| Author | Message | ||
     Thefleshrocket |
Last week, I changed out the front tire on my 1125R with a new Q3+. I did it myself, and it went off without trouble. I rode it around a bit (like 30-40 miles or so) and didn't have any issues. I then trailered my 1125 to Deals Gap with some friends. At some point early in the trip, I noticed that I was getting a significant pulsation from the front brake. It seems to improve greatly, to the point that it was almost unnoticeable, when I got the front brake warm during some tight sections, but later after it had cooled down, the pulsation would return. I returned yesterday and pulled the front wheel tonight. Notice the ridge on the inner section of the rotor, as well as the scratch-looking marks around that vicinity. The pads themselves look mostly fine, except that they are worn down more than usual in the area that would have gone over the ridge. Not pictured, about 90 degrees away along the brake rotor, I could feel a raised sliver on the rotor in the middle of the ridged section. It's raised above the ridged section, and it feels slightly "sharp". I'm pretty sure it's what's damaged the pads in that region, causing the ridged section on the rotor but.. I don't get how it got there. I don't know how to describe what it feels like, except that it's kind of like what I'd expect metal to feel like if it got a splinter of wood in it. Weird, huh? Anyway, I am going to sand down the rotor's outside surface and see if that helps. Does anyone know what happened or have any input? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
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| Stevel |
It appears if there was trapped debris that became imbedded in the pad. Carefully inspect the pads for debris as well as any raised surface area on the disk's surfaces. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Ahh, that makes sense. Before I reinstalled the wheel, I used a screwdriver to push the pads (and therefore the caliper pistons) back into the caliper--this at least temporarily cures the slack that builds up in the front brake lever over time. I must have chipped off a piece of pad material slightly, and then it affected the rotor. I guess next time I decide to do that, I'll pull the pads and just push the pistons themselves. Do you think that going over the rotor with a rotating disc sander will be sufficient to bring it back to health? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
go here...scroll down for a picture of a "Brake Hone"... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/793276.html?1475812537 not cheap...auto zone shows about $60 http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-to ols/brake-and-engine-cylinder-hone/brush-research- coarse-rotor-flex-hone/341314_0_0 HTH | ||
| Terrys1980 |
WD40 and Brillo will get most of off, then throw on a good set of HH pads, make a few high speed stops and it will all go away. If you still want to buy a rotor hone pm me, I have a unused medium grit to sell. | ||
| Joe7bros |
I wonder what your state inspection requirements are for brake rotors. I think that would fail safety inspection in PA | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
We don't have any sort of safety inspections in Illinois. I went over the rotor multiple times with a rotating disc sander (went through about 10 discs) until it was almost completely smooth. The one groove can still be felt running my finger over it, but it's slight. I went for a test ride but still noticed some pulsation, but not like before. I found a post about the floating part of the rotor not floating properly, so I used a rubber mallet and tapped the rotor by each bolt. That seemed to free it up--as far as I can tell, there is no more pulsation or noise. So, at this point, I'm going to call it fixed. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Aaaaand.. when I rode it tonight, it's definitely pulsating again. I'm considering an 1190 rotor--as far as I understand, it's a drop-in replacement. But I read something else about needing the mounting hardware too? | ||
| Terrys1980 |
You sure it's not the pads you are using? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
How could pads cause pulsation? Pads are stationary, the rotor moves. | ||
| Mhpalin |
The material the pads are made of can build up on the rotor causing the pulsation I changed from stock to EBC bead blasted the rotor doesn't do it any more | ||
| Willmrx |
I got this info on another forum. Mudcat has it right. Disc brake shudder as it is often called, is the result of hot stops using the front brake excessively then, holding the bike at rest with the front brake, say at a stop light while awaiting the light change. This causes a transfer of some of the friction material binding agents in the hot pads to transfer to the cooler rotor. Now, you are left with a rotor with varying coefficients of friction across the area swept by the friction pads. This causes the shudder you experience. Race car drivers are especially cognizant of this phenomena and adapt their braking techniques to minimize it. Proper brake pad friction material can minimize the problem. The best option is when making a hot stop, release the front brake as you come to a stop and use the rear brake to hold the bike at rest. This braking technique is taught as part of the MSF basic course. Sanding the rotor is the only remedy I am aware of that works. | ||
| Nillaice |
Ebc HH are great for the from breaks (or at least sintered pads), but stick to semi-Metallics for the rear pads. Ebc' son the rear of my XB made the rotor squeaky | ||
| D_adams |
If you change the rotor, I'd also suggest new hardware and pads. Start fresh, it will make a world of difference. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Guys, this definitely isn't a "pad leaving deposits on the rotor" issue. I somehow got something embedded in the rotor, which I was hoping I had gotten out by sanding the rotor, but apparently not. I'm using DP Brakes HH+ pads, part number SDP993, and they have never been prone to leaving deposits--I have used them on multiple bikes with no deposit issues. I do have a spare set on the shelf as well. Dean, what's the story with the "new hardware"? I've heard it mentioned in the past, but don't recall the part number, or what the benefit is supposed to be. <edit> It just occurred to me that you guys might have thought it was the pads because of the amount of time between my post in late June and now. I've been mostly riding my Speed Triple this summer (for some silly reason, I want to get it and the 1125 up to the same amount of odometer miles, and the 1125 is about 1000 higher), so I had literally only ridden my 1125 once after my "repair" in late June before it lost its belt and spent more than a month waiting for a replacement. So I had actually only ridden about 25 miles between the repair and when I noticed that the pulsation wasn't fixed. (Message edited by thefleshrocket on September 11, 2017) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I found the brake rotor kit on the EBR website (and presumably it's for sale elsewhere too): http://www.erikbuellracing.net/store/models/1125r/ front-brake-rotor-mounting-kit.html The part number is CQ0001.11AZ. The description says: This kit replaces the stock front brake rotor mounting hardware. This mounting system increases the rotor to wheel contact, which improves the heat dissipating characteristics of the front brake system. It also reduces the brake drag of the system by keeping the rotor in better alignment in extended high temperature situations. These improvements provide more consistent lever feel for the racer. Recommended for use with: H0201C.08AZA 5MM FINNED FRONT BRAKE ROTOR H0201D.08AZ 6MM FRONT BRAKE ROTOR H0201.1B6 5MM FINNED FRONT BRAKE ROTOR. Also works with OE front brake rotor and offers improved heat dissipation over original hardware. Fits all XB and 1125 models. The only other place I can find it for sale is Diesel Moto, and it's listed as "preorder". https://dieselmoto.com/products/front-rotor-installation-kit Can I install a new (used) rotor using the stock 1125R hardware for now, and easily switch to the CQ0001.11AZ kit later (like without removing the wheel)? What's the drawback if I reuse the stock hardware? (Message edited by thefleshrocket on September 11, 2017) | ||
| Nuts4mc |
go here ( pictures to help you understand the difference between old and new hardware)...look for posts from the "wizard of whoa" (jdugger) he knows his stuff from many miles on the track with the 1125r's brakes. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/735621.html?1396796629 | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Before you toss it all, liberally spray brake cleaner into the spring holes at each mounting point. Those like to gather dust and gunk that may cause the binding issue. Clean it out good, be sure that the rotor can float at each point properly, then ride. If it's still bad at least you were only out some cleaner and 5 minutes. | ||
| D_adams |
I would just wait until you have the hardware. You could probably get away with cleaning the rotor, then replace the pads at that time when you have everything together. You should be able to feel any burrs, if so, keep cleaning/sanding it. A rotary disc with a scotchbrite pad would probably do the trick, worst case, a sanding disc. Just don't get super aggressive with it and grind off a bunch of material. I believe EBR (and Buell previously) stated that the bolts for the rotor were a one time use only item mainly due to the pre-applied loctite on them. It's white. I've not looked for that specific type, but in *theory* you could run a tap into each hole, spray cleaner in each one, clean the threads and then apply the proper type of loctite when re-assembling it. Personally, I'd replace it. I have 2 complete rotor/hardware/pad sets on hand myself. | ||
| Ducbsa |
I put an EBR rotor on my XB 2 or 3 years ago and I think it required an EBR mounting kit. IIRC, it is a slightly different design. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
My new-to-me 1190 rotor showed up today. It's got a little bit of I-can-feel-it-with-my-finger surface rust on a small portion of it. I was planning to hit it with a rotary sander, so that's no big deal, but I'm concerned about how flat it should be. My office desk has a glass surface and I'm moderately confident that it's flat. If I lay the new rotor on it and slowly rotate it while keeping my finger over the same spot on the desk and tapping the rotor, I hear a tapping sound at some points and not at others. This suggests that it's not of a consistent flatness, as the tapping varies with the place on the rotor, not the place on the desk (which does not change). Thoughts? (I have forgotten how to link pics, of course, and can't edit my previous post to see the syntax.) http://www.thefleshrocket.com/images/bike/1125r/brakes/IMG_9861.JPG http://www.thefleshrocket.com/images/bike/1125r/brakes/IMG_9863.JPG http://www.thefleshrocket.com/images/bike/1125r/brakes/IMG_9864.JPG (Message edited by thefleshrocket on September 13, 2017) | ||
| D_adams |
I'd say that rotor looks a bit smoked. Look more at the wear point where the bushings sit. Any signs of wear there at all, I'd pass on installing it. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Like Dean sez the surface finish doesn't look too good...you need some one with a blanchard grinder to re-surface the disk...there are some machine shops in the Chicago area that may help: http://www.innovative-grinding.co/ as far as flatness you may want to bolt it up and use a dial indicator to check (T.I.R) Total Indicator Runout here's a you tube movie on TIR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SbWB2CNqio remember the disk is mounted close to the rim, not the hub like other bikes...any rim/wheel runout (hit a pot-hole lately?) also affects the disk TIR...good luck, HTH | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
So, short version is that it technically isn't a good, ready-to-use rotor? I'll contact the seller about getting a replacement. Thanks, guys. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I sanded the heck out of my existing rotor this morning to get rid of the imperfections, and completely ruined it. Now instead of a slight thrumming pulsation under high-speed braking, the brake lever noticeably moves even at low speeds. (I brake-cleaned the rotor mount points, too, and ensured that the rotor floats smoothly.) Ooops. The vendor offered a refund, but I've replied asking him if he has a replacement that's in better shape. Looks like he amended the auction to say "these parts will likely need to be resurfaced", so I am guessing no. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buell-EBR-1190-Front-Brake -Rotor-/222619348256? If it was just up to me, I'd buy a new 1190 rotor and the hardware and be done with it. (I have a spare set of new DP Brakes SDP993 pads already.) But my wife is on my ass about vehicle spending (I am finishing up a ~$5000 supercharger upgrade on my Mustang and that project has grown in scope and cost beyond what she originally was cool with) so my intent is to get my bike back to its previously-functional form without excessive outlay. Honestly, I was fine with the performance of the stock rotor, but new ones cost about as much as the 1190 rotor. So my choices (on Ebay, at least) are: New 1125R rotor with hardware (presumably the non-upgraded hardware) for $330ish shipped. 1190 rotor without hardware for $300 so an extra $75 for hardware: Braking brand rotor without hardware for $230 so an extra $75 for hardware. Various used stock 1125R rotors, around $90. Unknown quality. No hardware, obviously. There are also some Chinese-sourced rotors for $180ish, but no way am I going that route. The Braking-brand rotor seems to be the best value--figuring I'll be about $300 in after new hardware. Any comments on how it compares to the stock 1125R rotor or the 1190 rotor? While I'm trying to keep my expenses down, I definitely don't want to spend money on something that I won't be happy with. Any input on why the rotor hardware should be replaced whenever the rotor is removed? Seems like a big expense for a few bolts and spacers. | ||
| Froggy |
There was someone who bought a bunch of recalled EBR rotors at the liquidation and was selling them, I wonder if those are them. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Recalled EBR rotors? Recalled for what?! | ||
| Froggy |
I can't find anything about an official recall, but EBR was swapping front rotors on early RXs due to surface issues causing what you describe. | ||
| Mope |
There were probably 50-60 totally roached rotors being sold by LAP. Nobody bought them on-site they were SO bad, but people did spend $$$ on the lots during the last online auction. Maybe this is one of those. If it's used, buyer beware - those rotors are moto art only! There were early finned rotors that had waves - we even saw examples in some of the shootout/review articles in mags. I haven't seen anyone that has actually found any of those in the LAP liquidation sell off, but everyone seems to be worried about it. |
