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Mikej
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2001 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
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Aaron
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's why Peter's M2 makes so much power, for an M2:

excerpt from M2 parts book

That's the same part number as a set of S1 or SE-1 cams.
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Aaron
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Another little tidbit ... we all know the Euro bikes get a 2" header, but what's unique about the Japanese exhuast?

another excerpt from the M2 parts book
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Aaron
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did a little Dyno work today, too ...

1999 M2 Dyno Sheet

Who says a stock exhaust has a dip in the torque curve? I had the factory original muffler on the bike for that pull, no lie.

Mikuni HSR42 & Force Sidewinder are the only performance enhancing mods. Everything else is 100% stock: cams, ignition, exhaust, etc. The heads have never been off the bike.

AW
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd sure likt to see a pull with a high flow muffler!
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Peter
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 01:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aaron,
So!
That's interesting. That nice torque reading I get in the mid range must be due to the 2" headers then? I wonder why Grizzly's doesn't have a similar spike if he has the same cams? I think we need to talk him into a Power Commander (or a carb) to get his fuel delivery right for his setup. Do you know if the ECM on the fuellies has a similar ignition curve to the carbed bikes and just adjusts the fuel to suit, or does it constantly change the ignition as well?
What bike was on that dyno run? Your M2?
PPiA
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Airborne
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PPiA: The ECM on the fuellies Has "Independently mapped spark and fuel control. As stated in the Service Manual page 4-1, 99 X1. As for being the same advance curve as the carb bikes? I don't know, but I wouldn't think so. The five monitored sensors come into the equation to determine the spark and fuel.
1. Throttle position
2. Camshaft position
3. Engine temp
4. Air intake temp
5. O2 sensor

The ECM has a memory for recording engine performance that comes into the spark and fuel equation also.

Actually I think the memory storage is used by the govt to spy on us. (Delete the last sentence after reading this message)
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Blake
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

DougP:

What happened with the explanation for your dyno chart discrapancy? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Aaron
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PPiA: I suspect Airborne is right. Someday I'll learn about these fuelies. Maybe in the fall I'll buy one. Hope it doesn't use a Y manifold.

Blake: put it this way ... I've gone back to the stock muffler. I didn't learn what I set out to learn the other day, but I did learn that the stock muffler can be made to work just fine, very comparable to the aftermarket offerings. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I think there's a tendency to look at an exhaust system as an island, and I'm not at all sure that's valid.

AW
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Blake
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aaron: I gotta get you to tune my bike! How much does the Mikuni bring to the flatness of the torque curve? I was thinking that the Mikuni mainly benefitted throttle response and ease of rejetting. Are you also seeing a noticeable performance improvement in power?
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Dougp
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, numerous phone calls left unreturned.
Showed another perf. shop the sheets and he stated it was definately calibration. That the dyno would have NO readings if it was on the fritz. Taking it to this shop when they can "squeeze me in". They primarily do huge inch Harley clones. Bike is currently running fantastic and in no immediate need of tuning. Spending $$$'s on suspension goodies and wanting to know where and need I say, how much? Rocket's dymags are.
Will get a legitimate run recorded and posted here.

dp
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Mikej
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aaron,
Was anything done to the stock muffler internally or externally? Or was the "fix" simply jetting and timing? Or something else? This might be good info for those in more noise-sensitive locals.

Why do I have this urge to swing by Colorado twice on my trip? There's a whole lotta miles planned is why.

Enjoy St.Crois, or wherever you're going to.
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Captpete
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's broken in & here's the true tellin's: S1W
S1W dyno

Stock cam.
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Jasonl
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Whoa PETE! Thats the stock cams? Got any specs on that monster?
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Blake
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jason: Note the "84 CI Wiseco..."
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Jasonl
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Per Johnny Fever on WKRP In Cincinnati (after removal of the ever present sunglasses) - "I CAN SEE!"
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Court
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Reminiscent of the time Erik Buell....as a young racer....had a "get off"...slid on the face shield....stood up....staggering....thought he'd lost his vision.....flipped shield up......"oh, nevemind".
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Blake
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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S2no1
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Glad it noted WISECO, otherwise we'd need to send Aaron some reinforcements to help with Rocket and those everpresent bricks.

Arvel
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Captpete
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pretty interesting results. We did two or three 4th gear runs, then one through all the gears, looking for any hiccups along the way, and finally this 5th gear run. Michael (M’s Cycle Service) at that point said it was just about the prettiest graph his shop had ever seen, and he didn’t want to touch anything. All work in the shop stopped as the crew gathered around the monitor, and the machinist had the biggest grin of all. They had been predicting something in the middle 90’s.

Since I was so paranoid about blowing up another engine, they had decided to recommend the 84 ci aluminum cyl kit instead of the 88 ci iron cyl kit because boring the case for the bigger kit actually cut into the holes in the case for the cyl mounting bolts. Some one on the BBS (Blake?) recently mentioned that there were a bunch of those 88 ci cyl’s out there, but I don’t know how they are being ridden, and why take a chance for 4 more inches? Like I said, I’m paranoid.

But right now, I’m pretty happy. What really makes this thing fun to ride is the torque. Puttin’ along behind Mom & Pop @ 60 mph in top gear just begs for a passing zone. It’s pretty hard to get back in line without being on the high side of 80. Talk about a kick-in-the-pants. This is the Buell’s unique offering!

Capt. Pete

P.S. Any speculations, suggestions for stage 4 (cams)?
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Ralph
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ooops, :)

bighairyralph
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Ralph
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Redshift 585. But with way that motor looks, I wouldn't bother. You'd see more horsies, but you'd loose in the torque. You know, kind of a rob Peter to pay Paul (you wouldn't like that would you?)

bighairyralph
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Smokin84
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Captpete, I have an 84,(which is about to become an 88),and with the 585 Redshifts the peak Torque is 95ft.lb. at 4200rpm. It has power everywhere, a great choice in my opinion.
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Captpete
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 02:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Smokin84,

I'd sure like to see the dyno chart of your 84 w/ the cams you mention. Couldn't find one w/ the search utility. Have you posted it?

Capt. Pete
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Captpete
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 02:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Smokin84,

P.S. Why another 4 cubes at this point?

Capt. Pete
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Captpete
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Large fuzzy poet Ralph,

Been there & done that the first go 'round, and no, I didn't like it too much.

It's just that cams are cheap compared to what I've got in this thing so far... But I tend to agree with you... the curves are just so damned smoooooth. I'd probably be better off spending the $ on a few hours of fiddling around on the dyno.

We'll see what Smokin84's dyno chart looks like if he'll post it for us.

Capt. Pete
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Smokin84
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 09:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Captpete, I don't have a scanner, but I'll try to get a friend to post it. The reason I am going to the 88, is the 84 cylinders (AAC's) weeped oil from the drain backs through the cylinder fins (they where very porous). Millennium Technologies replaced them for me and even sent the 88's at my request.
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Torqd
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

asdyno.jpg
Well here is the dyno sheet for Smokin84. I had to cut off some desc lines for other combos to make it fit under the 50k limit... The bike really pulls hard from down low....I have an 88ci motor and I changed cams because of him...I had the 536 se cams and made 100ft.lbs.... i just recently went to the 585's....they pull better all over....they will pull your arms out of socket:-}
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Captpete
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 06:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Torqd,

Thanks for posting the Smokin84 dyno stuff. After comparing our two charts and considering where in that graph I seem to do most of my riding, I'm not so anxious to go to stage 4. (Just like you predicted, Ralph)

Capt. Pete
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Ralph
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Be careful Pete, my predictions can go either way :)

bighairyralph
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