranking, and it fires, so I've basically narrowed it down to a fuel supply issue. It cranks with the starter fluid, but won't run for any extended period..

I DO hear the "hum" of the pump when first turning on the bike, so that's an encouraging sign..

I think next is fuel filter. Need to figure out how to clean injectors, and the rest of the fuel system, so in the evenings this week, I'm just going to start taking stuff apart and cleaning thoroughly.

If none of that works, I'm probably going to be pissed, but will probably get on the computer to see if there is anything ECMSPY can help with. Never had an FI bike before, so this is all new to me...I'm kind of wishing I had a carb right now, but I know once I get it running, I'll love it!
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Steveford
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pull out the injectors and see if they're spraying fuel.
I believe the shop manual calls for filter replacement every 15,000 miles but that seems like overkill considering the size of that filter.
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nail on the head.

Pics:
Front injector: http://imgur.com/KDjaXLX
Rear injector: http://imgur.com/NjMKf2Z

Was planning on waiting to tear everything apart, but the wife is out of town this weekend, so I put the kid to bed and started taking everything apart.

Started at the gas tank, and unplugged the hose there: had fuel. Followed that hose to injectors, unplugged, turned on bike so pump could run: fuel!

Took out the injectors, did the same (turn on, wait for pump) nothing...not sure it's supposed to spit fuel at that point or not. Cranked it, and there is one injector (front cyl, I think) spraying just a bit of fuel, other one is nothing.

So that's my issue!

Now, another question...I've seen folks say cleaning them will work...others just say to replace them...I'm leaning towards just replacing them, but a)have no idea how to disconnect them from the rail, and b)how much are they going to cost/where to buy them?

YEAH! Making progress, and learning!

(Message edited by pyrplhaze on October 05, 2013)
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Kilroy
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 10:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I believe you can use some Ford injectors, which opens up your field of sourcing considerably. Do a search of the Old School Buell section for Bosch or Ford Injectors and you should get some part numbers
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Kilroy
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh yeah, and get a service manual
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

got the service manual...reading it now, guess I should have done that before I even got into tearing this apart..

Will do some searching on what I can get.

Appreciate it!!
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Mcelhaney14
Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 04:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ultra sonic cleaning. Its like $20 per injector and they will flow check them for you.
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Mr_grumpy
Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 04:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Free download for X1 service manual here.

http://www.carlsalter.com/download.asp?p=405

(Don't click the big green buttons they're ad links)
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Fahren
Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

okinjectors.com

for full cleaning/service. No personal affiliation. I came across them from a couple of car forums.
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for link, Fahren. I've got the injectors soaking in injector cleaner now, and plan on letting them sit for another evening before I pull 'em and re-install. I think it may be working, as the color of the fluid has darkened a fair bit since they've started soaking. Going to change it out with fresh fluid tonight and install tomorrow evening. If they don't work, I'll ship off to one of those places that cleans/services them!
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Kalali
Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There are some Youtube videos showing homemade methods using a syringe and 12 volt battery to clean injectors. Some of them are quite ingenuous.
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Those youtube vids are insanely creative. I am in the process of rigging up something kind of similar.

I'm slowly beginning to think it's not my injectors, rather my fuel pump. I hear the "whirr" when I turn it on, but upon my massive amount of reading recently, I think it should be delivering more pressure than it currently is.

Going to check further, and I can't afford a fuel pressure gauge, but I'm thinking that if I disconnect the line from the fuel rail, cover the hose with my thumb like spraying a water hose, that when I turn the bike on, I should get a solid spray from the fuel line. I do get SOMETHING coming out, but it's more of a dribble.

I can hear the clicking of the injectors upon applying power, but have yet to test them with the "syringe" method to check if they are clear/clean (they've spent a week soaking in injector cleaner, so they probably are)

Can't afford shit at the moment, so I'm kind of at a standstill, but I'm going to buy some carb cleaner on payday to "syringe" check the injectors. If those work, I'm going to start figuring out the fuel pump.
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Mcelhaney14
Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Where are you pulling the hose off of? Before or after the fuel filter? I know you mentioned the filter before but I didn't see if you had changed it anywhere.
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's what I did..not sure if this is the correct way to diagnose, but I'm still learning how everything on this bike works..

Initially, I just tested for plain flow. In other words, I didn't turn the bike on, just disconnected the hoses at all points to ensure that gas was flowing through the hoses with just gravity pulling it through-

-disconnected hose from tank, gas flows
-Disconnected from fuel filter inlet, gas flows
-disconnected from fuel filter outlet, gas flows
-disconnected from fuel rail, gas flows

**All of this was done strictly using gravity. In other words, I didn't turn the key to activate the pump.

-At this point, I decided that since it seemed to be flowing, and I heard the "hummm" of the pump when I turn the bike on, that I'd hook everything back up, pull the injectors out, and see what happened if I pushed the start button. Ideally, fuel should spray out of the injectors. That didn't happen. Fuel dribbled out of one of them, and nothing came out the other.


Initially, I was planning on changing the filter, but presumed that since gas was flowing through without the pump, that doing so wouldn't be necessary.

After some more reading around on here, I've come to think it could be a few things- bad fuel pump, clogged filter on the fuel pump, or clogged fuel filter. I think the last one is the least likely, though, since it's flowing with no pressure.

I'm not quite sure where to go from here. I have soaked the injectors for a week in injector cleaner, and scrubbed the ends with a [clean] soft bristle toothbrush, and when I hit them with power I can hear them clicking, so I know they are functional, but don't know if they are functionING. Will be doing the syringe test on them as time/money permits (soon!). If they prove to be operational, I'll begin looking at the pump.

I get the feeling that I need to bite the bullet and get the ECMSpy cable, and download the program to see if it's throwing any codes. Am I correct in thinking that if the fuel pump is having issues, that I'd be able to diagnose that via ECMSpy?

Sorry for the long post...sometimes I've just gotta talk things out. Hope this isn't poorly received.....
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Kevmean
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the fuel system is de pressurised as in it has been stood without the pump running for long enough you should be able to disconnect the fuel pipe from the tank outlet without losing any fuel at all, if you are getting fuel running out of the tank without the ignition turned on then that is NOT normal.
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ok. Then I definitely have a problem.

The tank is currently off the bike, with some fuel in it. Sitting upside down in my garage because if I put it rightside up, then gas pours out.

Guess it's my fuel pump : (

Well, now I know!
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Davefl
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If fuel is running out then it could be a fuel line inside the tank that has broken.. I would pull the pump and have a look. Might be a two dollar fix.
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Lynrd
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a fuel pump off of a 2000 S3 if needed
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Alfau
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You will need that cable, or a friend with one to keep the bike in tune.
Important not to let Fi bikes run out of fuel because it stuffs up the AFV as motor starts to starve for fuel.
If, after adding fuel, the bike is running like shit, you'll need to reset the AFV to 100%.
Also,upend the contents of the tank into a bucket to check for water while you have it off.

Ethanol fuel will cause this type of problem, The presence of Ethanol can cause deterioration of several fuel system components including hoses, plastic fuel tanks, fuel pump and head gaskets.

http://www.goldeagle.com/UserFiles/file/Ethanol%20411/Ethanol%20--%20The%20Good,%20The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly.pdf



(Message edited by alfau on October 14, 2013)
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the suggestion Davefl. Once I make sure my injectors are working good, I'm going to put all that back together and get to work on the pump. Hopefully it's a cheap fix!

Lynrd- I'll definitely keep you in mind. Will shoot you a PM if it looks like I'm going to be needing that fuel pump. THANKS!!

Alfau- you're definitely right. The cable will be purchased soon. And upon thinking harder about this, I'm not so sure the bike ran out of gas. It was definitely low, but the low fuel indicator didn't pop on (didn't even realize there was one until the other day) so I'm thinking that there is a pump issue. I'm going to be dumping the tank to pull the pump, and will check for water while I'm at it!

Thanks for all the help folks. Will try to not bug everyone too much with my [non]updates! Mainly just trying to document my trials in order to hopefully help someone who may go through this same thing...
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Alfau
Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 06:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.goldeagle.com/UserFiles/file/Ethanol%20 411/Ethanol%20--%20The%20Good,%20The%20Bad,%20and% 20the%20Ugly.pdf
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Pyrplhaze
Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

now that's just grand. Man, I sure do miss the "pure gas" that I was able to get when I lived in OK. Mileage was better, and everything just seemed to run a tad bit better...
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