| Author | Message | ||
     Fwiw |
I have no training in riding dirt. I am planning a Trans Labrador trip for next year. I'm told the road has long stretches of soft gravel. What is the recommended technique for this? How does one prepare? | ||
| Strokizator |
Stand up on the pegs, weight somewhat forward over the bars. Going too slow will be just as bad as going too fast. Find a speed where things feel right to you. My $0.02 | ||
| Ejc |
If you're truly off road, lowering your tire pressure may help you gain traction. Dirt bikes run in the range of 12-15psi. I wouldn't go that low. You might ding a rim. 20-25psi might be better. Of course you'll need a means to re-inflate when you find tarmac again. If its really soft gravel,(read sand), keep the front end light. | ||
| Lazylion |
There you have it. Put your weight forward over the bars and keep the front end light.  How about this. Just relax. Don't get all tense and nervous about it. Go easy, feel it out and have a good time. Oh, take pictures and report back how it goes. | ||
| Miamiuly |
Lazylion gives good advice. I'd keep the front light rather than weight over the bars, standing, knees slightly bent and butt to the rear in real soft/rough stuff. Sounds kind of like beginners water-skiing now that I spell it out. If you aren't used to using front brake off road, be careful with that too. | ||
| Jim_sb |
With my DRZ400S - in soft sand or gravel - I'd get on the pegs and on the gas and keep my speed up. I tried this with the Ulysses in Death Valley (in sand and soft gravel) and I was rewarded with a near tank slapper twice when the sand / gravel was 4" deep or more. The slapper was serious. Bars swapping ends violently (my grip was light). I had to manhandle the bars to regain control. IMHO the geometry of the Uly places too much weight on the front tire when the rider is standing in those conditions. Couple that with the Uly's very aggressive rake/trail specs - as opposed to those of a dirt bike - and you can see how this might occur. I was running 616's at that time at book pressure settings. I was reluctant to reduce pressure because of the embedded rocks - I was afraid of denting the wheels. I got better results by remaining seated on the Ulysses. Long term fix - I will get a steering damper. My recommended fixes (in order of preference) are: 1. Get a steering damper and enjoy the trip. 2. Failing that, stay on your seat to keep the front end light, stay relaxed and loose. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara '06 XB12X Ulysses '04 DRZ400S | ||
| Skrobe |
I too find remaining seated, keeping the front end light the most effective for handling gravel situations on the Ulysses. Use the throttle to maintain control rather than the brakes (if possible). Don't try to over-correct my strong-arming the handlebars. To a degree, let the front wheel wander the way it wants to, modulate the throttle to keep yourself going in a straight line. | ||
| Rotorhead |
1st question How full will your bags be? 2nd are you riding 2 up?(not a chance in hell my wife would) I have found that with my bags heavy standing helps stabilize the bars due to the rear end being so much heavier than the front. I found a speed and a gear that let me to use the throttle to help engine brake and steer instead of the front brake and lean(weight on the outside peg). I don't recall using my front brake the whole 60+ miles of gravel last weekend. Be careful when crossing the berm from the tire grooves of trucks, that is the real loose stuff. I stand up and steer with the throttle over the berms. A burp of the throttle will lighten the front end over the berm and then letting off the throttle will transfer the weight back to the front end on the other side. After a few miles you'll get comfortable with what works for you and by the end of the day you will find your speed is 2 times how you started off that day. | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
Some good advice. The peg position on the Uly is ok for standing (puts more weight on the rear) but the bars are too low and most people need to 'hunch' down to reach them, thus putting more weight on the front. In that case, you'd be better off staying seated. If you can stand with your knees bent enough to have NO weight on the bars, do that. Ideally with enough movement in your knees and arms to extend them and stick your bum out over the pillion seat, for when you need to quickly unweight the front. I wouldn't use a steering damper, the front needs to be allowed to move around... and you need to learn when to let it move and when to muscle it back where you want. I don't think there's any easy way to learn that haha. When standing on the Uly, the reach to the bars feels almost vertical, so it's difficult to get a good feel and control. Extending your arms and moving your butt back over the pillion seat helps that, but requires some athleticism. You see that the girl who races the fluffy pink CityX positions herself like this a lot, more-so than riders on other bikes with longer rakes.   Also with the stumpy tallness of the Uly, the effects of your momentum when standing is exagerated compared to more conventional bikes. Ie, accelerating while standing transfers more weight to the rear, decelerating transfers more to the front, turn transfers more to the sides, etc. Especially standing on bumpy roads, the deceleration of hitting a bump could easily move your body weight forward and onto the bars, which would be almost vertically below your body, thus difficult to control... instant recipe for a tank slapper. The 'exageration' can be exploited though, on road and dirt, by moving around more and helping the bike out. +1 for Rotorheads advice about gear selection and using the throttle. I find that I cruise at higher rpm on dirt, trying to stay around ~4500rpm so the peak power is ready to kick in whenever I need it. When crossing berms, ruts, bumps, etc. I sometimes get into trouble with the rear wheel just spinning and not taking any weight of the front (since we can't get any decent dirt tyres ). To help that a bit I use the "bounce" technique, like doing a wheelie on an underpowered bike. I'm doing a BMW trail riding course in September. Hopefully I'll learn more things I can apply to the Uly  | ||
| Fwiw |
1st question How full will your bags be? The bags will be full plus I'll have a tent, etc strapped on top. 2nd are you riding 2 up? This will be a solo ride. Back in the early 70s, I rode all over the east coast on a 72 Triumph Tiger. In the late 70s, I rode all over Michigan and the UP on a 75 Sportster. Haven't been on a bike since and never rode dirt/gravel. I'm looking forward to doing a major ride on my Uly...if it ever arrives! btw, thanks for all the excellent suggestions and help! This is a great board. | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Did anyone mention to take it easy on the front brake? | ||
| Gotj |
Two pre-ride training suggestions. First, learn to lay the Uly down softly at slow to medium speeds. Second, learn to pick it up without damage to your body (perhaps multiple times in a day). You probably want to start out with an unloaded bike and work up to it being fully loaded. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
As Jim_Sb said..the rake and the trail of the ULY with the short fat tire are not conducive to ride soft gravel which is some of the most treacherous stuff .. and with no off-road experience on a 500+ lbs bike you are going to have your hands full..Start learning to pick up the bike in your driveway and have good medical insurance with the air evac clause because you might need it (hope not)..the straight truth. | ||
| Growl |
Hello: I just came back from a weekend ride/campout in the Sierras and rode 2-up with 12 other guys who were riding solo on dual-sport bikes. The Uly was awesome: climbing hills through gravel, rocks and sand. I left the Dunlops at 36/38 lb.s on the first day but lowered the pressure by 4 lb.s on the second day. This was a good decision as it transformed the sand/gravel control and yet was reasonable on paved stretches. As for sand / gravel technique I kept it simple: remained seated - remained in first gear - kept it going. When sand was deep I limited turning efforts to a minimum. Other wise I took advantage of the quick turning geometry and wove around obstacles. | ||
| Jim_sb |
James, For extended off pavement riding I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to use a steering damper. Now if you're talking about well traveled dirt / gravel roads, fine. The Uly rails down those. No worries. But with some of the terrain we see out here the damper can be a real benefit. But then again we often see them on "real" dirt bikes too and they do much better than the Uly off pavement. Can't imagine it not being beneficial... Next time I will try dropping 4 lbs. psi front and rear and see if that helps. Still should provide adequate protection on embedded rocks. The problem with Death Valley is you never know what you're going to get. Ruts, rocks, embedded rocks, deep soft gravel, sand. That's why they call it an adventure I guess. I darn near got a little too much adventure. <g> FWIW - get some practice on gravel roads before your long trip. It is different. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
I think with the Uly's short rake, small fat tyre and lack of decent tread on most tyres, there would not be sufficient force in the 'feedback' through the bars to get any real benifit from a damper. A typical damper would need to be set so soft to allow the steering to move freely and 'self-adjust', that it would be useless. The amount of resistance required to avoid headshake would exceed grip, and the tyre would only slide or dive under the bike. It may feel more comfortable, but in a situation where you'd really need a damper, I think it would only confuse things. Dampers are great to catch the wheel from being deflected violently by rocks, ruts, etc. But with the Uly's geometry and tyres, anything that can deflect the wheel will still upset the bike, whether the wheel is delfected around or held straight by a damper. Dampers should be one of the last things fitted to any bike when everything else is set up perfectly, and not a solution to 'tank slapping'. With the short rake and lack of grip the Uly is very easy to muscle out of a slapper. That's only me though, a damper may work great for someone else | ||
| Fwiw |
Summary There have been some real pearls of wisdom here and I appreciate the input. Here's what I've learned and where I'll start. 1) Learn to pick it up without damage to your body. Start out with an unloaded bike and work up to it being fully loaded. I'm 6'4" and 240#, and fortunately it hasn't all gone to fat (yet). I'm not anticipating problems here. I grew up on a farm and am used to moving large heavy objects. 2) Learn to lay the Uly down softly at slow to medium speeds. (I changed the order - no need to learn to lay it down if you can't pick it up!). This one might have to wait -- although excellent advice, the idea of intentionally putting a brand new Uly down is a tough emotional decision! 3) Lower the tire pressure 4 lbs. (which implies carry a tire pump.) 4) Keep the front light rather than weight over the bars, standing, knees slightly bent and butt to the rear in real soft/rough stuff. 5) Stay relaxed and loose 6) Get some practice! I'm looking forward to #6... | ||
| Crusty |
2) Learn to lay the Uly down softly at slow to medium speeds. (I changed the order - no need to learn to lay it down if you can't pick it up!). This one might have to wait -- although excellent advice, the idea of intentionally putting a brand new Uly down is a tough emotional decision! I'd wait on that, too. Intentionally crashing a fairly new $12,000+ motorcycle would not be high on my list of priorities. Go, have a Great Adventure, then come back here and tell us all about it. Take lots of pictures. (Message edited by Crusty on July 31, 2007) | ||
| Fwiw |
Intentionally crashing a fairly new $12,000+ motorcycle would not be high on my list of priorities. Ya - but he makes a good point. There are two kinds of riders... those who have laid it down and those who will. Being prepared is smart. I think I'll take an enduro riding class someday and learn to do that with someone else's bike  | ||
| Bertotti |
Pump and patch kit and maybe extend the tool kit to more then just the stock little pack. I would also have a healthy first aid kit and a cell phone, the cell phone provided it will work there. Definitely the first aid kit in the middle of nowhere there aren't a lot of places for help. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
If you lower the tire pressure to 4 lbs and you weigh 240 lbs there is a very good chance you are going to wreck your rim. A sharp edge on a bridge abutment or something similar and you got trouble.. With a loaded bike and your weight that tire is going to be almost flat to begin with..I think you are going to compound your problems with 4 lbs of air pressure especially out in the middle of BFE... | ||
| Fwiw |
With a loaded bike and your weight that tire is going to be almost flat to begin with. I'm having a hard time with that. 2-up puts as much, if not more, weight on the bike as me plus full gear. Me 240 Gear 75 total 315 Male 180 Fem 120 (I'm being generous ) total 300 Odds are a 2-up bike will weigh more than me and gear. However, your caution is noted and I'll experiment as I train. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>I'm 6'4" and 240#, and fortunately it hasn't all gone to fat (yet).<< Yuh its only 195kg - I can lift it with one hand given a place to grip. But I'd be concentrating on keeping it upright anyway. | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
Definitely carry a pump and a puncture repair kit (with the stringy plugs and common vulcanising cement). Dropping the tyre pressure SLIGHTLY will help, slightly (as in, ~5-10psi less than what you'd run on the road). But anything more is really only a false sense of security with the Dunslops or Syncs. Our tubeless tyres don't have the sidewall flexibility and tread spacing to benefit from lower pressures like true offroad tyres. And will greatly increase the chance of a puncture or rim damage. The stiff sidewalls 'push' the tread inwards on itself, closing up the space between tread blocks. But you do get a bigger contact patch, so it's a matter of compromise. | ||
| Danger_dave |
20-25lbs was the factory team setting for the dirt roads on the FNQ ride. | ||
| Sanchez |
I did some dirt/gravel/rock riding the weekend before last (having very little previous offroad experience), and I found parking lot techniques helpful. Bumpy terrain really exacerbates the Uly's low speed surging problem because it bounces your throttle hand up and down. The solution is to keep the RPMs high and feather the clutch to modulate your speed. I also felt much better after I got comfortable enough to pick up some speed. I never got out of first gear, but the bike crossed big rocks much better with some momentum. So it's just like making a u-turn. Keep your RPMs up, feather the clutch, and don't slow down. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Pink fluffy bike, catching air on the gravel?... I think I am in lust with her! move with the bike through the corners, do NOT try and fight it. you will need to move more on dirt than you do with tarmac. get used to slowing the bike down with minimal front break. Dont get cocky and over confident. 50 on dirt is FAST, work up to it, dont drive over your ability, it isnt a race. Have Fun. Once you get on the bendy and dirty, pavement will seem dull. Best of all, no speed cop traps on the gravel back country roads.  | ||
| Horridus |
After my dump last week I would say that it cant hurt to loosen up your legs and arms pre-ride by stretching. I pulled my hamstring but saved the bike from any real damage, small scratch on the hand guard. Great info here guys, thanks. Horr | ||
| Miamiuly |
Good point Horridus Flexibility has saved me extra pain numerous times. Most recently when letting my dog run and pull me on my long skateboard. (He likes to run- I don't) Nasty road rash for a couple of weeks on right hand but no broken bones or other damage. All those childhood BMX/ MX falls come in handy when you find yourself suddenly, inexplicably flying through the air. Getting tossed around an Aikido mat really helped too, learned some great stretches there just to be able to get thrown. | ||
| Steve_a |
On soft stuff, or hard pack with marbles on top, you will tend to loose the front end, on any motorcycle. The normal street rider reaction to this is to shut the throttle, which will cause a complete front end washout and a low-side. As strange as it seems, you have to learn the dirt rider technique of giving more throttle when the front starts pushing. |
