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Jscott
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 02:49 pm: | 
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Wow, this battle is waging on many fronts.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/126792.html?1121270878
kind of a downer. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 02:59 pm: |
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I'm really NOT going to take sides on this one, but who WAS he referring to Dave? What was the reference (the hand ported heads?)? It's been a day or two and quite frankly I don't remember every word in the post but I really don't remember any attacks.
If someone hand ported some XB9 heads and didn't get much out of them then only the truth was stated (if it's the truth). If it's not the truth, then sure, there was an attack. So... Who was he referring to?
Really just curious... Not taking sides or anything  .
It "seems" to me that it was just a business owner defending themselves against a statement that was made out of context and with only half of the facts. Sure, it's a black mark when someone pays their hard earned money to get a certain level of product and doesn't get it, but it seems to me that it was made right in the end.
The proof would be in the pudding of what "S" feels about his experience I suppose, and the fact that IF true, then the person who hand ported those heads and didn't get much out of them doesn't work there any more. Maybe that person was just having a bad head porting day... Who knows.
Anyway, It looked more like defense than attack to me.
Just calling it like I see it  . |
Davefl
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 03:24 pm: |
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I did not say it was an attack, I said it could have been seen as an attack. Show the same thing to 5 different people and they will likely see 5 different things. Blake just said that he had not seen any dynos on any increased bore XB9 engines that made more than 100 SAE rwhp. Sound more like a challenge than an attack to me. The post from nrhs made me think of one person, I do not know if I thought of the right person or not.
Now where are those dynos, I want to see some HP |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 04:31 pm: |
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Good point. I suppose I'm in the non-attack pile then .
"XB9R- 88" K&N FILTER,BORED VELOCITY STACK,BORED THROTTLE BODY, NRHS 3 13/16 HURRICANE PISTONS, AXTELL CYLINDERS, GAPLESS RINGS, TOOL STEEL WRISTPINS, XB12 FLYWHEEL ASSEMBLY, NRHS STAGE 3 HEADS (1.9" ex 1.615" in, hurricane springs, stainless steel valves, bronze manganese valve guides) CRANE ROLLER ROCKERS, HYDRO-SOLID LIFTERS, ADJUSTABLE PUSHRODS, REDSHIFT .585 CAMS, XB12 PRIMARY SPROCKETS AND CHAIN, BOSCH INJECTORS, POWER COMMANDER III, FORCE EXHAUST, HEATED O2 SENSOR FREESPIRITS HIGH-SPEED FINAL DRIVE PULLEYS......117RWHP/109TQ...MORE TO COME"
That was taken from a profile close to here...
117RWHP from 88"? That "looks" to be the whole NRHS works... I suppose I WOULD expect more from 88" myself. I suppose I assumed that he was using the XB9 crank. Teach ME to assume . I would have expected more like 125-130 from 88". Maybe it makes 112 by 1500RPM and then stays flat? That would be one heck of a bike...
Lets see the curve . |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 04:32 pm: |
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Oh and... We're "probably" thinking of the same person. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:45 am: |
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Aaron,
I see it otherwise. You didn't build that engine, Brian Nallin did, so if I am dissing anyone, it would be him. Brian now runs the show at Revolution Performance, a sponsor of BadWeB. Good news though, apparently the folks at Vallejo HD/Buell built an 1170cc Revolution Performance big bore XB9 for one of their customers; it pulled 109 RWHP on Vallejo's dyno. I call it like I see it. Guess where they got the performance engine parts for their race winning XB? Yep, Revolution Performance. I know Brian has the integrity and character to endure such off the cuff commentary. Yes, maybe it was poorly worded. I can see how you might mistake it for a negative comment wrt NRHS. It was not intended as such. I wish you would simply accept that explanation and let it go.
Thanks to Dave for his thoughtful take on the issue.
Aaron,
What really bothers me is that you chose to twist a positive discussion about the merits of the big bore 1170cc configuration over a stock displacement 1203cc engine into your own personal campaign of derision against a former NRHS employee. Sure would have been nice if you had simply enjoined the technical discussion on the merits of the 1170cc big bore XB9 versus and XB12 engine. Why didn't you do that? Apparently you troll this site only looking for an opportunity to subject us all to your bitter personal vendetta. I'm sick of it. I don't care if it is "factual" or not. It just has no place here in a discussion about the merits of a big bore XB9 over an XB12.
The 100 RWHP achieved by NRHS is nothing to sneeze at, just not the 110 RWHP that I and others were hoping to see. Thus the "depressing" comment. As I recall the big bore XB9 that NRHS built for High Country HD/Buell achieved about the same result. Hey, that is still a big increase over the stock ~75 RWHP, a 33% increase, just not as much as I and others had hoped to see based upon the results that NRHS had achieved previosly for stock displacement 1203cc configurations. I've spoken to people who have ridden that High Country HD/Buell/Buell big bore XB9 bike that you did and they were very impressed. Shazam was certainly thrilled with his. That should be the one and only benchmark of success in your business.
You see my post as an attack and apparently don't believe me when I say that showing NRHS in a bad light was not intended. There was no "pot shot." You disagree. Unfortunately for you, I hold the keys to this site and so my will inevitably wins out over yours in such matters and I deemed your post wholly inappropriate and so removed it.
And now once again you see fit to publicly question my integrity. Probably better for you to simply honor my request. If you have a better XB9 1170cc big bore result, then you are free to post it. If not, and you have nothing positive to add, then please refrain from posting.
I really just want us to leave each other the hell alone and to quit attacking each other.
So please let's each focus on things more positive, me on uplifting the tenor of BadWeB and adding value to it, and you on building solid reliable high performance street bike engines for your customers. I have no doubt your customers will continue to be pleased and well served.
Justin,
Not sure if John Force puts dyno charts on his site either. LOL. Who built the 88" streetbike engine for Frank Ammerman that made over 130 RWHP? I believe that was Brian Nallin and he did it back in 2002 while still in Shreveport, LA. Is that good enough for you? Who won two consecutive ADBA drag racing championships? Who built Scott Scherb's AMA dirt tracker championship bike? Who built many of the engines who's dyno charts you display on your site?
I'm disinclined to "appreciate" those who act out vindictively against me or BadWeB without even showing the courtesy of picking up the telephone to try to work things out. Withdrawal of sponsorship of BadWeB is a total non-issue. It is the personal attacks and hateful email and posts like yours that leave a negative view of NRHS for me. Let's be honest here. An NRHS customer was the recipient of some criticism by me for some inflammatory statements. Because of that criticism, NRHS vindictively withdrew sponsorship then proceeded to call me a liar and publicly impugn my character. I made overture after overture towards reconciliation. All were rebuffed. I made telephone calls. None were returned. Thanks a lot for your support.
Really, waging this negative agenda on BadWeB can only be a loser for NRHS. Let it end here and now. Please.
Update 07/14/05: Aaron just called and we had a good amicable conversation. We have agreed to cease non-positive commentary and look to the light so to speak. He's a busy man and so am I. I thank everyone here for following suit and looking to the positive.
Back to the topic of discussion... no dyno yet of any big bore 1169cc XB, from anyone/anywhere that has made more than 100 SAE RWHP.
More later.
PS: Thanks Aaron for the call. I'm sorry for causing you grief. Best wishes and good luck to all at NRHS.
(Message edited by blake on July 14, 2005) |
Nrhs
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:50 am: |
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The deleted NRHS post was 100% factual and contained no fabricated data. It was completely limited to the circumstances surrounding that result, and attacked nobody.
It mentioned that the person responsible for the result is no longer with NRHS because it's material to the discussion; it speaks directly to the unlikliehood of something like this happening again at NRHS. The person's name was omitted because it's not material.
If you would like NRHS to refrain from explaining "disappointing" results, please refrain from characterizing our results as such. We accept your explanation that it was not intended as an attack. We never described it as one. Likewise our response was not an attack.
It would be wholly inappropriate for us to comment on the results from a competing shop. However, credit where credit is due: with respect to the Frank Ammerman result, that was the work of Allen Simons. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:16 pm: |
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/western movie setting...
hoooey ooey oooo.... Wah WAH wah...
Anyway...
Aaron - Has anyone ever ASKED you to build them a street engine specifically for a dyno run number? What do you typically make from an XB12 engine? I assume that by now you've done one or two at least. I also assume you've tested an engine with the complete NRHS works... What can you make?
I'm still not trying to take sides at all... It's just that I DO plan on being a CUSTOMER and to me... Thousands of dollars isn't something I can make a bad decision with. I'm sure you understand that.
It's interesting to me to see that Mr. Canfield just sent a bike to you . That says a lot...
PM me if you'd rather not "advertise" here now that you aren't a sponsor. I'll understand. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 03:46 pm: |
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Please see my edited post above. Cheers all. |
Shazam
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 10:20 am: |
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Donald,
You shouldn't hesitate for one second trusting your money or your machinery with the boys in Colorado.
Alot of things transpired within the business during the course of my project....I am a HAPPY customer. I am also one of Aaron's biggest supporter's and consider him a Friend. My only dealings with him have been professional and he leaves nothing to be desired in that regard.
As to my results and what one would expect from a motor this size..... my budget was the constraint. Throttle body sizing, fuel injection issues, and ignition are all impediments to bigger numbers on my motor, each of which can be optimized with an additional infusion of cash.
I could have opted for bigger cams as well. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 11:44 am: |
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Thanks for the reply . |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 01:34 am: |
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Attention all BadWeBrs! Please listen up!
For the record, I want to offer this sincere public apology to Aaron Wilson especially but also to everyone here for my characterizing of his post on 7/12 at 11:24 am (since removed) in this thread as "dishonest." That was inappropriate and out of line, and I am genuinely sorry for it. I am sorry for that Aaron. I was out of line.
Thanks all for tolerating/forgiving my sometimes heavy-handed emotion driven commentary.
Blake |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
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Sounds too much like a locker room conversation.. I have the biggest @#$%..
We as in the Buell riders have some top notch engine builders. And are very lucky. I just wish they could all be positive. I have my favorite engine builder that I'd send my bike to. Not becuase I think they can build a better bike. But becuase I simply like there business style and customer service.
Heck even the local chooper builder has negative comments to say about some of you'll. Thus I don't hold him or his services to the same degree. |
Roc
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 04:13 pm: |
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I don’t understand removing posts.
Where they pornographic?
Can’t adults draw their own conclusions about what people say about one another, and what they are saying about themselves in the process? |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 06:37 pm: |
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Please. No.
Roc, you have email.
The good news is that since all this discussion happened, there have been some more 9 to 12 motor transformations, one of them being Slaughter's race bike and the other being H-D/Buell of Vallejo's racing machine. The state of the art is progressing so they have been able to achieve some darn good results too. |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
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Our Race bike started life as a 9 and now meets the class limit of 1210 +1mm. ... For a street bike our square engine way is very costly. ... I am building a customer a short stroke over square engine at 1208cc and again using Revolution Performance Stg 3 Heads, Big Bore Kit and crank work. ... After I get it tuned using DL, we will look at the HP/TQ numbers to decide if we want to build our back-up engine to this configuration. ... Terry |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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I'm still not going to be racing mine myself but the bike is going to be at Willow Springs being kept up by Bartels and "guest raced" Jeff Dixon will be the primary rider. He podiumed the Bartels Sportster in Middleweight Twins last month after having been out of racing for nearly 2 years.
The bike will be raced every race weekend at Willow to get some of that Buell and Glendale HD/Buell contingency money (Glendale is the class sponsor)
Bill Bartels has agreed to keep the bike race-ready and fix all damage AND keep it tuned and ready for my return to racing when I'm outta debt.
Higbee sent a set of full bodywork so it's gonna look a bit different this month.
By the way, the engine mods (except for the full-race module) would work for a street bike on pump gas. Don't know if I'd lighten the crank on a streetbike though - it's pretty hard on the bottom end but sure does rev quicker!
Oh and the HP is 97-100 - varies day to day. We will run it again with the new fuel pump (really only will affect throttle response NOT HP. Better tuning might get a couple more HP.
(Kinda funny being a team "manager")
(Message edited by slaughter on March 05, 2006) |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 06:52 pm: |
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Sounds cool Steve, and we may get down that way with ours this year. ... Hope to see you if we do? ... Terry |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 09:00 pm: |
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Terry - I'm there every month. Gonna be a few before I'm in the saddle again. We'll put a spot up for you since we're all pitting together - Glendale, San Diego, Bartels - be kinda cool having you there.
Come on down and snag more of that Buell Factory AND Glendale contingency money!
We ALWAYS provide lunches for everybody on Sunday - usually burgers or chili. If you are going to make it - be sure and give us a heads up and we'll stake out a spot for you so we're all pitting together.
(Message edited by slaughter on March 05, 2006) |
Cochise
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 11:04 pm: |
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Blake, I commend you on your ability to admit wrong, you are truly a stand-up guy!
 |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
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Terry,
We'll be very interested to learn of your findings.
Steve,
I have trouble imagining a better race team manager than you. Go get 'em!
Joe,
Thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence. I'm sorry it took me so long. I can be a bit stubborn, or so people say. I've learned a lot about myself over the past year, some of which I didn't like, didn't like it at all. I don't think I want to be proud of being an ••••••• anymore. I'd rather be a nice guy. No more so easily dismissing my own personality flaws. |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 12:12 am: |
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How about you guys coming up here after some of Henry's AFM Open Twin Money, for now at 1210cc our bike can only run F4, so come on up and kick some Ducati *ss
On the theme of race team managers, the owner of H-D Buell of Vallejo is spinning off a new company called Vallejo Performance Services and I am its only employee. ...My new duties will be to run the race program and develop new Buell performance programs and products including the Buell Direct Link maps. … Terry
(Message edited by buelldyno_guy on March 06, 2006) |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 09:02 am: |
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Terry, that's sounding like a really cool gig - Vallejo Performance Services.
We'll have to give AFM a shot. Maybe next year for the season, I've still got some bucks tied up in WERA left from last year so will try at least one race there in the coming year... but AFM - definitely.
(Thunderhill is STILL my favorite track and you guys do make it down to Bakersfield too...) |
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