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X1bueller
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 05:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have not ridden much in the last couple of years due to a new baby, but I want to get he back on the road.

The biggest problem I have at the moment is the clutch. I cannot adjust it. I have resorted to rebuilding the clutch and omitting the grenade plate. I am looking at the kevlar kit from Barnett, but the stock items are not that much cheaper either.

One question I have.... I have always had a leak under the bike while sitting in the garage. Now that I have everything apart, it looks like it is coming off the seam at is at the bottom/forward area of the bike. Is that the crank case? Others have told me its the primary... I guess it could be leaking and seeping down there... Ideas?
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Loki
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bill

Sounds like the case seam
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Loki
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I came to the conclusion when I did my clutch. The Barnett was worth the extra. Especially since the local indie had it on the shelf. Was also cheaper than all the individual parts from the dealer. Who, btw did not have them in stock
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Steveford
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I went with a Screamin' Chicken item on the S3 motor in the Purple Nurple; they said reduced lever pressure but you can't prove it by me.
Yes, that sounds like the case seam is leaking which is a project.
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S1owner
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I used a barnett also works great
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ten years or so ago I went through several kevlar plates when I was using the Buell hard on the street and amateur drag racing at weekends. Ok I tried fully synthetic primary oils, which I believe contributed to the many failings, but I remain unconvinced kevlar in a Buell is worth a carrot.

For me, as I told in a similar thread just recently, the stock plates from HD with an extra one fitted in place of the cush plate and a 20% heavier Barnett spring plate have proved ultra reliable for the last decade or so. Ok I don't ride it quite as hard and nowhere near for as long as I use to if I do give it stick nowadays. Nor do I do as many miles. And it's been a lot of years since I lined up at a Christmas tree! Even if I did beat it tom death like I use to back then, I still wouldn't give kevlar plats house space unless they've been developed dramatically better since. I just got tired of no clutch and fishing small green squares out of my primary!


Rocket in England
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Sportyeric
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nice to see you back, Rocket.
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X1bueller
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for all the feedback. I stopped by my local stealer on the way home from work and picked up a bottle of trans lube. I asked about the parts and the individual plates go for about $22 each. So thats $185. But if the kevlar is crap; its crap.

I've been reading quite a few sites. People are either loving the kevlar or hating them. However, people with stock plates and the Barnett HD spring are all in agreement. I guess I will have to wait to disassemble the clutch basket to see if anything is reusable. I found this kit on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Clutch-Harley-Davidson-37910 -90-37911-90-37913-90/dp/B007KPUFDU Im not sure if it they are genuine parts or some knock off.

Case seem..... Yuk. That sounds like a project. I guess I will just button it back up and see what happens, but I am pretty sure I am looking at motor oil on the floor. Maybe once I get everything cleaned up I can really see where the oil is coming from. If it is a case seam, then I may as well look at other projects to do while I have it all torn apart.

The bike does need some head work. I get a puff of blue smoke when I let off the throttle. I was thinking of sending it in to get a stage 1 or 2 done. Nalin and Zippers was doing a lot of that work back in the day.....
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X1bueller
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK... I got the clutch apart last night and I took out all of the disks...

The good news - Everything looks great! the fiber and metal plates look very good, no scratches etc. Even the grenade plate looks like new.

The bad news - Everything looks great! the fiber and metal plates look very good, no scratches etc. Even the grenade plate looks like new.

So why in hell is my clutch stuck?

I admit... I overfilled the primary (it was sitting on a center stand when I filled it). Also, I can't quite remember, but I think I may have used a heavier weight gear oil. I use 85w-140 for the diffs in my truck... I could have grabbed that bottle by mistake.

Also, when I took the disks out, they were pretty darn sticky.

Could this possibly be my only problem? I just have to clean everything up?
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes that could well be your problem if you've confirmed all the mechanics are working as they should and your initial adjustments were good too.

Any overly thick oil, and one that you have found is sticky enough to lock your plates together, will not allow the plates to separate of their own free will when the mechanism releases them. You're only talking a few thousands of an inch gapping between each plate when the clutch is expanded open. If the oil is thick it will cause the plates to hydraulically lock together thus you will not get an adjustment once this happens.

As you make no comment other than you can't get an adjustment, and you've found the sticking plates, this does seem to confirm it is an oil problem if adjustment is all you're chasing before attempting to ride.

Thoroughly clean all the components and the primary. Put it back together with the correct grade primary oil. Adjust and try. You might not have to spend any money other than on oil!




Rocket in England
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

eric, thanks : )


Rocket in England
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X1bueller
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for confirming!!!

I think I would like to delete the grenade plate while I am in there... full Kevlar Barnett kit runs $125 +shipping... But I can get the extra plates I need from the deal for $40. I think I will go the $40 route and a jug of fresh (and correct) oil.
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Jim2
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 06:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The manufacturer of at least one Kevlar clutch cautions not to use Synthetic oil with the Kevlar clutch plates.

I'm using an Energy One Kevlar clutch along with Shell Rotella-T 15W40 for the lube. It's been good so far, about 15K miles or so but my engine is not worked and I don't drag race.
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Alfau
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just so you know.
If you ditch the grenade plate and replace it with 1 fibre and 2 metal plates you will discover a new noise entering into the equation. A scary screeching sound as you engage the clutch. You'll get used to it.

These motors have a dry sump which is unlikely to be the sauce of your oil leak.
Primary case gasket or the oil line to the oil pump are more likely culprit.
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I concur from much experience. You cannot use synthetic oil with kevlar plates.

From personal experience the clutch in my Buell is silent and always has been for 14 years, though I do have a distant memory I have heard the odd screech when drag starting but it's so many years ago I don't recall what type of plates or plate configuration I was running back then. My Buell is running an extra fibre plate and two steels in place of the cush plate and has been probably for a decade or more, and doesn't screech ever. Know also I have at least 100 rwhp and a fair bit of torque. Hope this helps.

Rocket in England
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X1bueller
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just dropped by the store to order new parts and brought in my clutch plate. On of the service guys said that if I used the wrong oil, the fiber plates are ruined. Not sure of that was a sales tactic...

Any credence to that thought?

I think I am just going to order the extra fiber plate and 2 steel plates, clean up my existing plates with a little simple green and call it a day.
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Lynrd
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No. He is right. You should never use olive oil or baby oil...
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Jim2
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Certain gear oils have been known to eat the coating on the stator wires. When that happens you end up with a messy sludge that will probably ruin the fiber clutch plates. Perhaps that is what he means???
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As I said a few days ago, been through lots of combinations of plate materials, plate set-ups, different oils.

100 rwhp no clutch issues.

Stock HD fibre plates one extra and two steel Barnett 20% stronger spring plate with Harley primary oil.



Rocket in England
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Ratbuell
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You have contaminated the fibers. Kinda like oil or brake fluid on brake pads.

You can put it back together with what you've got, and see what happens...but I bet you get to take it apart again pretty soon because it still doesn't work right.

You have it apart.

You've been thinking about upgrading to a Barnett kit (I, too, would avoid kevlar)...or you can just get a full pack of OEM discs.

Use new discs.

Use the right oil.

Don't reinvent the wheel for no reason. Ride and enjoy.
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 05:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Laying the bike on its side it doesn't take much time or effort to take the clutch plates out if they do need replacing though. And clutch plates are already 'contaminated' from what would have been in there before the wrong grade / type of fluid was put in there, and they're not quite the same as a clutch or brake lining that runs dry. There's a good chance they'll work fine if they've cleaned up and look good still. If you want to try save money......

Otherwise yes. Engineering practice. Replace with new!


Rocket in England
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Reducati
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 08:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey all, i have an s2, with barnett clutch, going to change out the chain tensioner...which primary oil should i use? thanks dan
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Reducati
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

after a search it looks like formula plus, from hd is the answer
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X1bueller
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am not even sure I used the wrong oil... Just a theory. I DID overfill it for sure and from what I have read all over the .net, this is enough to get the plates sticky.
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