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Archive through June 15, 2007Jackbequick30 06-15-07  01:00 pm
         

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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Jack good info. I never tried tapping a hole I drilled in a weld, that would no doubt have been my next surprise.

This application was a threaded hole in the drum webbing that you put a bolt into to "break" the drum off the hub. The rust and road goo welds it on, and there is nothing to pry against to get it off.

One did fine, the other stripped the threads (which were about 1/8 as deep as they really need to be for this application) instead of popping the drum free. So brazing would not have been any help.

I was gas welding, not stick welding, so I could have done a better job heating the whole thing up... but as you say, I would then have to drill and tap the thing.

Though now that i think about it, I did exactly this fixing a gunsite adjuster (like a chain press) for a friend. It was for an AR, and the hole was not big enough for the particular site he had. I filled in the existing hole, built it up about 1/4" of steel in all directions, and ground everything flat again. He used a center punch and put a brand new bigger hole the right size in the new bigger base... he did not mention if he had any problems, and I saw the finished part and it looked great.

I'm gas welding with mild steel rods (no flux)... maybe that makes "rework" easier.

(BTW and offtopic... I bought one of those Tiawan $15 garmin MCX antennaes off of eBay, and the thing rocks... If i get a link outside, I can bring it inside the bottom floor of a two story house and keep a 3d lock...)
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Jackbequick
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gas welding will make the weld less likely to be to hard to work. It heats a much larger area and can even server to anneal the HAZ and the area around it which is a good thing.

It is an especially bad thing to cool a weld too fast. I used to have a metal can full of clean (sifted through a screen) ash from a hardwood fire. The ash was very light and powdery. If you dropped a hot part into it, it would bury itself and it would take an hour or two to cool to the touch. That really minimized the hardening.

Another of the mysteries of life that I mastered to some extent was hardening and annealing of metals. If a welded part is too hard you can anneal the entire part (weld and all) by heating it to a specific temp (austentitic temp?) and cooling it slowly. But you have to have something that won't be damaged by the process of course.

To harden an annealed part, you heat it back to the specific temp again and cool it quickly in a quenching solution (salt brine or oil for example). That leaves it hard but too brittle to be very useful so you heat it again to a very specific lower temp for a longer period of time and that tempers it to the working hardness.

Heat treating metals is a lovely process that has been going on since the dawn of metal making. It is very predictable and attention to detail rewards you with better parts. A lot of the stuff I damaged trying to work on it in the early years could have been saved if I had learned everything in the right sequence. The village blacksmith may not have understood the science of it all but he know how to do the work.

Yeah, those GPS antennas are great, they have like 30 to 60 dB or so gain and that really kicks the signal bars up. They are usually 3.3-5V devices and the input voltage and signal amplification are linear. You should have 5V on the Quest so you're getting the max out of it.

What you're seeing there with that antenna is almost as good as the receiver in my GPSMAP 76Cx without an external antenna. The SiRF III chip set is really amazingly better than the earlier chip sets.

Jack
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 01:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow! Jack couldn't contain his big hairy knowledge! : D Thanks Jack! : )
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Reepicheep
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 09:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Jack! Good tips.
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Buellfart
Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I`ve been trying to figure around buying an expensive tig welder in order to make a one-off,chromoly frame for a Buell.I have a mig-which produces turkey-poop welds,virtuallyuseless,and a lincoln stick welder,which blugeons and burns through any steel like a lightening bolt but is virually useless,unless your trying to repair a tractor,or similarly configured,assault vehical."Tinman",has a "mini-torch",oxy/acet. with numerous videos,over-priced peraphernalia,etc.,that claims to bring aircraft quality,chromoly welding to the weld-crazed masses with little or no technical welding experience necessary.Is this thing for real,does it work-since flying is akin to motorcycle frame building on a Danger Scale,as far as I`m concerned,assuming the initial design is "correct",would the welds succeed in any stress event as well as tig welded joints?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

While I am as far from an expert as you can get, I would say their claim is both true and false.

On the true side, I can weld just about any material with the Oxy Act. I have welded sheet metal, and welded a pipe to a sledge hammer head. Thickness is almost academic, just pick the right tip, and you can even weld really thin stuff to really thick stuff.

Also on the true side, I have no doubt that a gas welded joint could be as strong (or stronger) then any other welded joint. In general, I bet gas welded joints are stronger. I'll occasionally weld up some piece of scrap I have laying around, let it cool, then slap it in a vice and go after it hammer and tongs... it will generally fail some other place then where the weld was.

On the "not so true side", the whole "little or no technical experience" part ain't true. It's very learnable, and a LOT of fun, but you will need to do some reading and burn up a lot of gas and melt a lot of metal before things start falling into place. You can make strong welds on the first day, you can make pretty welds after a half dozen or so sessions, but I was on my second (big) tank of actelyne before I could make pretty *and* strong welds. And these were the big 4 foot tall tanks. (That being said, ugly welds can be made real pretty with a little angle grinder time).

A small tank of gas can go pretty quick... not a big deal if you can easily get a refil, but a major issue if you are going to be constantly waiting a day or two for minor projects because you are always out of gas.

The big downside of gas welding is (IMHO) speed. A MIG weld can be slapped down really quickly, and you will have an adequately strong adequately pretty joint in maybe 1/5 the time to lay a stronger prettier gas welded joint.
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Ironken
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fart, is your stick machine AC/DC or DC? If it is DC, there is the option of a TIG torch with a gas valve. Pretty inexpensive way to run TIG. It is AKA "scratch start TIG," or a, "clip on torch." It is, of course not as controllable as, nor does the arc get established as well as having a TIG powersource (no hi freq start to establish the arc). But it will work and has been used for a very long time in portable applications before small inverter powersources came along. If your machine is DC (and of course CC or constant current as all stick machines that I know of are). You should be able to TIG along with some skill. To do this you will need:
Your DC powersource
-a TIG torch set-up with gas valve
-1/16" tungsten (2% thoriated or Lanthanated or Ceriated), collets, collet body (or 3/32", however 3/32 might be a little large)
-ar/ar blend flowmeter
-bottle of ar
-1/2" gas cup
-ER80S-D2 filler rod (for joining 4130)

the arc must be established by striking it (like stick) carefully as not to contaminate the weldment with tungsten (too much, there will always be some with scratch start). You will have to adjust your amperage carefully as you have no variable amperage control on the fly. Use DC straight polarity or DC electrode negative.
I've seen gas valve torches as cheap as $80.00

I do disagree with Reep that a gas weld is stronger than a propper MIG weld. Gas welding does create a larger heat affected zone, but it also puts alot of heat into the part which can anneal the part and create distortion. Today MIG welding is so advanced it is crazy. Spray transfer, STT (surface tension transfer), Pulsed (with about 9 controllable parameters for just one arc cycle). For Pulsed and STT, waveforms can be designed on your laptop and downloaded to the machine.....how cool is that?





(Message edited by ironken on December 12, 2007)
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds like Ironken knows more about it then me : )
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Ironken
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry Reep. I didn't mean it like that.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 06:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No apology necessary, and no offense taken... I was simply stating the truth!

I knew the larger heat affected zone ended up making stronger welds, but your explanation about weakening the material made perfect sense. It's not so much that the weld is weaker, it's that the material looses some properties that originally made it stronger.

I should have been clearer that I wasn't offended... I love the stuff I learn here!
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a special welding rig ( O/A ) that is advertised to weld castings well. It uses the acetylene as a shielding gas. Even lets you do Aluminum & Stainless. I forget the brand name, and have not tried it.

Mig's are great for production, and Tig's for general repair work, but only gas let's you heat stuff without melting it. Try annealing a forging with an arc welder. It's like shaving with a light sabre. Maybe Obi-wan can, but not me.

My background is in Chemical plant equipment, where alloys MUST match, and bicycle making, where strong & pretty are the mark of a craftsman. I'm not. The buddy of mine who IS, retired, as it was hard to keep a Custom shop & production thing going.

That said, If you see a "Stowe" or "Phase 3 Cycles" bike for sale, & it fits you & your desire, it's about as good as it gets. Period. Fat City fans & other custom makers are not wrong in singing the praises of their fav's. I'm still keeping my Stowe. I know that tradition calls Italy & England the home of great bikes, and that's true, but the U.S. is where the finest work is done in small shops by dedicated nuts. The fillet welds on my Stowe are sculpture.
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Ironken
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 07:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm curious about this O/A rig. It seems to me that using acetylene as the shielding gas (wow) if possible would add unwanted carbon to the molten metal.

I've never tried annealing or forging with an arc welder...have no idea how to.

Dammit, now I have to throw my TIG machine in the trash being that it is only good for general repair work and not for production. Since MIGs are not good for general repair work and are for production, I guess that I'll have to shitcan them too.
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Buellfart
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just looked,its` a Lincoln 225 amp,AC arc welder-great for thick,angle iron welding,building a motorcycle trailer.I bought it from a transmission shop friend 25 years ago.Chromoly is expensive and really thin-ever cut a Buell frame up?My mig welder is a miller 100,something (burried in the garage,probably under a pile of wheels and tires,tanks and Penthouse magazines)no gas bottle-only used flux-core wire-great for turkey-pooping together really thin metal and the grinding it the S---t out of it until it resembles something like what I was after.Its` actually more like "metal sculpting".I do,however,have an excellent O/A rig that I bought from an Uncle,who really is a metal sculptor-an award winner at that,his stuff is in Museums,and before imposing office buildings,though I don`t understand it beyond the fact that it looks kind of neat and if I had a 60 story building I`d probably park one of those mothers in front of it just to let everybody know that I meant business.It stands at least four feet tall and comes with a nifty cart so that you can tote it around if you`ve a mind to;there are enough torches and fittings to confound any but the most experienced of gas welders,or at least it would seem so to me.The question remains: can a tiny,oxy. acet. torch successfully weld thin-walled,chromoly tubing and safely construct a motorcycle frame not unlike a factory welded Buell frame,all esoterica aside?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have gas welded the steel that is on a typical PC computer case into a cube... and I am not that experience a welder.

I think cutting the tubing to get it close enough to run a clean weld will be the greater challenge.
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Ironken
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bfart, I can't say that the O/A rig wouldn't weld the 4130 safely. I have never done it and can't speak on O/A and 4130. If you do take a notion to trying it, I would stay with the ER80S-D2 filler rod (although ER70 can be used with the weldment having lesser strength than the parent metal). Bro, I don't know what esoterica means, but, I'm gonna look it up. I was thinking if you had a D.C. machine, you could run a clip-on torch set-up relatively inexpensive. I do believe that your little millermatic will run the ER80 wire, but, I need to research that and what shielding gas to use. I will get back to you on the torch thing, It will heat the tubing alot more than TIG, but, metalurgically speaking, I don't know what that will do to the integrity of the tube. The torch makes heat, shields the molten metal from the atmosphere with flame...The TIG arc makes heat and shields the molten metal with gas.....hmmmm I can't say. Sorry I'm of no help....Kenny
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 06:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ironken, don't toss your gear!

My offhand & over casual remark, is just the way I'm used to things. At Lightnin Mixers, most welding on small stuff ( stuff you don't climb into ) was done mig with care taken to the alloys involved no matter what system. 316 rod/wire with 316 stuff, 304 w/304, Ti with Ti etc. The tig kit was used more for BIG stuff, and touch up on stuff that machining showed small voids or bubbles in.

Ti was always interesting to work with, as almost the only thing you can light it with is an arc. Once you get a good sized piece going, the fire dept. just try's to save the bulk of the building, not supposed to even spray near our area.

I believe you can use O/A on 4130, but an expert would know better. Check with the homebuilt airplane guys. It's how most fabric covered planes are made. The right way to notch the tubing is with a jig, & they can be sometimes be rented from your local EAA chapter.
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Ironken
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aesquire, I've burned Mg before and it is impressive. The kicker with joining metal is that you don't always use the same filler as the parent metal. For example 316 SS use 316 SS filler, but 304 SS use 308 SS to join them.

Bfart; I did a little research in some lit that I have and it seems that your 4130 can be mig welded with Lincoln Superarc LA90 low alloy wire with 75%-90% Ar and the balance CO2, or 95%Ar and the balance O2. The wire is available in .035" 33# spools....maybe a little large for your app on the lightwall tubing. Verify this if you decide to try it.

If you do the O/A thing pm me and let me know how it turns out, I'm curious.

For tubing notchers check out Low Buck notchers. Inexpensive and pretty sharp looking.

(Message edited by ironken on December 13, 2007)
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Buellfart
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks,Ironken and the rest.I just love that word,'esoterica' but haven`t looked it up in a dog`s age.Sometimes I get a little word-happy. Basically I`m looking for a some simple yet fairly specific advice.I have learned that one should experiment,not just with words but with deeds,its` time I got down and dirty and actually try O/A welding with chromoly scraps,have a few,bend them to the breaking point,find out what works for me and keep doing it till its`-Ready-to-go time.My Uncle warned me,"now Tom,I don`t want you to blow yourself up."I`ve O/A welded before,years ago in school without mishap but somehow,when you get these warnings from family members,after all only they know how goofy I can really be,it is a bit unsetteling.Have written down all the numbers of stuff and will pursue in due course,thanks,but don`t stop,keep posting suggestions,Ok?
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/info_faqs.htm

This is the one I've read about with the "shielding gas" business.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just sat down with a few good books, and some great tips and literature sent to me by people on this site. The gas welding was a lot easier to pick up then I expected.
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Buell_bert
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not that I'm an expert but I've done TIG /MIG /Oxy-acetelene brazing/welding and the trick is patience and a whole lot of practice. If you do not do it much just have a friend do it for you it saves a lot of time and alot of grinding down the bad stuff. Just been there.
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Buellfart
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 12:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow,just went to the henrob site,I got so involved I burned up a bunch hamburger buns in the oven.Does anyone have any experience with this unit?
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