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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » BB&D Archives » Archive through December 18, 2006 » Rear Wheel Bearing Failure « Previous Next »

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Tel
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 06:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just saw a post on another forum of a picture of a rear wheel bearing failure on a Uly. Anyone here ever experienced a failure?



I don't know how legitimate the post is.
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Trojan
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This has been a relatively common problem on the XB, but is usually caused by ham fisted mechanics rather than any inherant fault.
The spacer in the rear wheel is soft aluminium, and if you overtighten the rear spindle it crushes the spacer and leads to bearing failure. DON'T OVERTIGHTEN THE SPINDLE!
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Adrian_8
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine went out too...about 18,000 miles...not that drastic...one side was was severely ate up...I could hear it clicking and snapping. I jacked up the bike and had substantial side play in the rear wheel. The bad bearing also ate into the spacer between the two bearings and had to be replaced.
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Smcnamara
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's a good tip Matt, and something I need to check out on my Uly. I recently had a new set of tires mounted, and I'm wondering if the guy over-torqued the spindle.

Lately I've had a weird feeling on the bike while cornering sharply left where it feels like the chassis slides to the right, but not at all like the tires have slid... With the recent wheel bearing talk, I'm wondering if that might be what I'm experiencing...

Scary.
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Red_chili
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, so on ADVrider, someone pointed out that the spacer between the bearings is showing rust, indicative of it NOT being aluminum. What's the story?

Ignorant minds want to inquire (or something like that anywho...).
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Asdf
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Chili, metallurgical analysis via a photo on the Internet is difficult if not impossible.

However, having said that, I must mention that in the past, I have seen aluminum that is coated and stained with rust and/or impregnated with rust.

Of course aluminum does not rust. If the part in the photo is aluminum, something else rusted, and the rust migrated to where the aluminum was located. (Rusted and failed bearings, perhaps?)

Usually, rust will be dissolved or suspended in water. The water will be the vehicle for migration. The Iron Oxide then coats and embeds onto and into the aluminum.

The appearance of the galling on the spacer that is shown on ADVrider suggests that the spacer could be an aluminum alloy...

The fact that the spacer is coated with or embedded with what we assume to be rust, simply suggests that rust was present in the same close proximity to the part that was photographed.

I have not taken my axle apart to see if the spacer is aluminum or steel. Other reputable and reliable folks have taken them apart, and they state that the spacer is an aluminum alloy.

Rust that is on or embedded into a metal part does not mean that the stained and discolored part is ferrous.

Grub fer ponder'in!
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Adrian_8
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 07:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My spacer was ate up too..and it was very light, if I had to say what it was it is aluminum...The rust is probably off the bearings that had rusted after the seal let go. The seal on the bad bearing was off on one side and some of the bearings were missing, quite ugly.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 10:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looking at the color of the metal, it appears much too silver/white to be steel. I believe that the hub had water introduced due to over tightening wrecking the seals. Once the seals were gone, the bearing proceeded to completely disintegrate. I believe the rust was splashed on the spacer with the water and came from the bearings.

If you look, the rust doesn't appear to have pitted the metal at all.
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Snowscum
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry to ask since I dont have a SM but what torque do you use for the back wheel?
Going to change out tires this weekend.

Thanks in advance
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Adrian_8
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The service manual says on page 2-21 to tighten rear axle to 23-27ft-lbs, back off two full turns and then retighten to: 48-52 ft-lbs. Tighten pinch fastener on right side of swingarm to: 24-26 ft-lbs.
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Snowscum
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Adrian! Ill make sure we dont over tighten. So is 50 ftlbs to much or you guys think it is right?
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Snub13
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey, that pic looks very familliar....I only posted in one spot, someone else stole my pic and reposted it, hey I want royalties!
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Snub13
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 07:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=17&post=753567#POST753567


This is my story and I sticking to it!

As you can see, the spacer does have some Fe oxide discoloration but as you can also see in the wear area of the same part, it is Al. The "rust" is from another part.

On the other hand, it may not be rust (or rust dust, or migrated rust) at all. If you look closely at the "before" pics of the bearing, it looks like there is some sort of red(ish) (rust colored) liquid that was slung out of the bearing area. Anyone know what color grease is used in the bearings?
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Tel
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Snub13 where did you post the pic? I found it at www.ulyssesclub.org.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I posted the complete thread over in ADVRider.

Snub, your check's in the mail. ;)
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Dragon_slayer
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Guys, that rust colored stuff is .........RUST! Or if you want to know the tech term "Bearing Pulp". It is produced when bearings beat themself to death. Not pretty, but hey, we are talking about a black Uly here.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 11:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Isn't rust, ORANGE?
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Adrian_8
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My wheel was tightened exactly to the specs everytime the tires were changed. If I was going to take a long trip and the bike had approx. 18,000 miles on the original bearings for peace of mind I would change them.
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Retired_cop
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looks to be ORANGE to me........}
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No ....No, it is brown rust....definitly brown.....
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Chadhargis
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I mounted new tires a couple of days ago and did my usual inspection of my bearings. The front bearings turn freely, but the ones on the rear wheel as so stiff you can't spin them with your fingers (especially since they have anti-sieze on the from inserting the axle). They aren't loose, and don't show any signs of damage.

I have the SM and always put my axle in using the proper proceedure.

I'm going to remove my wheel and take it to the dealer to see what they have to say about it.
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Xbimmer
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This whole thread is bothering me.

My BMW has almost 200k on the (original) front wheel bearings and half that on the rears.

What is it about XB wheel bearings? Are they Chinese and installed when the wheels are manufactured?

"Maintenance free" bearings should include replacement maintenance and certainly not less than 20k miles...

Anybody know the size of the rear bearings/seals?

I'd rather inspect and regrease some NMB's or SKF's every 20k than have to worry about this.
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M2nc
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What's the count on bearing failures on Ulys and other Buells so far? It will be something to inspect for at every tire change. That's for sure.

Another questions to the Old Schoolers here. Has Buell changed wheel bearing manufactures and/or types since 1999? I know the M2 has the original wheel bearings at 44,500 miles with no problems. I was just wondering.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 01:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What's the big deal.

At my current rate, I get to "inspect" the bearings every 2700 miles. If they're bad, they get replaced.

200,000 miles? I don't know that I would judge all bearings in the world by that standard.

If they go bad and you feel more comfortable doing it, upgrade to the highest quality that you can find.

What do the platinum standard bearings cost?
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Xbimmer
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.softcom.net/users/w6rec/duane/bmw/bmwwheel.htm

Explains the 200k wheel bearings. Long and maybe boring to read but this guy's website is a treasure trove of info for owners of older Beemers. Thanks Duane Ausherman!

The front/rear/swingarm bearings are all the same and about $25 each from BMW but half that from a bearing vendor for the same quality.

In one of those pics on Snub's original post there's a closeup of the largest part of the failed bearing. I may be missing something but I don't get why the center section doesn't seem open enough for the axle to pass through to the swingarm(?).


Snub's bearing


I see also that we have ball bearings in there, which is why I definitely will be carefully torquing my axles when I swap tires today...
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It looks like they tackwelded a washer to the race the help them get it out.
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2_spuds
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here is a pic of the stock rear bearings.
The package they come in says front bearings
however the parts guy says that they share applications with other bikes, so evidently
the uly's rear brgs are used as the front brgs on another bike.




This winter I will take the wheel to my machinist and see if it can be fitted with
some wider better Quality bearings. The package the bearings are in state made in
USA, but the bearings are clearly marked made in Tiwan.
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Chadhargis
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 06:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I took my rear wheel to the dealer today and let the service manager look at it. He asked a mechanic to look at it. He compared it to another Buell wheel they had in the shop and said they were the same. Everything was normal.

Guess I was being overly paranoid after reading this post.

Better safe than sorry.
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Jmhinkle
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 02:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you take those bearings to a bearing distibutor like Bearings, Inc or similar, they will match them up size wise to a much higher quality component and they are usually pretty cheap. A lot of times cheaper than OEM. That what I have done on old motorcycles and ATV's needing bearings replaced. My Honda ATC200 Big Red has several bearings that are non Honda, but of higher quality and cheaper price than the OEM.
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