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Archive through July 09, 2009Drhacknstine30 07-09-09  10:03 pm
         

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Mmmi_grad
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

How about the mount fails.... bolts are tight and bolts bust your out of your head so you need to send to superior cycle in Mil. Wisconsin to get repaired right and spend alot of money. Or how about you try to extract the bolt and screw it up and need another head or try to repair and bust the head later???

After that then what? Do it again later?
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Dpg
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, went that route too. Picked up a set of heads and installed the front one. Later on I found an race car fabrication shop nearby that does all the local Yamaha dealers shop work. He was able to welt to the second bolt and remove it for $40. I got the first one out at home, but busted off the extractor. Key is to us a Grabbit extractor which has two parts that screw into the bolt. Shop guy said he could probably remove the broken bolt out with the motor intact and in the frame to save from all the disassembly. With luck and the NRHS mount I'm good for awhile.

Safe ride,

Gary, DPG
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Sportyeric
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Now I'm confused. I went to the dealer for a 79D to replace my new vibratey DS one. Told that its $100Cdn, I ask how much the Buell one is. We look it up in the Buell parts book and it also lists the 79D. Are parts books different in Canada? How can they list a 79D if it has to be drilled out? Does the S2 use a 79D but later tubers use one with a bigger hole?

The bolt in mine takes a 3/4' wrench. That makes it a 1/2 bolt, I'm pretty sure.

I shall have to look at my receipt for the one I bought last month from Seattle HD and see what part number that one was. And how much they charged.
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Drhacknstine
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We'll Have to ask one of the muck-a-ty mucks around here. But, as I understand it Harley has control of the supply chains and superseeds part numbers at their leisure. ( read this as it fits their HOGS and they don't much care if it fits a out of warranty buell!)
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Sportyeric
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The thing is: the recommendation here is to use the 79D and modify it to fit rather than use the Buell isolator but my dealers part book shows the 79D to be the correct part and doesn't have another listing for a different, possibly inadequate, Buell part.
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Dpg
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I say buy/order it as the Buell part number and when that 1/2" bolt doesn't fit take it back and ask them to find out why HD/Buell has the wrong part number spec'd for our bikes. Maybe they upgraded the 79D again with a larger diameter sleeve size without changing the number to say 79E? All I know is that the isolator I received from American Sport Bike is much softer than the original part. I may in fact be sending it back for a refund as it was $40 and I don't intend to use if given the short lifespan quoted by others on this board.

Safe ride,

Gary in Oaktown
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Sloppy
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here's the scoop:
Buell and HD used to use the exact same engine isolator. But now HD has updated its isolator and their parts system will automatically "upgrade" any previous part number to the latest one. This way a customer may ask for an old part number but the dealer will only stock and sell you the improved model. A wise business policy.

But here's the catch with the Buell PN - the HD improved part DOES NOT work with Buells, BUT they share the same original part number. So the HD dealer will "think" that they need to sell you the "improved" isolator. My dealer did the exact same thing to me as what you describe. The challenge to the dealer is that all the Buell parts books were printed BEFORE Buell put its own part number on the old HD isolator. Therefore, the dealers go by the old part number which is then "updated" in their parts software and mistakenly give you the -79D isolator.

If you want the old isolator you will need to go to a Buell shop (or one of the fine supporters on this website), and NOT an HD only shop. You CAN NOT purchase Buell part numbers from an HD only dealer. Sad, I agree, but true.

If you want the Buell isolator then go through a dealer on this site or American Sport Bike.

(Message edited by sloppy on July 10, 2009)
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Drhacknstine
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 02:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yep, Same story here in Kansas 79D is shown for Buell and Harley. And when I sat my old motor mount up to the counter and tried to stuff the 1/2 in ch bolt in the 79D mount, the clerk just looked at it and said that is what the computer shows for your bike! I have determined since Harley has the majority stake in Buell, it will operate like Harley. Harley wants to sell NEW bikes not fix old ones. The solution for this is not to support, or at best poorly support the older bikes except for Glamour, Heritage purposes (sales pitch). Ask most any pan head or older Harley owner. They don't get good support from Harley they go Aftermarket. And I feel sure once warranty is up on a specific buell series, Well you are on your own. Pray for an aftermarket solution. I own one of the last two stroke Harleys imported into the US in the late 70's. Harley has NO parts for it and never will. But many Big Harley stealerships with a museum / show room around here have one on display (it won motocross champion ships in 19Bla Bla and bla bla). If your expecting Better Support from Buell/Harley, I fear you have a bleak future around the corner. My apoligies for fouling up this thread with a rant. I have found little good Buell support in Kansas this week. I went to three stealerships to get a replacement isolator, Upgraded primary tenisoner and a GOOD steel core gasket. Thank you Central H D, and the best part is, they are not a Buell dealer. But they do have a clue! Or will email someone who does.
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Jramsey
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 09:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dr, I've had good luck also with Central H-D in Lenexa, I always ask for Hollywood Stallingsworth (yea that's his real name)in the parts dept.

Where in Ks. are you?
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Drhacknstine:

To complement you post:

Buy a FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL and PARTS BOOK for your YEAR and MODEL BUELL !!!

Rely on after market supplies(AMERICAN SPORT BIKE) !!!

There is a lot of parts that RETRO-FIT from the SPORTSTER/BIG TWIN PLATFORMS, "BUT" the HRLEY-DAVIDSON PARTS PERSONS will say they will not fit because the do not have a "CLUE" !!!

"HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALERS, MAKING MECHANICS OUT OF BUELL RIDERS SINCE 1986 !!!"

MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!!

(Message edited by buellistic on July 10, 2009)
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Sloppy
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Let's put a little business reality here:

Can you go to an MV Augusta shop and purchase HD parts? No.
Can you go to an HD shop and purchase MV parts? No.

Same thing with Buell and HD. While HD does OWN Buell, they are two distinct subsidiaries. And the further investment there is in Buell, the further away from HD parts they will be - and isn't that a "good" thing? Rather than "forced" to reuse HD parts, Buell now has the capital to design their own! Thank goodness for Capitalism! Imagine if we had a Socialist Motor Company and we'd have such great bikes as the Ural! And now think about what your medical system will look like IF it goes Socialist...

Likewise, you can't purchase certain Honda MC parts from their auto dealer even though they are ONE AND THE SAME company - not even a case of a subsidiary!

Yet do we complain about these? We don't; so why should we complain that we have to get Buell parts from a Buell dealer...

Heck - it'd be nice if we could get the parts from anywhere. And of course there's nothing stopping YOU from developing your own dealer network so YOU can offer that to the public. Anyone up for the challenge or is complaining about it easier... ; )

Let's remember that the dealers have very few Buell customers compared to HD customers (IF they have both dealerships) so let's be patient and educate the dealers as well.
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Fast1075
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I would like to thank Buellistic for supplying me with the 79D part number
when I bought the newest iso for my
bike....because when I went to get it
the HD parts guy said it wouldn't work.

I had him get out the 79D and the Buell
iso to compare them...he was astonished
that they would interchange. (I ride a Blast, so the iso didn't need to be drilled out).
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Ebutch
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When my S2T broke off front head support bolts I used left handed drill bit for pilot hole for easy-out.Did not need to came out easy ,But if needed could use CRC Freeze-Off or simler or easy out as last chance.I have used Drage iso.and did not like ride vibes so use Buell iso. and yet to try all iso. replacement but will.
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Ebutch
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

+ am going to install S2 front head support brackit and new bolts and cone washers and some how support S3 mail-box.
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sloppy:

Your buying BUELL parts from a HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALER with a BUELL SIGN on the building !!!

The standard HARLEY-DAVIDSON PARTS PERSONS
answer to BUELL QUESTIONS is "I" DON'T KNOW and IT WILL NOT FIT !!!

When BMC used the HARLEY-DAVIDSON PARTS NUMBERING SYSTEM it was easy to tell what RETRO-FITED, "BUT" now the BMC has seen fit to go to what "i" call the "BUELLschitte" part numbering system
it is hard for the unknowing BUELL rider to deal with HARLEY-DAVIDSON PARTS PERSON going BRAIN DEAD when you say BUELL} ...

There are parts off metric bikes that are the same thing as used on BUELLs as they are using the same suppliers as BMC ...

A friend of mine went into the area HARLEY-DAVIDSON CLOTHS EMPORIUM to buy a BUELL any no body would talk to him ...

He even went back a second time and got the same treatment, "SO" he bought a metric ...

This could go on and on !!!

MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!!

"HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALERS, MAKING MECHANICS OUT OF BUELL RIDERS SINCE 1986 !!!"

(Message edited by buellistic on July 10, 2009)
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Ebutch
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 04:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When in 1999 I had front trans pulley strip out at 22,000 miles and was repaired under warranty then went in 3000 miles again.head mec.told me they did not torque on new pulley to spec and would not rpair.shop foreman 2d new one said to me Buells where junk with Harley starter engines .I put new pulley on to spec 100,500 miles later still on and very satisfied owner.But I see things have improved a lot though the years and satisfied but still room for improvement me and them.And thankful Gary the owner still sells Buell,can not see him getting Rich off them too!+ rely on them for things I can,t do.
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Drhacknstine
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 05:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As I said very sorry for mucking up the post. I do own a 1999 Service manual for the S3T. YES, I do use the HD non BUELL dealer. THEY made calls, and emails, to get what i asked for no hastle,no dumb looks. And called me a day later, and provided at NO CHARGE, a NOS BUELL mount that wasn't in their inventory. Oh, and I do use a friends 99 parts manual, but he's on the Dragon's Tail this week.

On the Post at hand, the 79D mount has less vibes than my original, and one tank of gas and a good abusing later, still in in tact. Thanks for the info. I think it's gonna be a very good substitution. Jramsey, south of Lawrence.

I will not rant, throw all tantrums in garage. I will not rant....

(Message edited by Drhacknstine on July 10, 2009)

(Message edited by Drhacknstine on July 10, 2009)
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Al_lighton
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I've communicated with Buell on this issue, and there IS active work going on to come to a solution that fixes the problem at hand without causing a different failure mode. This isn't just a mount, it is a tuned mount. That is, the durometer is specified such that dynamic isolation occurs in the right RPMs. Done wrong, it could create bigger problems than it solves. I can't provide any timetable, and wish I could provide a part that would work better in the meantime. For now, we must wait for them to come up the solution.

Al
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Mmmi_grad
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Al for letting us know what you know but I think we all deserve something from the factory. these bikes are ageing and the failures are everywhere more and more. We need something NOW, not later.

(Message edited by mmmi_grad on July 10, 2009)
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Kalali
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

OK. I am going to listen to Sloppy (I always do) and go ahead and replace my "separated" front ISO.
Even though I have been following this topic very closely, please assume I am three year old and just tell me what to get (part number, if possible) and where to get it from. FWIW, I have an '00 X1.
Thanks a million.
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Sloppy
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"deserve something from the factory?"

The only thing we deserve is what we do for ourselves. Unless you're Socialist where you deserve what everyone else does.

I guess we're cut from different stock (not saying one is better!).

I see an opportunity to find a better solution. Others see a problem that needs to be fixed by someone else.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Federal law states that auto manufacturers need only make spare parts for up to 7 years. Since MC's life cycles are much shorter, I'm not sure if this law even applies to MC's...

Capitalism still rules in the USA (for now) - if you can do a better job then you have the opportunity (and responsibility?) to do it. So do it!
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Sloppy
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Kal:
As with all topics on a forum (or the News Media!) these are opinions and final responsibility lies upon you (unless your Socialist and responsibility lies with everyone else but you ; ) )

Get the -79D part (not sure of complete part number) from your local HD shop.
IF YOU HAVE THE EQUIPMENT OR ARE WILLING TO INVEST IN THE EQUIPMENT - ream a 1/2" hole square through the existing hole of the metal sleeve of the -79D. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE EQUIPMENT HAVE YOUR LOCAL MACHINE SHOP DO IT FOR YOU. Shouldn't cost you more than $20 for them do it. Some only charge beer!
Purchase a washer to replace the D-Washer - try to match the same outer diameter as the D-Washer, but with a 1/2" bolt hole. Do NOT use the D-Washer.
Follow FSM to replace isolator (use a small jack stand, like for your car, under the front shock mount to support the weight of the engine.)
Isolator alignment : washer goes up / rubber donut is down.

A number of others have done this work before me (and credit needs to go to them for sharing the knowledge!) so please do a search and find more detailed explanations.
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

BUELLers:

Here is the HISTORY on my FRONT ISOLATOR ...

Do my on maintenance OR what ever ...

In a 107,870.9 miles as of the last ride have only replaced the FRONT ISOLATOR "ONCE"(think installation is a key issue here also) ...

The FRONT MOTOR MOUNT is another story:

Bouce'd off the side of a car in 1998 and broke the OEM one which was replaced by a HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALER(not a BUELL DEALER yet) ...

Questionable installation as it broke ...

Had a RECALL front motor mount which "i" installed myself and it lasted(maybe "i" know the secret) ...

MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!!
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Sportyeric
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I never thought to look at the 79D that was offered to me at my dealership to see what the hole size was. We were looking in the Buell book, though, and it is a full service Buell dealer.
I suspect that when I bought the one I installed last month, from a US dealership, their computer kicked out a Buell part number.
And I see that list price on internet sites is $61US with an internet purchase price of $54 so I guess I'll be cross-bordershopping again .

The PN, for those who aren't looking through the thread hard enough, is 16207-79D.

And I'll post a link to the Seattle Times if they publish an article I am writing regarding the Canadian Health care system. (Then Sloppy and I will open a discussion on the Backfire Board.)
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Ebutch
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well now I looked at spare S2 frame and lord behold was a perfect soft old Buell front iso and took off hard iso from S2t.my S2T is a joy to ride again!!!!Now S3 has had hard iso and a good ride.The S2T dosn,t have frame peace to front tie-bar.I think you can get away with hard iso on newer frame and not on S2 frame!
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Ebutch
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

S2 frame piece is a must have I think to run hard iso.
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Mmmi_grad
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Who else is sick and tired of listening to Terrence, Teddie, todd or Turd talk down to us. I sit here as a hard working american conservative that has taken more risks than your parents ever dreamed of sucker. Why dont you take your pretentious, hypocritical, commie catering down the block to someone else. You dont need to patronize me sucker.

(Message edited by mmmi_grad on July 10, 2009)
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Drhacknstine
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 12:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Umm, can we get back to Front mounts, What broke, how many miles, which type or brand, where is the Tear and what brand was it. Does it have a "CURE" number, and what was it. I have seen three and four number CURE codes. I'd love to know Buellistic's 100,000 + mount has for a batch/cure code. it must be the right durometer to last a long time. We all could use a mount with that formula of rubber.
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Sloppy
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 02:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Put the Merlot down Mmi ; )

Hmmm, one side of my parents escaped holocaust Germany (my grandfather died in a concentration camp) and the other side of my family escaped the Soviet invasion. Half of my father's teeth are gone thanks to the Soviet army. Neither side of my family had any more than a suitcase and didn't speak English. My uncle almost died since they couldn't get penicillin at the time - but my grandparents were able to find some in another town and convince (bribe) a Doctor to give away some of his stash. I was raised in the States with English as a second language - and I was raised and experienced the values of self sufficiency and a healthy fear of what governments will do under "good intentions". Been back to Europe a few times to see the old country and hear the stories of what is left of my family - both before and after the Iron Curtain and I quickly realized how lucky I was to live in a Country of choice and opportunity. Us patronize? No, we consider ourselves very fortunate to be able to make things happen on our own in the States. Many immigrants have horrific tales of how they entered this country and worked hard to learn the language and become tax contributing citizens.

But Dr's right! Let's get back to the topic at hand, shall we? I don't know if the cure date or durometer has anything to do with the failure. In my case the failure was due to the sleeve / rubber bond interface. The sleeve was not properly adhered to the rubber (it looks like they use a glue) and basically the sleeve ripped out of the isolator. That isolator lasted about 500 miles. My original factory isolator lasted 25,000 miles.
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5liter
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I still can't read my "cure" code, but I have a yellow dot on the side of the top portion. This is the replacement iso from Al at American Sport Bike.
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5liter
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 08:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here's a pic of the dot.


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Kalali
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 09:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sloppy, thanks. Needless to say, we only exchange opinions and more importantly personal experience on the site. The difference is some folks have a hell of a lot more experience than others. As for me, I have never turned down s good suggestion and my pride has never got in my way making myself a better person. May be some day I can pass on what I have learned here to the new folks.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

MMI,

Threatening PM's. Really?


One week in the cooler it is.
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Fast1075
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 03:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I am sorry...I lack the engineering language to express properly the reason the stock iso fails and the 79D does not..but eyeballs on both at the same time explains it all...
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