| Author | Message | ||
     Thepup |
Looks like the transmission in my XB is shot again,well the output shaft bearing.This is the second time. | ||
| Nevar |
I could be wrong but I thought Lemon Laws were only for automobiles/trucks - not motorcycles. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
depending on the state, it is usually 3 major visits for the same issue, IE: on the third visit you can have the vehicle replaced under LL. Need info though, what are they saying is the cause of the failure, how many miles between the failures and what are you running for luberication in the primary? | ||
| Thepup |
Wycked,I hate the thought of doing this,but this is getting really old.I'm sure I can get it fixed under my extended warranty,but I am at the point that I don't want my bike anymore.I want a soul less Honda that I can trust. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Honda, makes great bikes. Check out the Super Hawk 996cc V twin But if I couldn't have a buell it would have to be a Ducati 749, and if the money was there a 999R. | ||
| Eurotwins |
Thepup, I don't know what state your in but here in California Lemon Law states 4 repairs for the same condition or 30 days down means repurchase or replacement. I went through it with my 03 Triumph Daytona for a transmission concern (jumps into neutral 5th-6th shift). Triumph never let it get that far and replaced the bike 2 weeks later and paid for the first 2 services and paid to swap over all my accesories. Lemon Law has real teeth here in CA.....John | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
CA is where it started. Pup, not knowing the above information is not any help to those of us who still have bikes we want to keep, its not only for us to try and figure out what could be the issue, but also so that we can be aware of the issue for our bikes. I have heard of the output shaft bearing going out a second time just after replacement because the dealer didn't replace the output shaft(original had been worn out of spec from the bad bearing), only the bearing, and then in the other case the bearing wasn't put into/taken out of the case properly and therefore it was loose, eating itself up. In both cases they were dealer issues for the follow up. I do not know the actual cause of the initial breaks but the first one was within the break in period and was given a brand new motor. The second I am not certain of, was only given the second hand information (from a dealer when discussing warranty issues). Without knowing a cause, or if the issues are in fact related, just because they effect the same part, doesn't mean they are related. Knowing could help in avoiding it in the future.(again not just for you but us as well) Honest thinking here, you are talking about an engine that has been in the hands of the public for 2.5 years, that is very different from any other on the market, it may have some operational similarities, but the stresses in the design, no matter how much you test before hand take being ironed out in the hands of the customers. Its why major manufacturers are so slow to make radical design changes, and even when you do see a radical change, its in small numbers, not the major changes you see with the XB engine. Trust me, its length is 2.5 inches SHORTER then the XL engines used in the tubers. That means alot of shifting and sorting out of fitments. So what I am getting at, is if you want a Buell, you are a guinee pig of sorts unless you wish to wait until '06 for the standard models where the running design changes can catch up to the stuff that is breaking on us that didn't break on the test tracks. | ||
| Court |
>>>>> if you want a Buell, you are a guinee pig of sorts Patently inaccurate. That may have been true of the 1964 Ford Falcon. | ||
| Nevar |
Is this problem with the XB9 or XB12? Or both? Tim Sorry, just looked at your profile and you own a yellow 03 XB9S - same as mine.... (Message edited by nevar on May 08, 2005) | ||
| Cataract2 |
Nevar, this would be the first one I've heard of. | ||
| Thepup |
Nevar,mine is not the first. | ||
| Court |
>>>mine is not the first. How many are there? Lemon laws should be treated like a loaded gun. I still recall the fellow with the very high mileage motorgoguzzguzz who fought, fought, fought and finally prevailed. His big day came and he presented his bike at an attorney's office only to find that "buy back" means "buy back for purchase price LESS mileage at the standard rate". Yes, it is assumed that if you put THOSE miles on it, it was running when you did it. He ended up watching his 1996 go down the street in a pickup as he stood there befuddled with a $2,100 check. Pup: What has Buell Customer Service told you? How were they when they replaced the first one? How long did it take the dealer to do it? Court | ||
| Anonymous |
Believe me, this is an extremely rare problem. I am certainly disappointed for you, Pup, and hope you give the dealer a chance to make it right. Current Buells have a GREAT warranty record, the best in all of Harley-Davidson. Anyone claiming these are "guinea pig" motorcycles is absolutely incorrect. I suspect the full extent of the first incident was not diagnosed, and there was something else wrong. Do not make claims that sound like there have been lots of these incidents, because it is not true. We have the field warranty facts, and the JD Powers survey results to tell us where we are. Like all other companies, we do have warranty incidents, but they are very few. Buells are absolutely world class. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
I suspect the full extent of the first incident was not diagnosed, and there was something else wrong. Good call, that's what I'd say!!! | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Current Buells have a GREAT warranty record, the best in all of Harley-Davidson. Not disputing that in any way, and we on this board hear about more breakages then the average non-board affiliated rider would so in many ways it can SEEM like a very much recurring breakage, yet in reality is very limited. We just have such a large base of participants it is an illusion that has in several cases in the recent past brought on the concept of our bikes being unreliable. Anyone claiming these are "guinea pig" motorcycles is absolutely incorrect. My appologies for using a poor choice of terms, it was an expression that several of our "beloved" dealers have thrown out at me when checking them out for future service work. It is a well known/observed/realised fact that ANY new model vehicle needs to run for a couple of years for issues that didn't show up in initial durability testing to appear. The current advances in testing and design modeling has cut down the issues greatly and limits the unexpected breakages to fewer and fewer vehicles, but they do happen. The advantage today is manufacturers run vehicles through the durability testing of their current models right alongside those of future models. This means issues that are might crop up can be broken down and examined by the test engineers to determine if the breakage is something that is going to be a rarity, or if its something that is going to need to cause a running design change. Its why we do have bean counters to help in that descision. But its not limited to Buell, it is a fact all the way across the board, every vehicle manufacturer has this to deal with on brand new models. I suspect the full extent of the first incident was not diagnosed, and there was something else wrong. I totally agree, its why I wish Pup could tell us more about what happened and what the dealer said about it. If my comments made the impression that it was a common issue again I appologise. That was not and is not my intent. I know of THREE issues, and the third doesn't count because it was an owner/operator failure and NOTHING to do with warranty or Buell or anything related to a common failure. The owner had mistakenly run the primary with no oil in it, and that was all the dealer would comment about the issue whan he told me of it. I posted the other two and again admitted that knowledge of the cause was not told to me, only the issues and the results from the issues. Do I beleive in my Buell? ABSOLUTELY! Would I be first in line for a new model with alot of design changes? DAMN SKIPPY I WOULD! why? Because I TRUST the effort, time and abuse that Buell puts into its product before it hits the street, and if I have an issue, I have confidence that if it wasn't an owner/operator error, that Buell will stand behind their product. If its an owner/operator error, I show up, ask how much to fix it or fix it myself  Again my choice of words was poor, I should have explained the above in my original post. | ||
| Thepup |
Just a little frustrated.Last time the dealer had it for 3 weeks,then 3 months later they had it for a week because the primary chain had been adjusted to tight when they fixed it the first time.Court,I haven't called Buell customer service yet,I am going to the GM of the dealer in the morning.What bothers me the most is that I use my bike as my daily transportation to work every day and i know the dealer will have it for who knows how long.There is at least one guy at work who wants a Buell,but when it gets around about my bike again,what do you think his opinion will be then.The first time it was the same bearing and they never told me what it was caused by.It has only been 8 months since the last time this happened.I change the oil every 2500 miles and the primary fluid every 5000 miles with Harley Sport Trans fluid.I hate to sound like I am whining,but to have it happen twice just drives me crazy.Once is understandable,but to have it happen again in 8 months is just crazy. | ||
| Daves |
Primary chain too tight? Hmmmmm? | ||
| Thepup |
Primary chain too tight? Hmmmmm? What does that mean Daves.I told them they were the last one in there. | ||
| Tatsu |
ThePup I can feel your pain. This is week 3 for me without my bike. My bike is my primary mode of transportation. Without my bike, it puts my wife on the bus. Lucky for us we are able to pull this off. My disappointment is not in the Buell, but I think more with the lack of options I have here in Hawaii. You see I only have one dealership I can take my Buell to. The dealer has been great so far, but they are very busy and it was hard to get my bike in earlier. What was helpful was here and you folks. I knew the problem was my stator based on the similar problems some of you were having, but I couldn't convince the dealership enough for them to pre-order one. So now I sit and wait for the part to come in. That's the thing that bothers me. If I would have had a Harley or a Japanese bike, I would have had more options and I most likely would not have been waiting on parts to come from the mainland. The only thing I need to convince them to do now is change out my rotor disk under warranty! Cause it's driving me crazy!  | ||
| Davegess |
pup sounds like a dealer problem. Tasu, how long are they saying your part will take? A down vehicle, particularly one that is prime transportation should have a part shipping from Franklin the same day it is ordered. | ||
| Thepup |
What is the opinion here?Should the dealer take care of it free,should I just fix it myself,or get an independent service center to do it and hope the extended warranty takes care of it.I know what I think,any opinions would be appreciated. | ||
| Tatsu |
Let's see, I got the bike in last Sat. They did not have the parts. Were ordered on Monday..showed back order on a Stator and Regulator and were suppose to come this Friday. No show, maybe this week? Dealer is saying maybe they can get it out next Sat. I was thinking of ordering the part from Daves, but then the dealer said they would not pay me for the part. Just hard, as I watch 2 weeks of nice weather roll by and all my friends out riding. Like a kid with the measles stuck inside watching all his friends outside playing. (Message edited by Tatsu on May 08, 2005) | ||
| Thepup |
Anyone know Buell Customer Service phone number? | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
From experience Tatsu, it honestly wouldn't matter if it had been an HD or a japanese bike, you might have gotten lucky that they actually had one on the shelf, but from my dealings with the shops there, they NEVER had parts in stock becuase they couldn't keep up with the demand. Buell Customer Service: 1-414-343-8400 Pup in case you loose it, Blake also has it posted at the top of the "For the Factory" section of the message board. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You should have seen how long it took me to get an engine mounting bolt (mysteriously sheared off) for a Yamaha I used to own. By the time they called me to say it had arrived (probably 40 days later) I had forgotten I even ordered the stupid (and grossly overpriced) thing. I had a similiar snowball problem in my Cyclone tranny. It expect it started with an overtight belt. This damaged the 5th gear assembly bearings, which then started falling apart and rusting. This caused premature wear of the 2nd gear dogs. When I pulled it apart to fix the 2nd gear dogs, I saw the terrible damage on the 5th gear drive assembly needle bearings. The output shaft showed damage as well, but I was *really* tempted to reuse it. I probably would have, but people here talked me out of it. I can easily see the dealer seeing your output shaft, and seeing light damage to it. At this point, they probably had two choices. 1) Make you wait another week for parts, order the new output shaft, tie up one of the lifts at the shop with your bike in many pieces all trying desperately to be lost, and sit on their thumbs for a week. Once the part comes in, a lot more of the transmission then has to come apart to replace that shaft. 2) Replace the damaged bearing (probably those 5th gear drive assembly needle bearings) with the parts already on the shelf, clean up the end of the output shaft as best they can, put the bike back together that afternoon, and have you back on the road that weekend. Obviously, in hindsight, 1 was the right call, but I could see 2 being an honest (though still wrong) mistake. Letting a bike out of the shop with an overly tight primary chain is rapidly approaching unforgivable though. I would rank it right up there with forgetting to put oil back in after an oil change. I am not saying I would never do business with the dealer again, but I would want a pretty good explanation of how it managed to happen, and a lot of reassurance that the root process problem had been addressed. It also does not make sense. How on earth can somebody at the shop be good enough to pull and split an XB engine (really hard), but then forget to set the primary chain tension on reassembly (really easy)? Maybe the play in the broken bearings meant the tension adjuster was pretty high in order to get the play right, and when they put it back together, it was never checked again (meaning it was chewing up those new bearings). Don't know how they managed to get the primary cover on in that case, but I could see it happening. Also, I don't know if it is the same for the XB as for the tubers, but you will destroy the main output bearing (now sitting on my desk as I type) when you pull the 5th gear drive assembly, it's the only way to get it out. Another honest mistake could be having both the old and the new on the bench and grabbing the wrong one on reinstall. Especially on a new bike, both could look the same. Just some thoughts. At least your dealer is still owning the problem, and not trying to make you go away. | ||
| Thepup |
I talked to Buell customer service ,I was told that is was not a workmanship issue.I went to the dealer and got the paperwork.they changed the mainshaft and the right side bearing.I called the dealer and was told they can get to it on the 19th of May,luckily I called another dealer and they are going to take it right in.Also looking at the paperwork the first shaft went at 13,000 miles this one at 24,000 miles.Seems to be a pretty close to a pattern.Well hopefully things will work out.Atleast I have paperwork. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Cool, glad your getting a second set of eyes to look at it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Right side bearing? Main bearing, or the needle bearings? Don't know how the mainshaft could be damaged, and not hurt the needle bearings, but they are cheap so maybe just did not get written down on the work order. | ||
| Daves |
Pup, I was just thinking aloud as to what may have caused it. Might be good that you are going to take it to a different dealer this time. I hope everything works out for you. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Who did the services between problems? Checking/setting the primary chain tension is part of every service. |
