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Skifastbadly
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I maybe could go back to the old thread on this but it may be better to start fresh.

Recently, I noticed a definite click coming from the front end when braking. If I hold the brake on and force the front end down, it clicks as well.

Because riding around on a bike with a screwy front end makes me nervous, I'm trying to diagnose this. My first thought, discussed earlier, is that the steering head bearings are shot. But both my daughter and I, listening, think it's coming from the left side which wouldn't make a lot of sense. Last night I was sitting at my local brew pub talking to a guy who knows something about bikes and he said 'could be an axle. Could be something inside the fork.'

Which would be ok because I really dread tearing down the entire front end.

So a couple of questions for the collective:

Have any of you heard such a noise and diagnosed it as something other than the bearings?

Any idea what could be going on with the left fork to make such a noise? Is it possibly significant that a couple of years ago I had to replace the seal on the RIGHT fork, and at that time changed only that side's fork oil?

In the service manual, one of the first steps is removal of the brake handle, and apparently the entire front end comes off (forks, wheel, etc.) as an assembly. Is that right?

Any other obvious things I'm overlooking?

Thanks
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Gp81
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, and it scared the shit outta me when I found it the next day.....

The top mounting bolt for the front caliper loosened up and fell out and the sound was the caliper pivoting on the bottom bolt and slapping against the fork.

Talk about pucker factor....
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks GP but if it were the brake, it would be on the right side, not the left. Right?
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Gp81
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well my initial thought was steering head bearings, had that click before that you could feel in the bars under breaking so I thought very little of the issue and continued my ride. The next day I went though the head adjustment and while testing the resistance the caliper flopped. Something I never would have thought to check, I've never even heard of that happening before so just a heads up is all.

Head bearing adjustment is rather simple and only takes a few minutes, I would start there, but on a note of pure safety I would check the caliper bolts. I keep thinking what COULD have happened if the bottom bolt let go and the caliper dropped into the rim at the avg speed of 85 I was doing that day....
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Buewulf
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2015 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I guess since you asked if it could be something other than bearings, then you are already 100% confident that the steering head bearing are OK, correct?

Push the front wheel up to a wall and see if you can recreate the symptom by pushing the front end down WITHOUT holding the brake.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looking beyond things which could have been left loose:

Brake pads can shift in the caliper. Click.
Fork springs can move inside of the fork tube. Still a click, but with a different quality.
Wheel bearings can be worn. Rarely click with straight fore-aft stress though.
A broken damping adjuster rod can click too. Try adjusting rebound through it's range, one fork at a time, and see if damping changes.
Handlebar clamp?
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK I've decided to dive in and put in the new bearings. I have the forks off, working on removing the front end. So, I come across these weird torx screws...they call them 'Tamper Proof'. They differ from regular torx because they have a cylinder in the center preventing the use of a regular torx. So I went online and ordered a set of 'Tamper Proof' torx and they'll be here Thursday. So wtf, how is that 'Tamper Proof'?
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Sagehawk
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ski: that would be so a person couldnt remove partitions in a public restaraunt restroom! Thats the only place ive ever seen that type of fastner. Well, they are not safe now! Lol!
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Tootal
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I used vise grips to remove them and ordered the tools. By the time I was going back together I had them. You just have to break them lose and they will thread out by hand. It figures, they are the only screws that didn't have loctite on them!
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Buewulf
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"So, I come across these weird torx screws...they call them 'Tamper Proof'"

I have a large set of "tamper proof" bits in all shapes and sizes now. But before I did, I would just run a hacksaw across the screw head head to make a slot for a flathead screwdriver.

So did you actually determine it was the steering head bearings, or are you just in replace and pray mode?
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Arry
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Were you experiencing a single click each time you applied the brakes, or repetitive clicking each time you apply the brakes (click click click).
If the steering head bearings are loose, you might get a single click, when you apply the brakes, as the front end suddenly shifts in relation to the frame.
Did you determine that the steering head bearings are bad? If they are just a little loose, you might get away with just adjusting them a little tighter and not have to replace them or disassemble the front end (I believe).
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Arry, it's a single click which apparently is triggered by fork dive. I can keep the brakes applied and rock back and forth and get a click each time. I already adjusted the bearings once and that only lasted for a month so I'm pretty sure at this point it's the bearings. I have a set on hand, and the bike is half torn down, waiting for the special torx. It's a weird damned place to decide to use 'tamper proof' torx, the only two such screws on the bike, as far as I can tell. The only logic I can fathom is that they fasten the ignition but man, you have to tear quite a bit into it to get to them.
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General_ulysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You didn't mention if the "click-click-click" increased linearly up and down with speed (as if associated with a purely rotating periodicity). But you do say it clicks even when the bike is stationary and you're only compressing the forks with the brake on.

I'd check the brake rotor securing bolts carefully, including where they screw into the wheel. I'd carefully inspect the brake rotor for cracking. I'd carefully inspect the caliper, pads and mounting system. I'd definitely do the test proposed earlier by deadheading the wheel against a wall and without using the brake, repeat the fork compression test. Suspend the front end so the wheel spins freely. Check bearing free play and listen for noises. Try rocking the forks back and forth and see if you detect headstock play. Also check the triple trees and make sure the clamping bolts are secure and the trees are not damages in any way.

Just a start, good luck.
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Arcticktm
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ski,
You sure you have to remove those special torx screws? It sounds like the steering lock. I replaced my steering head bearings a couple years back and never had to touch those. Unless your bike is different than the '06 due to the extra steering sweep??
I found on mine that the lower bearing was the really sloppy one.
Went ahead and replaced the stock design with a tapered bearing setup (I bought the AllBalls setup for something like $25). I like that design better, but it was a bit of work to press in the upper race without it going sideways since I didn't have a proper press tool setup.
I also had to come up with my own bearing preload/torque process, since AllBalls provides zero help or advice. If you use the stock torque with a tapered setup you will just about crush the bearings and be lucky if you can turn the handlebars at all.
I used a fish scale and went just a bit higher than the service manual spec for resistance on the stock bearings.
I agree with the others to check everything you can find while you are working on it, even though you sound committed to the bearings now.
Also check that its not the brake line behind the flyscreen, but that should be more on the right side.
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Tootal
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just looked at my old thread and it says that they are for the lock but need to come off because they also hold the housing on.





The original locking shafts I made were too short because I used a dimension from the internet, (It never lies!), but the person had taken the measurement with the housing off so my shafts were short by the thickness of the housing.
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Arcticktm
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm. I know I did my bearings, and I know I have never had the special security torx.
Maybe I remove them with vice grips and forgot?
Hard to tell anymore.
I've forgotten more than I ever thought I would know at this point.
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Tootal
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 05:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've forgotten more than I ever thought I would know at this point.

Amen brother!
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm. I know I did my bearings, and I know I have never had the special security torx.
Maybe I remove them with vice grips and forgot?


Man, that's some tamper proofing, right there....
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Craig- you don't necessarily need to replace your steering head bearings because you hear a "click". You should adjust them first and see if that fixes the click. If the steering feels "notchy", THEN you need to replace the bearings.
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Xbimmer
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2015 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't remember exactly either but I'm pretty sure I left everything still attached to the upper tree and swung it out of the way once I dropped the lower out of the neck. You have to be careful with all those delicate wires though, when I got it all back together I had some electrical gremlins to sort.

I'm hoping to install my Timkens this w/e since mine are clicking big time right now. Seems I over tightened the last new stockers and they notched, I've been riding it a little loose for awhile but now they click-clunk every time I brake so it's time. Should be easier this time since I intend to separate the forks from the lower tree to service them.
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Tootal
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2015 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's a link to my old thread. I did the steering neck bearings along with changing the triple trees and changed to 07 springs. More info than you need but might help somewhere along the line:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/442538.html?1236474150
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2015 - 05:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks, Tootal, this greatly reduced the dread at pulling everything apart. I've gone this far I might as well put the bearings in. Sure hope this resolves the noise because if the Uly isn't humming it's gonna be sitting while I ride the Tiger 1200.
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Chromehead
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2015 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had the same on my 08XT and ended up being the front isolator bushing.

HD ended up replacing the entire mount and bushing under extended warranty. Was a loud click when applying front brakes and the front dives down, or as you said if you held the brake and pushed it down.

Just another suggestion to possibly look at.
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Skifastbadly
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2015 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, al-righty then.

My boss is in Spain and it's Friday and I work from home, so I decided to play hookey and get at it. The set of 'ridiculous and inconvenient tamper proof torx' (RAITPT) arrived yesterday, so I thought I could get it at least all torn down. The lower RAITPT bolt was a bear to get at, it was behind a bunch of stuff, but the vice grips trip worked just fine. So off comes the front assembly (I had early removed the tire and forks). Getting the bearings out was a bit of a hack, it turns out that there are little notches in the inside of the neck which you can use to get a tool against the outer race to pound out. Not so bad.

Next thing is to put the new ones in. I thought about just pounding them in (they're not rear wheel bearings or anything) but I decided maybe the Fred Flintstone approach wasn't the wisest. I ran over to the auto supply shop assuming they would have bearing tools but nope. So, as my father would have done (assuming my father had a motorcycle, which he didn't, and was handy with tools, which he wasn't, and was inventive, which he wasn't, and enjoyed fixing stuff, which he didn't) and assembled one which consisted of a 5/8 bolt 12" long, an assortment of washers (two on each side the ID of which was greater than the OD of the bearing lip) and a nut. I went back home and whaddya know, the bearings squoze on perfectly. Heck, this is easier than changing a belt in the rain without tools.

Anyway, I put everything back on (that last nut, the back one on the instrument panel? What a giant pain in the ass) and I was just putting on the right side plastic fender bits when....when....WHEN....I noticed that when I had put the right fork on I had ended up with the braided steel brake line ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE FORK. It was on the outside instead of the inside, and I am an idiot. So I thought I had to re-do the entire right side including removing the fork, but like I said I'm an idiot and it was only after I removed the brake caliper from the mount on the leg that I realized I could just pull it up, route through the inside of the fork, and put it all back together again. So all that swearing coming out of the garage while the nuns were walking by was probably not necessary.

After that, I put it all together. I must tell you that the original bearings *looked* ok (except for the damage done pounding them out) and they *felt* ok so in the back of my mind I was thinking "Oh Lord," but then I remembered that I'm an atheist so then I was thinking "Oh Flying Spaghetti Monster, what if the click is still there? Why didn't I listen?"

But
It
Worked.

Bike appears to be fixed. Estimate of total hours including staring at things trying to figure them out ~6 hours. Four of which I should have been working on a powerpoint presentation for next week so it's not like I wasted any valuable time.

Test run indicates all is well, I even remembered to hook the horn back up.

Stay tuned for another episode coming soon of "How a Monkey Works on a Motorcycle", or "Zen and the Art of Pounding On Stuff."
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Buewulf
Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Glad you got it sorted. And a great read! Thanks!
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Tootal
Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This may be selfish but I love it when your bike breaks cause you end up on here telling these outrageous stories and making me laugh out loud!

Good job!
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Twisteduly
Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fantastic
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