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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Archive through July 20, 2015 » Weird power cutout « Previous Next »

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Skifastbadly
Posted on Sunday, June 28, 2015 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I still love my Uly, but I don't ride it much because I'm still in the throes of an affair with my new Triumph Tiger Explorer. Today, though, I figured I'd take the Uly out and compare it to the TEX, which now has over 4K miles on it. Two things, which may be related: Since I replaced the starter, I've been fiddling with the slack in the drive chain. I find after it warms up it's difficult to downshift to first. On the other hand, the Tiger shifts so smoothly that I might just have forgotten how stubborn the Uly can be. On the other hand, something happened today which causes me to think "now what?"

After the bike got nice and warmed up, and after I filled her with 92 octane, I was tooling down the road when I experienced a very short but very complete loss of power. It was so short that I thought at first maybe I had jerked the throttle or something, but then it happened a couple of more times. So I turned around and headed toward home in a very puckered fashion. The twenty miles back to the house were uneventful.

It was not raining...despite the desperate need we have for rain in these parts. I have already re-located the ECM. The plugs are fairly fresh. So thoughts? Maybe plug wires? Anybody else experience something like this? Bueller? BUELLER?
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Griffmeister
Posted on Sunday, June 28, 2015 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe it's jealous of the Tiger. You say it's been kind of sitting around for a while, sounds like another recent post here. Just in case, have you checked for signs of vermin? Might want to pull the airbox just in case.
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Ktmguy
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine has done this occasionally. At least until it warms up. Once warm and the ECM clicks its pretty non existent.
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Uly_man
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the bike does ANYTHING occasionally then there is a good chance that something is wrong with it.

A total lose of power would be an electrical problem IE BAS, switch interlock and/ or wiring fault/ damage. For the most part anyway.
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Tootal
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

For the most part I agree with Uly man but since you just filled up with gas I wonder if you got a slug of water? Just a thought since it started right after filling up.
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Paul56
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1 on the Bank Angle Sensor. Mine failed intermittently a few times just as you described before I disassembled it and glued the worn pendulum in place.
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Ktmguy
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine has had an intermittent rare sputter / cutout for 4 years now during warm up until the ECM switches.. then no more. I assumed it was normal with a primitive fuel injection design and having the mapping altered. However my bike has Always done this, so it is normal for me, but to have it suddenly start happening I would assume something to have changed as well.
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Falloutnl
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What do you guys mean by 'when the ECM switches'?
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Brother_in_buells
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I guess they mean open loop and closed loop.
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Ktmguy
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, sorry Open closed loop.. I'm not 100% sure why I typed it that way. Been loaded up on Zertec for allergies and barely functioning over the last 3 days anyway.L
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Thursday, July 02, 2015 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll take a look at the BAS when it cools down, it's too damned hot to work on a motorcycle this week. I recently replaced the steering bearings, so the whole front end and under the seat was exposed, no rodentia. I recall someone else who replaced his bearings stated that it's possible to muck up the front wiring bundle in that process, so I'll give that a look as well.

(Message edited by skifastbadly on July 02, 2015)
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Readyxb
Posted on Thursday, July 02, 2015 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

I was tooling down the road when I experienced a very short but very complete loss of power. It was so short that I thought at first maybe I had jerked the throttle or something, but then it happened a couple of more times.



BAS was mentioned as a suspect, but this is not a symptom of BAS failure or activation.

For the ECM to take action based on BAS input, it must see a "tilted" signal for > 1 second, after which the ECM kills spark and fuel. The important distinction between your issue and BAS trip behavior is that, once tripped by the BAS, the ECM doesn't restore fuel/spark until Ignition power is turned off and back on.

Based on your description, it sounds like the power loss was complete but then automatically came back, meaning you didn't have to pull over, cycle the power switches, and retry. Is that correct?
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Xbimmer
Posted on Friday, July 03, 2015 - 01:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does the CEL come on briefly, and/or the instrument needles sweep? Mine was doing similar, I thought it might be the ignition or kill switch, until it happened at night once and the headlights stayed on. I found I had cracks in the ECM:




Of course it could have been utter coincidence but the shenanigans stopped when I resoldered the joints on both my ECMS. I've switched them around a couple times with no repeats of that particular behavior.
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Steveford
Posted on Friday, July 03, 2015 - 04:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Xbimmer,
Are you the fellow I sent my race ECM to for a repair attempt last Spring?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, July 03, 2015 - 09:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Did it backfire when it came back on?

Yours is the (very early) symptom of a failing camp position sensor. When the stall lasts longer, you will get the mother of all backfires when it comes back online.

Hard to diagnose until it gets worse. I have a spare CPS (off Hugh's bike I think) that you can borrow if you want to try it.
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Xbimmer
Posted on Friday, July 03, 2015 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Steveford nope, not me.

My 2006 original ECM started acting up to the point that I could shut off the engine by pushing on the gray connector. Picked up a new takeoff from a 2007, not only did it fix that problem but the pinging I had since new disappeared.

Couple years later the problem I described above emerged with the 2007 ECM. I opened up the 2006 and did the resolder and swapped it back in. Opened up the 2007 and resoldered it too.

To be honest I don't remember which of my ECM's is in the pic above, they were both cracked the same anyway. I have swapped them back and forth a couple times, pretty sure I have the 2006 in the bike now since it's pinging in the heat again.
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Djohnk
Posted on Friday, July 03, 2015 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you have not relocated your ECM I will vote that. When the bike warms it makes the seat pan less stiff and it presses on the ECM connectors, damaging it. Over time it worsens until the bike won't run right at all..

From your member page picture you look like a fairly big guy, probably at least 6'3". I think this is usually a "big-guy" problem. Also when you ride two-up.
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Saturday, July 04, 2015 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Great feedback. I have relocated the ECM, quite some time ago. (I'm 6'0, 195). Reep, did you mean CAM position sensor?

I don't recall a backfire.

Readyxb, it just stalled and then came right back, never had to do anything, it lasted less than a second, so probably not BAS. I'll take it out in the next couple of days and see what shakes out.

The only time I've experienced this on a Uly before was bad cheap gas.
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Rayycc1
Posted on Saturday, July 04, 2015 - 09:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

this happened to me...it was a loose battery cable that felt tight but wasn't
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Uly_man
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2015 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"pretty sure I have the 2006 in the bike now since it's pinging in the heat again". This is a case in point regarding the "pinging" issue IE Damage in the wiring system or other. On my 06 bike the bad Earth on the rear sub-frame stopped the timing from changing as it should.

On my 10 bike a logged run was 32 C cold/ 8 degrees at idle and 175 C hot/ 1.5 degrees at idle. Maximum advance was 36.7 degrees. The timing will advance due to many things IE Load, engine temp, etc but if the ECM is not getting the right numbers then the timing will be wrong and the bike WILL NOT run right.


Crank position sensor on late bikes, cam on the 06 bikes.
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