| Author | Message | ||
     Jayb |
Hi guys, I just bought an 02 X1 with a little over 4,000 miles on her. I also own a 97 S1. The X1 feels like a complete dog compared to my S1. My S1 just has intake, and exhaust, and I drilled out the carb, and rejetted. My S1 when in any gear, will pull when I get on the gas. The X1 will not pull, until I hit maybe 5000 rpm. Then the redline is right there. Its gutless if you crack the throttle...until 5000 or so. I was under the impression that the x1 engine was going to walk all over my 97 s1. Whats wrong? I know the cams on the X1 are made for upper RPM, but come one. Somethings gotta be wrong. Is the Fuel Injection on these bikes really that crappy? Was thinking about maybe just putting the X1 engine in my S1, with a carb. Should run better I would think. Anyone have any suggestion? The X1 is super clean. Not even a scratch on it. The original owner really took good care of it, so I know its not beat. One thing that worries me is it has a forcewinder intake on it (on the X1) and a stock exhaust...stock ECM. Do you think thats my problem? I really hate to be sinking tons of money into this bike if it will never run any better. (if I were to get an exhaust and race ecm) Thanks for listening. JayB | ||
| Rosko |
sounds like mixture is messed up with the forcewinder..does it have a PC? | ||
| Jayb |
PC? Power Commander I assume? No it doesn't. Think thats the problem? | ||
| Iamike |
Jay, First of all you'll have to unhide all of your info. in your profile, we're all family here. Something doesn't sound right. That should be a pretty snappy motor. See if you can find another to ride to compare. The only real change I noticed on mine when I put the race ECM on was it didn't drop out on the highway like the stock did and it didn't hit the rev limit quite as early. If you change the pipe and intake the stock ECM can't give it enough fuel. I wonder if your Forcewinder is opening up? It sounds like it isn't getting the air it neeeds. | ||
| Jayb |
Not sure why everything was hidden in my profile. It never used to be.  All fixed back to normal now. weird. Pipe is still stock. Just has a forcewinder intake. Whats all this i read about a tps reset on the fuel injected models. What are the symptoms of that needing to be reset? Is this something that the dealer HAS to do, or can it be done in my garage? I hate paying the dealers for anything when I can do it myself. Thanks JayB | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
huh my new 2001 x1 with 1400 miles is a kick ••• beast!!! ive put 500 miles on it. I rode your s1 back in 97 as a demo and it almost killed me and this is with 10 years experience with my old 57 pan. The s1 put me in a willie with out even thinking about it causeing me to SKID the front tire. My new bike...Bought from 1st owner that used to race bikes. Unfortunatley he had a wieght problem and a wife problem. Now that bike screams every time i want it to, id race a s1 anytime  tps sensors screw up on cars too , maybe yours needs reset or replaced. BTW I have seen someone cut up the stock air box on a 2001 and said it gave them 6 more hp ,he just cut a space just left to the stock air filter about 3/4 inch to the left and hieght matched the filter, just enough so he could still run the filter ok but it looked like he made a extra support strap for it. I havent studied deep into the flow that was achieved by doing that but he said it was dynoed resulted worthwhile so i dought your force is holding you down. (Message edited by mmmi_grad on May 16, 2005) | ||
| Oldog |
JayB the most common problems relate to the sensors the e.t. sensor and the 02 sensor I have never ridden an S1 but I have dyno-ed my X1 stock you would expect to see about 83+ rwhp a modest dip in tq in the middle flat every where else stock ECM, forcewinder, and supertrapp hp gains across the band and at peak when the et went south the bike ran bad also a tps zero gives the ECM proper throttle position info so if its off that can cause a problem. The TPS requires a software tool see American Sport Bike or see your dealer, the PC is gettig scarse(sad) I have one installed I posted the charts in the KV http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=403676#POST403676 While I am not the "premier" guy on the board I hope that this helps The plugs on my bike showed the problems clearly I have a PC3 and street ecm, In hind site the race box makes better sense (Message edited by oldog on May 17, 2005) Oh BTW what some of the more "sage" owners are sharing is that the race box with a pipe and an intake is the bolt up set up that works. the numbers that I placed in the KV attest to that I have the FSM PM me if you have questions I will forward any thing I can find. (Message edited by oldog on May 17, 2005) Oh and Nice S1 (Message edited by oldog on May 17, 2005) | ||
| Chasespeed |
Jay, I bought my 99 X1 stock, rode for a little bit, had "holes" in the map in teh mid area, really noticable when cruising. I had ordered the D&D, American Sport Bike race air cleaner, and the race ecm after I bought the bike.... I put the goodies on, sans the race ecm, and took it to the dealer to t=do the TPS reset(witht he new ecm), you could tell it was running lean.. got to Southside, put the ecm on in the parking lot, the did the TPS, then I took it on the highway to set the AFV, then discovered a couple bad sensors... Anyway, now that everything has been done, this thing is a complete beast....smoked my boys Ducati 749r coming out of a light(granted, we let up at about 70 or so,60 mph road)... get the race ecm, its about 190 bucks, and well worth the money..... My 2 cents Chase | ||
| Sportsman |
Yes they are cammed up a touch, but the TPS is out of whack. If you are going to get a pipe, do that first along with a race ECM. Then take it to a dealer for a reset. You are done. It should pull from 2500 and outrun the S1 throughout the powerband anytime. You'll get spoiled not having to do anything but ride. | ||
| Odinbueller |
I know my opinion is in the minority, but I would recommend putting the stock airbox back on if everything else is stock on it. The Helmholtz effect with the stock airbox setup has always appealed to me, and once the stock muffler gets nice and worn in, it does make a great sound. Court once told me that the stock airbox bounces air & sound in much the same manner as Bose speakers, or something to that effect. I couldn't keep up with the knowledge he was conveying. | ||
| Odinbueller |
Oh, and your performance problems will more than likely be eliminated. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Really at 1500 miles the stock muffler starts to sound alot louder. Just a little louder and anyone would for sure know your sitting on a Harley at a stop light. Anyone close at this time in my case that knows anything can figure it it out plus with the vibes. | ||
| Oldog |
What Odin Said when in doubt remove the variables one at a time | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Miss Information Alert!!! Guys, The stock mufflers on late model Buell's cannot get louder!!! They have no packing inside. Only various tubes and chambers but no packing! The only way the sonic properties can change would be carbon build up. Cut one apart some time if you get a chance. You'll be suprised how much tubing is in there... | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Mine certainly got louder, must have been loaded up. Doesnt suprise me a 2001 x1 with 950 miles it ...was for sure a garage queen. | ||
| Jayb |
Dont have the stock airbox to put back on. I bought it with the forcewinder intake on it. I really can't believe the forcewinder is causing this. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet, and get a TPS reset done. Its just so sluggish when you open the throttle its pathetic. Doesn't like to start either. It seems like its only running on one cylinder till its warmed up. Thanks for the help I really appreciate it. Jay | ||
| Ivershay |
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| Ivershay |
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| Blackbelt |
You may want to look into a new muffler too.. cause you never want to change one and not the other.. You may be taking more air in, but the bike can't get the excess air out.. TPS re-set may be a great idea, they can check if you have any trouble codes too. The easiest sensors to swap out in case of problems, are the Temp sensor (right on top of the rear cylinder, dead center of the top hole, follow the black wire) and the O2 sensor on the rear header pipe. Do you get any engine light when you start it up? i mean after the Check system cycle is complete. that could be a trouble code.. and the HD dealer should let you know of this..."should" also your dealer shouldn't charge you an arm and a leg to do this.. it is a 15 minute job 20 minutes if you don't know what you're doing... so don't let them screw ya... | ||
| Buelliedan |
The stock muffler seems to cause a "dead spot" at around 3500 rpms which is right where most of us like to ride. A good muffler swap should really help your mid range punch. But you also need to get your TPS reset immediately. If it was never done that could be causing all the symptoms you describe. | ||
| Outrider |
Gosh, My X1 is superb. I followed the advise from the BWB and the X1 Files and did the gutted airbox with K&N filter, Race ECM, Vance Hines slip on and it quick and flawless. The only thing I added to that combination was a Techlusion Digital Fuel Optimizer to dial out the lean spots on a Dyno with A/F sniffer and I am one very happy camper. As I have read over the years, there is more that can be done to get an extra few ponies out of it, but that doesn't matter to me as I love the bike in the twisties and don't even consider attempting to play catch up in the straights. If I felt the need to do that, then I bought the wrong bike. LOL Additionally, dialing in the proper A/F ratio will prolong engine life, but do a baseline run first with the modifications to determine if you are running too lean (read: hot). Fortunately, the DFO's for our Tubers are cheaper and a lot less complex than the new TFI units. Wow, reading their posts I get the feeling they are heading towards a mental breakdown trying to dial them in. LOL | ||
| Oldog |
JayB. After reading your posts and some of the others some one said the magic words Trouble codes: I would like to share this with you If you have the FSM please disregard this. Jay here is the procedure the get the codes to display. Key off , run stop off Remove the seat Locate the data connector socket ,FF- LH side 01x1 The socket has 4 pins and is rectangular with a hump on 1 side Remove the weather cover With the open end of the data socket looking at you the pins are numbered from 1 to 4 going anti clockwise from the upper right HUMP 2 1 3 4 using wire or needle nose pliers, connect 1 & 4 (the 2 on the right) dont bend them, careful not to touch 2 or 3. turn on the ignition , then the run stop the check engine lamp will blink you may remove the jumper now turn the main switch off to stop code displays Deciphering The codes The ecm will blink the trouble light in 2 different ways, there is a fast blink with on and off cycles at about ½ second or so the pattern is called intermission in the FSM The next way is much slower. With an on time of about 1 second or so I had the ECM code on me a few weeks back Heres what I got and what it meant Rapid flashes about 2 seconds or so Pause light off about 2 seconds 1 flash Pause light off about 2 seconds 4 flashes Pause light off about 2 seconds Rapid flashes about 2 seconds or so Pause light off about 2 seconds 3 flashes Pause light off about 2 seconds 3 flashes repeat codes 14 and 33 ET sensor fault, Fuel Pump problem. Replaced Et sensor, and tightened Loose battery cable, bike runs good Watch the sequence several times, you can have several codes The high number codes are in the 50s and are for internal ECM faults The ECM retains info for about 50 start stop cycles the faults that I can remember. 11 intake air temp sensor 14 engine temp sensor 33 fuel pump the ecm can detect low voltage, coil problem ( each one) fuel injector problem ( each one) o2 sensor feed lost (13 I think) cam position sensor problem fuel pump problem (lost ground I think) several internal problems relating to the module it's self Its an amazing piece of equipment I hope that this helps | ||
| Rosko |
jay, same problems that i experienced on my X1 before the PC went on...I do have a comeplete stock airbox and stock muffler if you are interested in putting them back on | ||
| Jayb |
I just got done checking for trouble codes. Nothing. It just flashes real fast 10 flashes or so, then repeats. Guess I'll just have to take her to the dealer. God I hate nothing more than being at the mercy of the dealership. My bike just seems VERY sluggish when i crack the throttle. Unlike my S1, where its pretty responsive when I crack the throttle from any rpm, the X1 just makes more intake noise (from the forcewinder), but never any more power. Kind of a shame as the bike looks mint, just wish it ran that way. Thanks for the help guys! JayB | ||
| Outrider |
Jay...It will and you will be a happy camper soon. | ||
| Imeazy |
I'm not the most knowledgeable on this situation, but I have read through the KV quite a bit and few times have seen where some have changed the plugs and been very suprised. Have you tried this? I ran into this once as well on my S2T. Also as seen before... simple things first? Just my two cents... no guarantee. | ||
| Oldog |
Jay sorry to hear the ECM can't tellyou whats wrong I have to go with Imeazy its the simple stuff I'd hook up with Rosko for a test with the stock goodies and a tps reset If you have no joy there are a whole battery of things including the plugs the other wierd thing is that its soo weak down low, my bike pulls hard all over did from day one If you have the stuff I would concider doing a full mechanical starting with compression, timing, and oil pressure, and work "up" plugs, manifold seals, fuel pressure, sensors and a tps reset in stock trim I would be shocked if the force winder was causing problems. I have posted stock dyno info, a couple of pulls should not cost much you are not tuning. and may give you or the dealer some insites one last thought you could have the S1 from HELL lol Good luck JayB you will enjoy the beastie when its right.  keep us posted (no pun intended) (Message edited by ol-dog on May 21, 2005) | ||
| Jayb |
Yeah, maybe my S1 is just THAT awesome, that the X1 can't compare.  Doubt it, but who knows.  Just got back from another ride on the X1. Still sluggish. Can't get the front wheel up in first. Should a pretty much stock X1 be able to do that? Throttle response is pretty bad too. Also it doesn't seem to like to start up when cold. I have to crank it over alot and then hold the throttle open till shes warm. A restart after she is warm is a bit better, but no where near as nice as the S1. The S1 I just pull out the choke, then she first right up. i don't have to hold the throttle open at all to get her running. Maybe I am just expecting too much out of the X1. I just figured it "should" be better than my old 97 S1. I'll have to call the dealership on monday. Later Jay | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
yeah one of the reasons I spent 18 months at MMI and 8500 bucks was cause i relized that motorcycles are high tech machines that do require high tech care. So I can tell you , the x1 is a bmf. | ||
| Oldog |
JayB Mine don't wheelie in first with out some horsin around. It will carry the front wheel about 6" off of the ground when I am in it but no sky shot I may be heavier than you at 47 (230+& flabby) that could be a factor LOL I will try to describe the healthy motor to you please forgive not meaning to be a blow hard this happens quickly and is some what subjective. mine starts pulling nice around 2500 rpm just noticeable, and steady. This is not pull your arms out of the socket, at 3500 rpm the pull becomes pronounced ,, more insistant, and a creshendo is building. At about 5500 It is trying to pull your arms from the sockets things are happening quickly the pull and revs build quickly to about 6500 the pull eases off and at about 6800 the rev limiter cuts in  I dont know what the s1 is like I understand that they were well tuned also. With the s1w belting out about 101 hp at the crank ( about what the x1 does) the factory HP figures as I have it are at the crank and with out the flywheel, MY dyno figures are "corrected" RWH (Real World HP) LOL  sorry again about your problem I hope that You can get it solved  |
