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Archive through June 06, 2006M1combat30 06-06-06  07:14 pm
         

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Barker
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Chadhargis is right Its is very possible.

If Erik can shoehorn a harley lump into that tiny XB, I confident he can just do anything as far as powerplants are concerned.

Erik has produced a radical leap forward in frame design, I would not put it past him to make a huge leap in powerplant tech.

Good to hear from you chadhargis, If you don't remember I was that guy on the red XB9R @ the gixxer give-a-way.
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Az_m2
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Buell wants a liquid cooled engine. Anonymous claims the VROD motor started out being planned for Buell. It's coming, we just don't know when.
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Mb182
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Wouldn't it be nice to see them buddy up with KTM"

Since KTM and Polaris (Victory) are in a merger deal, I wouldn't expect to see one in a Buell.

MB
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Indy_bueller
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Erik has produced a radical leap forward in frame design, I would not put it past him to make a huge leap in powerplant tech.

Can I get an AMEN Brother! It's only a matter of time I think. Just how much time......
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Curtyd
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Two-stroke, two-stroke, TWO-STROKE, you don't need more than 500CC to 750CC, they're lightweight and I read years ago that HD bought a license for a clean two-stroke technology, RING A DING..DING....

P.S. We can just nickname it "Revenge of the RW750", probably won't pass Marketing OK, as the V-Twin folks just hate the chainsaw motors. I KNOW, I used to always add a little extra oil to the gas tank and ride my RD400 in the Harley parade to the track at Daytona on Sunday AM.

(Message edited by CURTYD on June 07, 2006)
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Brucelee
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have to admit I like the two stroke idea. Huge power, light weight, air cooled. Small footprint too!

However, I just can't see it passing emissions here in CA.

Hope I am wrong. I know Honda has new technology that it runs in 250 CC class I believe. Supposed to be very clean.

Interesting.
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Spike
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

While we're making predictions . . .

I think this year is too early to see anything major. The RR wasn't even announced until January of this year (on my birthday) and the pictures released then showed the bike still in the development stages. I think we'll see big things from the RR, but at this point it's not even ready as a reliable race bike. It would be a huge shock to see an RR-derived street bike ready for public consumption in the next ~3 months. A completely new liquid-cooled streetbike would be an even bigger shock, especially considering it would likely render the RR useless. I definitely think we'll see some variation of an RR based streetbike in the future, but the '07 model year is too soon.
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Bake
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You can hardly buy a new 2 stroke dirt bike, I doubt we will ever see one as a street bike again! I am NOT against 2 strokes.

If they go liquid cooled I hope you still get a choice of air/liquid cooled.
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Slaughter
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A liquid-cooled Twin and an air-cooled Twin would not race the same classes.

The liquid-cooled would run in AMA's new Moto-ST Sport Twins endurance racing class while the RR is suited to FX. At the Club level, they'd largely be more appropriately raced in different classes.

On the street - it's a whole different matter.

I'm betting the race bikes are out a few years before you see them on the street. Still not betting on a liquid cooled bike but I can sure HOPE!
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Sarodude
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Direct Injection 2 strokes are not the traditional, dirty, mondo smokers we think of. Only unburned air makes it into the exhaust during the massive port overlap. Fuel doesn't get injected into the combustion chamber till after the ports are closed.

There are many configurations of 2 stroke.

-Saro
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Olinxb12r
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Two strokes are fun, and they have many advantages and disadvantages when compared to 4 stroke engines. The problem is that they have fallen in to the "bad" category in most peoples minds. 2 strokes are now not even made as dirt bikes, and I don't think you'll see another 2 stroke streetbike in the US.

As for the other rumors. They are always thick at this time of the year, but we really don't have any idea until the official statements are made. That being said if you look at the last couple years of new releases from Buell they are all based on the current XB, or small upgrades to the platform. It seems as though they have came to a crossroad with the XB platform at this point. The XB will be redesigned some time in the future, but I don't think it will be this year. We may see some upgrades to the Firebolt, but I think the only bike that is in dire need of updating is the Blast. I think we will see a radically redesigned Blast this year and maybe some freshening of some other models.

I would love to see Buell bring out a liquid cooled twin, but it just doesn't seem to be the direction the company has been going in. I hope that it will happen at some point, but again I think that is to much of a 180 for them to do it right now. If that was the direction they were planning to go it seems to be a bit of a waste to dump so much time and money in to the RR project.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

bah. air cooled is the only way.
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Spike
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

2 strokes are now not even made as dirt bikes, and I don't think you'll see another 2 stroke streetbike in the US.




Apologies for picking nits, but wanted to correct this statement. Many manufacturers are still producing two-stroke dirt bikes including Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and KTM.
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12r
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

After a very dodgy start, it's still possible to get the rather lovely Bimota Vdue here in the UK. It has a 500cc DI 2-stroke V-twin developing an alleged 110 bhp @ 9000 rpm.

Vdue


I owned an 1986 NS400R for many years and although it was no Firebolt it only needed a few rpm to get it off the line cleanly. The fun started at 6500 rpm when the ATAC valves closed and the bhp doubled in < 2000 rpm. Far from being an animal, it was as civilised as cucumber sandwiches but unleashed an unrivalled performance when called upon.

A 2-stoke Firebolt ? Now you're talking
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Olinxb12r
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Spike, I was told that the manufacturers are not going to be selling two strokes in the US after the 07 model year. I know that they are switching motocross over to the 250 and 450 classes now, and two strokes are being phased out. Was I given bad info, or did I just word my statement wrong by not saying that the manufacturers will no longer be selling 2 strokes in the US?
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Barker
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The more I think about it. The blast needs the update (or replacement, sorry blasters) more than the other bikes.

Maybe 2 new liquid cooled single bikes?

What I would like to see:
XB6X Motard Blast


mo


or even a XB6RR Super light bolt/blast hybrid

Just wishing.

I have to remember that the article in question calls for a twin, not a thumper.
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Buellin_ri
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I also didn't think that 2-stroke bikes are DOT legal in the US. Dirt bikes are not DOT legal so they don't have to conform to the rule. However I believe they are also being phased out.
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Barker
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"2-stroke bikes are DOT legal in the US." ~Buellin_ri


My KTM dealer said that his 2 stroke KTM's can be titled for the road. I would need to add some things lights, new coil, etc to complete the street legal package.

He said it was something about the way KTM does vins or something like that. I was looking into the buying a 2 stroke motard to blast around town in. RING-A-DING-DING!
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Slaughter
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We built the Ultralite up at Rutan's shop for GM. It was designed to meet anticipated emissions requirements, get 100 MPG and carry 4 folks at 100 MPH AND with Air Conditioning.

It was a 3-cylinder 2-stroke with direct port injection - pretty sophisticated for 1990 with closed-loop engine control with a bunch of sensors feeding back to the computer if I remember correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Ultralite


Ultralite


(Message edited by slaughter on June 07, 2006)
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Spatten1
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"My KTM dealer said that his 2 stroke KTM's can be titled for the road"

The above statement is true in certain states. However, it could not be imported into the US as a street legal vehicle if it is a two stroke over a certain size.
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Chadhargis
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Barker,

I remember you...the dude with the helmet mohawk. : )

When ya coming riding with us. I need another Bueller to take some of the ribbing off of me for being a "Harley" rider. LOL!
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Spike
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Olin-

I can't say for certain what will happen to two-strokes in the next few years. There are rumors of an EPA-related crack down on two-strokes in the next few years, but I don't think any of it is known at this point. What I do know is that you can walk into many different dealers across the US today and buy a new two-stroke. There are rumors of fuel injection and possibly direct injection for future two-strokes, but I don't know what will come of them. The changes in MX racing have rendered the two-stroke MXer nearly obsolete, much like MotoGP racing. Without MX bikes at the front of development the rest of the two-strokes are likely to fade away.
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Jscott
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here's who is going to be using the "Highland" V-Twin motor.

http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/default.php

Claiming 150hp, also curiously they say that the motor is made in the USA.

Looks like they should of hired a stylist. Not holding my breath, but more power to them.
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