| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron |
It did what we wanted it to do. You have to know when to stop. Or to change, as the case may be  . There are always new challenges out there. | ||
| Sarodude |
Aaron- Are you going to test 'street' configurations of the hot Blast or just LSR configurations? -Saro | ||
| Aaron |
Saro, No, streetability is pretty much out of the picture at this point. The 46hp configuration I used at Bonneville was *almost* streetable, it just needed a small muffler which would more than likely cost a couple hp on top and give a broader powerband. But now I'm running compression that requires race gas. AW | ||
| Bobby |
Hi Gang, How about 130 HP? A friend of mine said they got 130 HP out of a Buell. The thing would fly swat you if you gave it full throttle in second gear faster than you could turn the throttle back to the idle from full throttle. Fuzzy, at Shake down street in Ventura, CA is the one to talk to. (805)642-5001 I personally do not think I could handle the 130 HP fly swat. Take care, Bobby. | ||
| Blake |
Is your little girl upset at you for making her Blast a race only machine? LOL! I suppose she'll figure a way to get a new car out of Dad as compensation.  | ||
| Schemky |
M2 with an attitude: Finally got to test ride my fortified M2. This is a list of what I have done thus far: Nallin Hurricane pistons .015" over Squish set at .030" Andrews N4's Ported cylinder heads, valves back-cut I retained the Borla I have been running for over 10,000 miles as well as the Force Sidewinder. First impression is the low speed torque from idle to 3,500 rpm; it's stronger than stock. At 3,500 rpm and up, the M2 has a new personality. The bike will power wheelie in second gear effortlessly, almost violently. In third, 60 to 100 mph happens much quicker than before. Instead of the power tapering off around 5,500 to 6,000 rpm, it "zings" up to 7,000. I would have never believed a "Sportster" engine could make power like this. Nitrous is next. Plan to dyno soon. | ||
| Dynodave |
Schemky, the N4s are the SAME GRIND as the SE1/S1/X1 cams. Also you should ALWAYS dyno ANY rebuild job BEFORE you romp on it for THREE Very Important Reasons. 1) It is a Stress Test conducted in a shop where they can Fix it no problem. 2) They can sort out any carb/ignition problems that could cause an expensive failure. 3) You will KNOW exactly what your setup is putting out and it will be dialed in RIGHT. Generally you should break it in first then get it Dyno Tuned at a reputable shop, preferably one affiliated with the shop that built the motor. One other thing. The stock ignition limits at 6800 RPM so you MUST be running an aftermarket one. If not, upgrade your coils to handle the higher compression. | ||
| Schemky |
Dynodave, I concur. I build my own engines (ex-long term bracket racer), initially dial in with plug readings and dial in carb settings paying particular attention to driveability and throttle response at each carb transition circuit. Most engines are "typically" within a couple degrees of optimization on timing. You're correct on dialing it in with a dyno. I intend to break-in the top-end, then strap it on a dyno to fine tune. I like to load the rings with short, bursts of throttle for seating, which seems to work well on moly rings. Incidentally, cudos to Brian Nallin, who helped me with the combination and set-up clearances. He indicated that a true 100 RWHP Buell is for the experienced rider only and I agree. I estimate mine to be 92 - 95 RWHP and it's a real asphalt gorilla. Having second thoughts about the Nitrous now. | ||
| Aaron |
Congratulations on what sounds like a great running bike! Can't wait to see your charts. | ||
| Schemky |
Thanks Aaron, I am anxious also to dyno. | ||
| Jimidan |
Does anybody have experience with Wood Performance Carburators" "Knight" Prowler Camshafts? These unique cams are designed by NASCAR winner Bobby Woods and built by Andrews for HD style engines. They can be seen at www.woodcarbs.com. I am particularly interested in the W-8S, that has the .590 lift and only 246 duration, for my 88" with STD heads (flow 180 cfm). STD and Bobby Woods claims that these cams are the cat's behind and will add much torque down low and still have the top end. I have SEII .536" lift cams now and it is a bit soft for my tastes up to 4,500 rpms. My concern with under 500 duration is that it will be hard to start and subject to detonation, and it will not have much top end. Any cam experts out there have an opinion. | ||
| Dynodave |
Jimidan; with such a light bike and big motor the low end torque is not all that important. The consensus of opinion at Modesto and Yankee Enginuity is that the Lightning cams work very well; I have at least 10 ft-lbs from 3000 to 5500 on my 88 incher versus the SE-2; and am only down a coupla horses at 6800; in a drag race, I win hands down. 180 cfm sounds a bit optimistic; the reading was probably taken at the automotive 24 in hg as opposed to the motorcycle 10 in hg. A heavily ported 4-valve head flows about 180. | ||
| Racinswifty |
Does anybody here know about NOS setups for a fuel injected buell. Been searching for the set up. No luck finding it! Please let me know if there is such thing. Wanting easy way of getting a little power with out taking apart engine. Thanks. racinswifty | ||
| Jimidan |
I have been assured that the 180 cfm from my STD heads is in the motorcycle hg. It has big valves and a custom port job. They almost have too much flow for good velocity and torque at lower rpms. Duncan at Yankee Enginuity ran the SEII numbers in his computer program when I was looking to place them in my 88" Axtell street engine with Nallins T-storms. He said that the optimum was 161 CFM with these cams. I don't have enough cam in my STD headed beast, for sure. He recommended against me using any cams with less lift than .536". | ||
| Seatonii |
I would like to see if I could get any suggestions about cfm, flow numbers, to shoot for on my 00 X1 heads. Also what do these heads normally flow untouched. I am not interested in replacing the cams now but later I may be inclined to go just a little bigger later on but still nothing that is unstreetable. I also do not plan changing the size of the motor. I was wondering if anyone could offer a good basic CFM rating to short for without loosing a lot of low end. And at what lift reading it should this occur. Most of my knowledge base is from the car side of the industry. Dealing with bikes is a little new to me. I am familiar with flow numbers on small block chevy stuff, they seem to flow A LOT better than these heads. Also, has anyone had any experience working with internal engine coatings on these motors and if so why kind of power or heat reductions have you seen. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, DWIGHT 00 X1 race ECM, K&N, and V&H FOR NOW | ||
| Jmartz |
Seatonii: Brian Nallin used to offer coatings as part of his head work. This so called stage 3 work did not provide any improvements over uncoated units and he has since discontinued the practice. He's told me that he doesn't even polish the chambers anymore as he once used to. As to flow #'s, this is a tough one. Since you have no way to verify what they are when you get the heads home, you are just going to have to trust the porter on this one. | ||
| Seatonii |
Well, I am dealing with someone in my area that I know fairly well and he has two flow benches and I can get flow numbers before and after. DWIGHT | ||
| Racinswifty |
So ok..... no luck finding it! No nitrous for the buell??? Well I think I'll go back to my old ride my ZX-9r and put NOS on it. Grumble.... | ||
| Blake |
Swifty: You could convert to a carb and NOS it easily then right? | ||
| Tripper |
Keep looking swifty. I watched a Nitrous installation going on an S2 last week, I just can't remember the source. Edelbrock? I'll make a call and post back. | ||
| Eisanmann |
Racinswifty Try this site;www.noswizird.co.uk/bikenitrous.htm | ||
| Eisanmann |
Racinswifty Try this site;www.noswizard.co.uk/bikenitrous.htm | ||
| Blake |
Dave: Swifty has a fuellie. | ||
| Bigblock |
If I remember right, X1 and N4 are not identical. As my memory serves me, the X1 cams, although having same lift and duration as the N4, have a much wider lobe center, to allow for the E.P.A. noise and emmissions. The N4 with the tighter lobe centers will give you a quicker reving motor. If my memory serves me right. Now I haven't played with any big inch motors in Buells, but I have Cammed a few Stock Buells, my M2, a buddys m2 and a X1 and a S3, N6's, and SEII's respectively, and these bikes will smoke any M2 or X1 stock cammed bikes, with pipes, Dyno tunes, all that, in a drag race or highway chase, we have tried this numerous times, If your bike is "soft" w/ SEII cams up to 4500 rpm, there are other issues w/ your bike, whether it be carb or timing or even cam timing, I couldn't say but the 2 SEII bikes I have worked on and rode RIPPED, they weren't even vaguely soft over 3000. I did help assemble and ride a 88" sportster, but it had some HUGE redshifts, well over 600 lift and huge duration, it turned on just under 4000, it was sick, it would spin the rear AND loft the front in 3rd gear when it came on the pipe! Thats what I call fun! Good Luck all you power junkies! Ray | ||
| Aaron |
Lightning cams (from the P&A catalog): lift: .497/.497 duration: 256/256 timing: 28/48 intake, 52/24 exhaust N4's (from the Andrews web site): lift: .490/.490 duration: 256/256 timing: 30/46 intake, 52/24 exhaust So Andrews shows a slightly lower lift and a slightly more advanced intake lobe. I was told, by someone in WI, that despite these minor differences in the specs, they are actually the exact same cams, Andrews supplies their standard N4's to Buell. The lift difference can be explained by the fact that the two companies use a different rocker ratio assumption (1.65 HD, 1.63 Andrews). As far as the small intake timing difference, I don't know why they have a different opinion, but if you've degreed cams, you know that a 2 degree difference is pushing the repeatability of the measurement and you probably get that much variation from one motor to the next. Neither company specs intake lobe center or separation angle, but the lobes are symmetrical (at least that's what Andrews told me), so both figures will track the timing figures. It works out to a 100 degree ILC & 104 degree LSA for HD's numbers, 98 degree ILC & 102 degree LSA for Andrews' numbers. To me, looking at these numbers is too indirect and only tells part of the story, the timing figures are more meaningful. The SEII's numbers are: lift: .536/.536 duration: 256/266 timing: 26/50 intake, 55/30 exhaust So basically what they've done is add a little lift, retard the cam a tad, and stretched out the exhaust lobe. Dual pattern grinds like this (i.e. more exhaust lobe than intake lobe) are normally associated with crappy exhaust systems. If you notice, no really big grinds are dual-pattern at all, it's a street thing only. But, since they're only opening the exhaust just a shade earlier, I don't think they're doing it to overcome a bad exhaust system (opening earlier essentially uses more of the combustion pressure to help get the exhaust moving & reduce pumping losses). Most of the extra exhaust lobe got added onto the back end where, not coincidentally, they're opening the intake a tick later. My hunch is they did it this way, retarding the intake but retarding the exhaust even more, to add overlap without hurting valve to valve clearance (they spec identical TDC lift figures to the Lightning cams despite having more overlap). In other words, they're trying to give us a little hotter cam without requiring a lot of gymnastics to put them in. But that's just my guess. Right now someone in Iowa is getting all spun up over me using these .053 timing figures because, as we all know, these are just single data points in a complex curve. They don't tell the whole story. He's right. But it's all we've got. | ||
| Bigblock |
So, I stand corrected. The X1 cam info I read(this is from memory, so I don't remember the #s, it was the comparo I remebered)was in Battle2win,which did have some inconsities in some of their #s, they had a big chart w/ many cams, 2 were mixed up, perhaps the X1 info was bad, too. The N4 info was packed in the box w/ the cams, so I presume that was fairly accurate. However, I do know that the 883 to 1200 conversion the N4s went into(883 heads stock) runs like a raped frickin' ape! Ray | ||
| Bigblock |
And you're right about degreeing them, you can damn near show that much from cylinder to cylinder(which could well be operator error, if I'm doing it, anyways!) | ||
| Steveb |
Jmartz, Aaron or anyone else, I've been trying to follow this thread but I'm a bit unclear. What performance differences would be noticed going from a full race kit, carbed, Lightning Cam, 92 rwhp Thunderstorm engine, to SE II cams? Would the full SE II kit be a good way to go using the springs, collars, retainers, etc? I saw that Jmartz went with a different springs, etc. Are there any expected installation complications? Yea, I know YMMV! TIA, Steve B | ||
| Jmartz |
Steve: There are no installtion complications as all the parts are made by (or for) HD. The effect will be a slight loss or delay in initial power with an increase above 3500 rpm. These cams have a bit more lift, .040, and 10 degrees extra exhaust duration (timing is ever so slightly different also). Not a radical cam by any means, similar to Andrews N6's but with more lift. You might enjoy them more with head porting and more compression as this will produce more initial power than stock. | ||
| Steveb |
Jmartz, I think I've got it. The SE II's will move the power up the rpm band, leaving me a softer bottom end, and giving me more max power. The moco says: about bolt-ins: "..2500-6000 RPM." About SE II: "2000-6500 RPM." I didn't think that sounded right, and I'm glad you responded having had personal experience. Thank you, Steve B |
