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Germblast
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Soooo, after I cleaned up my throttle body a bit following the directions of the thread using Seafoam spray I seem to have a temperature issue on the Instrument Cluster(IC).

This morning I was riding in, air temp according to TWC was 67deg. When I got the work (15min ride) it said the AT was 96deg. This is not the first time, the other day the IC stated it was 115deg AT, but it really was 93.

This was clearly incorrect. I am now wondering what happened when I cleaned the throttle body. Is there a sensor in the airbox that could have gotten damaged or clogged?

Thanks for any info
Jeremy
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Froggy
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The air intake sensor is located at the mouth of the intake scoop. Due to its location, it gets blasted with hot air from the fans when they kick in, so it will read higher than the ambient temperature. If it is correct before you start the bike when it has been sitting overnight, then it is fine.
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Rocketjump
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's normal, happens to me all the time.
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Germblast
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So your saying that its at the scoops on the sides of the bike.

In that case I might have done something because I noticed a bunch of debris in the scoops, took them off, vacuumed up everything and also blew out the areas that I couldn't vacuum.

Which side is it on, I'll have to pull off the cover and take a look at it. I notice that American Sport Bike has them for a few dollars, so if its bad that not too expensive.

Thanks
Jeremy
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Sprintst
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No, it's located under the IC in the ram air intake tube

But yes, it almost never reads the outside air temp

I'd love to know why they thought it's important to take up space on the dash - since there is nothing I can do to effect it
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Germblast
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ohhh, now I understand. The big scoops are for the radiators.
Does it look like this: http://americansportbike.com/newdir/Item/17503

Okay, I'll call it good for now unless something else comes up.

Thanks
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Zac4mac
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As long as you're moving, 45mph+, the AT will be close to ambient.
The numbers aren't really for the rider's convenience, they are for the ECM as it's the actual Intake Air temp used for fuel overlays.

At 60mph on a 2-lane in Winter, it's a good indicator of how hard you're shivering... Summer, not so accurate.
My 2012RS doesn't display this....

Z
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 03:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This has been talked about on multiple threads here. There is a problem with air box temperature and the sensor is mounted in the wrong location. The sensor should be moved into the air box under the air filter so that it actually reflects true intake air temperature. Secondly, once done, you will see VERY high temps because of radiant heat from the engine and radiators. You can also feel the temperature of the fuel tank/frame for the same reason. Insulating the air box and fuel tank against radiant heat really helps as well as relocating the radiators and rerouting waste air outside and away from the bike.
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Germblast
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 06:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow, Thanks for all the info on this. I thought there was something wrong with the sensors when I noticed the almost 20deg difference.
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Oldog
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Insulating the air box and fuel tank against radiant heat really helps,
Agreed and its easy to do..
as well as relocating the radiators and rerouting waste air outside and away from the bike.

Have you done this and if you have please show some pix.. I would live to see how you did it.



}
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Germblast
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I actually have no idea how to do either of those things. I guess I'll have to do some more searching of the site.

If someone has a quick link handy that would be great

Thanks
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Cf_z
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

as well as relocating the radiators and rerouting waste air outside and away from the bike.

Have you done this and if you have please show some pix.. I would live to see how you did it.



...

quote:

I actually have no idea how to do either of those things. I guess I'll have to do some more searching of the site.

If someone has a quick link handy that would be great



Fairly certain the "easiest" way to do this would be to pick up all the parts needed from a newer EBR bike. From what i understand they mostly all fit without issue.

Locating the parts and the price of the parts may become the frustration.

Are there other ways to accomplish the same goal? Of course, but finding parts and the price may be even more frustrating.


quote:


There is a problem with air box temperature and the sensor is mounted in the wrong location. The sensor should be moved into the air box under the air filter so that it actually reflects true intake air temperature.



Doing the above is actually not that hard if you know how to solder and are decent with a dremel. extend your IAT sensor wires and dremel out the same size hole in the side of your airbox. Move the grommet to your new hole and pop in the IAT.

I will warn (as said above) my tempurature reading didnt change that much with the IAT relocation. Its still very hot in there.

(Message edited by cf_z on August 04, 2015)
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Mrlogix
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

there is an insulating material available from American Sport Bike if I am not mistaken. If not American Sport Bike the Summit Racing or Jegs. They use it to insulate firewalls and floorboards for heat transfer.Has a foil side and an adhesive side. Use it to insulate the bottom of airbox and frame.
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gblast...go here (how to with pictures)read the complete thread before you start drilling and soldering...
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/558128.html
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Stevel
Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 06:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oldog,
No, I have not done this yet. This IS a big job and problematic as well, because of the lack of available space. If this was easy, Erik would have this long ago. I will do this and am playing with different solutions. To date, the RS solution is best, but those radiators are very expensive, so there needs to be a plan that is economical, retains the narrow profile a V twin offers and solves the heat issue. The easiest solution is to use RX components, which is a compromise, but these parts are also expensive and with the state of EBR at the moment, perhaps a better solution should be used. I am toying with the idea of using the original 1125 radiators mounting one where the headlight is and the other in front of the engine like everybody else does. Of course a completely new support frame must be fabricated to support the new configuration. This will take a lot of planning, tools and equipment most of us do not have. I am fortunate in that I have all the tools and equipment to do this. At the moment, this is the solution I am favoring. I must also make a new subframe that lowers the seat position at least 1", perhaps 2". As I stated before, there is very limited room between the engine and front wheel. Erik was obsessed with maintaining a short wheelbase and short fork angle to retain as much steering response as possible for handling reasons, but in doing so, created a real heat management issue. I am prepared to move the frame steering head forward if necessary to gain the necessary radiator clearance.
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Mrlogix
Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

personally like the solution that the pegasus team came up with in the typhoon
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Germblast
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 07:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've never heard of the Typhoon. What was their solution?
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Typhon with one O. Their solution was to use the stock 1190RR-B radiators that were already on the bike.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


Typhon
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does the race ECM use the IAT data? I would assume so, as it seems the amount of fuel would vary based on the temp of the intake air, race ECM or not.
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Germblast
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like that, I also like the SX model too. I have heard about the AX, but will look up those.

I guess i the end I will just deal wit the temp issue.

Oh, I did build a shelf type thing under the shield and above the IC. It goes al let way down to the point of the shield. I wonder if that shelf is causing any issues. I can post a picture of it if required.
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Does the race ECM use the IAT data? I would assume so, as it seems the amount of fuel would vary based on the temp of the intake air, race ECM or not.




It does, but it is at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of how much influence it has on fueling. Reading high is not a big deal for it.
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Stevel
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 04:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Froggy,
I'm not sure you are correct. The race ECM uses closed loop only. It is my understanding that there are no dynamic fueling changes that take place.
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Germblast
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 08:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do have a race ECM tuned for the exhaust. If it uses a closed loop then the IAT would not come into play for the A/F ratio.

I am just keeping an eye on it and any ill effects on the idle and running.
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