G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » XBoard » Archive through May 07, 2012 » Uell XB12SsCold blooded Buell ??? » Archive through February 16, 2012 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What sensor in the FI causes really cold blooded running in an 07 XB12Ss ? If not that then what else will cause it. The bike is nearly unrideable for short rides under 5 miles
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 07:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The engine temperature sensor. The bike runs rich when it is cold. No different than a choke on a carburetor equipped vehicle. Air cooled bikes don't like short rides, it doesn't get anything up to temperature to burn off condensation. I bet if you popped off the clutch inspection window that you will have a nice oil and water frappachino.

Watercooled bikes aren't much better in this regard, no vehicle likes short trips, it is hard on the motor, transmission, tires, and everything else that heat cycles. It is however perfect for an electric bike.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panhead_dan
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you let it idle and warm up before you take off, it'll run right but still won't evaporate the condensation as mentioned above. Any engine is this way. Most current non-Buell FI systems don't need the warm up in order to run right but it's still a good practice.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well Ive been riding since 1960 and have owned in excess of 50 bikes all air cooled and this is the only fuel injected one and the only one that bucks & stumbles for 3 or 4 miles before it runs right. Are you telling me this is normal, because its not on my other 14 bikes that have a choke on them ? Just asking is all. I dont take short rides with it because its a PIA to ride.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Littlebuggles
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My carb'd Cyclone is a lot nicer to ride on cold winter mornings, as far as engine behavior is concerned anyway. Much smoother to start, and cleaner response under gas.

Too bad my STT is set up with wind protection and heated gear wiring and grips...

My Suzuki GS500 was as bad as the XB, had to run that thing till the cases were totally warm is I didn't want it to stall under throttle when it was cold out.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panhead_dan
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When I said "any engine is this way", I was referring to the condensation.
To be clearer on the point, let the engine idle for a few minutes before you ride it. If it still doesn't run correctly, there is something wrong. If it does, yes it's normal.

I let my '06 warm up to full operating temp before I ride it every time. It runs great this way. If I start it cold and ride it without the warm up, it runs like crap for a while.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 03:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know nothing about FI but Id sure think 5 minutes would do it. Problem is this is cruiser country, the nearest place that knows anything about Buells is NHRS, about 600 miles away. I doubt the local Harley shop would even look at it. When it warms up out here Ill haul it to Denver I guess
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panhead_dan
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

5 minutes should do it. Seems logical to assume something is wrong.
When you turn on the key, after the check engine light goes off, does it come back on for a few seconds?
Is it on all the time?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panhead_dan
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has the exhaust and / or air filter been replaced with something that's not stock, factory parts?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Starter
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Its a very fine line getting the warm up and emissions tuned on a cold engine - and getting harder by the year.

Make sure you throttle sensor is correctly zeroed before chasing anything else.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The bike is 100% bone stock except for 1 inch handlebar risers and the right side air scoop. Where can I find some info on zeroing the TPS ? Ill try that first, then the Hog shop, then NHRS if needed. I really like the bike but it drives me nuts. Theres very little condensation problems in Montana with mostly single digit or low double digit humidity. Nothing in the oil, I just changed it
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I found the TPS deal but Ill have to have it done, I dont have the equipment or brains for that. Thanks for all the help & advise. I like carburetors better, I can fix them.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mesozoic
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You have tune it. There's tables for startup fuel enrichment and while warming up. I've tuned the crap out of mine and it starts and drives fine immediately after startup regardless of the temps.

Not sure why it wasn't tuned properly from the factory.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Terrys1980
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Not sure why it wasn't tuned properly from the factory.



EPA
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is this something a former Buell dealer could do or will they just do it to the factory specs ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Terrys1980
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes most HD dealerships can dyno tune your Buell.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mesozoic
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not sure if it's EPA or if Buell simply didn't have the TIME to tune things perfectly. The stock tables and cold start enrichment is too rich... my '08 wouldn't even maintain an idle for longer than 10 seconds at a time when I first got it. Simply stated, too rich. Since then, I've spent a lot of time tuning the bike and now it really runs great. Planning to add the MAP/baro and dual O2 upgrade when I find time for even better driveability.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Terrys1980
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm not sure why the cold start enrichment is so rich but is has remained unchanged from '05-'08.

Unless your altitude while riding changes 1000 feet or more regularly then I don't think the baro will do you much good.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Terrys1980
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Or if you plan on running forced induction.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mesozoic
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 01:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wasn't planning to turbo, but I live at 2500ft and regularly vary between 1000ft MSL and 9000ft in and around Tucson, AZ where I live.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtkawboy
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine is too lean, not too rich, Ive never see a bike stumble and buck from too rich. When spring gets here Ill do some checking around and if they cant do it here at Beartooth HD Ill haul it 530 miles to NHRS in Longmont Colorado
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panhead_dan
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a very good video on youtube showing how to do a TPS reset. Might be worth a look before you go to a lot of trouble and expense.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Littlebuggles
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry I don't know how to imbed the video, here's the link. My Stt is running like poo at the moment. think it needs the ecm tuned, calibrated, whatever...

I'll check with my HD shop tomorrow and see if they can do it for me, otherwise I'm looking for a good deal on a laptop, or packing my desktop down to my garage (after downloading ecm spy) to see if fueling is off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33__Qkvhn4&feature =results_main&playnext=1&list=PL029C6D654769AE97
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good luck getting a HD shop to be able to tune a Buell, doubt any of them understand learned fuel or can use ECM-Spy.
And Kawboy,you need to get the bike looked at to see what it is doing. AFR may be skewed rich affecting all the running.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mesozoic
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Can somebody post or point me to a post that has a photo of the '09-10 models' secondary O2 location on the header, please?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Littlebuggles
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Front header, at the bend. Circled in red.


@ the factory 10/2009
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cycledoc59
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My '06 XB12Ss was a pain to
ride at low speeds because of
being too lean, even after
finally warming up. An EJK solved
it; and still get 50mpg.
http://www.electronicjetkit.com/Sportbike/default. asp

I can ride along now at under 2K
without lurching and sputtering along.
Good stuff! I left the O2 sensors
connected, but on my 1125R, with an EJK
in place, both sensors are disconnected, and it's very happy.

I need to try the XB w/sensors unplugged.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting, have yet to see one. Be interested in how it works with the "learned fuel area" of the Buell.
Read all of their stuff and they really do not explain it, kind of dance around it.Want to know how they are sensing load.Seems they do not even tap into your TP signal---- And what gear you are in.

(Message edited by firemanjim on February 16, 2012)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cycledoc59
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Doesn't matter a lot to me, so long
as it works well;
I've used an EJK or the earlier
version, called a Techlusion in
4 different bikes of my own, and
3 or 4 in customer bikes.
http://www.dobeckperformance.com/

From '96 to about '02, the BMW oilhead
bikes had a terrible time with surging
issues; the Techlusion smoothed them
right out. The difference in my XB is
remarkable, and even better with the
1125R....

The Techlusion was not very adjustable,
and was fiddly to do. The EJK is
very adjustable, and really does
the trick.

Set up is best done on a dyno, but
they are shipped with recommended
settings. The ones in my XB and
1125 are still at factory settings.
The XB has a custom exhaust system
that I made, so was likely even leaner
than stock. The 1125 is stock.

Other than the piggy-back plugs, they
can often be moved from one bike to
another. One that I had in an Aprilia,
I later installed in a Harley 1340.

The EJK is rebranded and sold under a
number of names, like Jardine, or
JDJetting; http://www.pbase.com/jdjetting1/image/124775394
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mesozoic
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Running the ECM in open loop defeats the purpose of EFI. You may as well be running a carb if you're running open loop.

BTW, I get 65 mpg (calculated) with my '08 in closed loop on the highway.
« Previous Next »

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration