| Author | Message | ||
     Eurotwins |
Guys, I don,t want to make this sound like a rant being I'm newer to this board but something has to be said. I expect those on this forum to be of the cutting edge type and and are probably not the culprets. I watched a firebolt CD go for $46.00 yesterday. Isn't the paper manual $58.00 at American Sportbike? And what about a carbon front fender $242.00? It seems people start bidding early and often,driving the prices up to retail. Those CD's are back on today and already has 3 bids. I bought my Triumph Daytona CD for $8.95 plus $2.99 shipping. Just my 2 cents but some Buell buyers are making people rich. I'll just take my meds now and calm down.Thanks,John | ||
| Kdan |
Go to your dealer and try to buy one of those CD manuals. And yes, the paper manuals are $58, but they look like crap in no time. I paid $36 for a CD and was happy to do it. It's all about demand and availability. The dealer doesn't come to my door with my stuff. E-Bay does. | ||
| Shawn_9r |
Euro, What manual are you looking for? Shawn Nevermind I looked at your profile. Was going to say if you needed a 03 9r manual i'll loan you mine (wink wink)  (Message edited by shawn_9r on April 28, 2005) | ||
| Midknyte |
I can sympathise, but you really shouldn't oughta complain about something that ain't really legal (those CD's) anyway (unless you already own it in print, then you can argue for the backup factor/value. May or may not win, but you'd be in a better position to argue it...). | ||
| Eurotwins |
Thanks Shawn, I don't need one now but was just making a point. I predict you'll be able to buy it on CD for about $15.00 soon...John | ||
| Scitz |
I paid $3.00 for my CD manual. The CD manual is pirated. I bought one as a backup for my paper copy. | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
Euro, I agree with you 100%. People should do a little investigation on price before they buy. I keep seeing items on Ebay that's higher than what you can purchase new items on line. For example, look at Power Commander II for X1 that sold for $261.78. You can get a brand new one for $250, and turn signals for XB for $20/pair - retails at Buell dealer is less than $12/pair. | ||
| Wardog3187 |
When it comes to buying stuff off eBay, all I have to say is - caveat emptor (let the buyer beware). | ||
| Brupska |
I was looking at those manuals in question on ebay. Are they a pirated version or a acctual cd from buell with a part number? | ||
| Buelliedan |
They are illegal pirated CDS!! PLEASE DO NOT BUY THESE CDS AS THEY ARE STEALING FROM BUELL EMPLOYEES!! | ||
| Mikej |
If they are illegal then Ebay should be able to shut them down. As long as Ebay allows then to continue then they will. I won't buy one, but I'd really like to have a legal one from the factory. Or one legally available on-line someplace, that'd be nice. | ||
| Brupska |
That is what I needed to know. I won't buy one unless I know it is legal. I have the printed manuals but would like them on cd also. | ||
| Court |
>>>If they are illegal then Ebay should be able to shut them down. Actually, e-Bay can't. But, I am doing what I can to make it economically unattractive for them to sell knock-off Buell stuff. The first thing we can do, collectively, is to not buy this stuff. If Badweb folks will subscribe to that basic tenat of personal integrity and honesty, we've just removed a large segment of the market. I make it a point to send (and would love it for anyone else who wants to) people who place bids an e-mail explaingin that the prodcut they are purchasing is MISREPRESENTED (key word in that it allows withdrawl of a bid) and then I ask their kind consideration in not undermingin the work of nice people who produce the real thing to support thier families. Court | ||
| Reepicheep |
Agreed on all counts. I bought and own the service manual, would appreciate an electronic copy (so I could keep it on the laptop to check things here at work). But I won't pay someone for a stolen version. I would also appreciate the parts manual to be interactive on the Buell site, with retail prices and an order form I can submit. Once ordered, the parts package would be forwarded to my local dealer at no risk to them, and I would would get an an email when the parts are at the local dealer. The dealer would establish a final price (various discounts they may want to offer), and if I turn out to be a deadbeat they can send the parts back to the factory without getting dinged. | ||
| Scitz |
I agree I don't think people understand that these are pirated versions. I didn't mind paying $.99 ($2.00 shipping) for the CD on eBay and save time scanning it my self as a backup to the paper version. I don't agree with paying more than that for a CD like this. I would like to see Buell add a CD version in with the paper version but then there is the problem of people just making copies of the Buell CD and sending them out. After making my purchase I left neutral feedback because I couldn't print it and some pages were missing. A couple of weeks later the seller disabled his account, I'm sure he started another one with a different name. The way they get by the piracy issue is the argument that they are just selling a CD not the data on the CD. They will also say that this is a backup to the paper copy that you already own. I’m surprised eBay doesn’t pull the auctions. My brother has a Fiero Kit car that looks like a Ferrari and when he put it on eBay the pulled it because he used the Ferrari name in the description and eBay sited trademark issues on Ferrari’s behalf. My brother contacted Ferrari and they said it wasn’t them and they didn’t care. I’m surprised eBay hasn’t done the same thing in this case. Most sellers of the CD try to appear as though they are selling a Buell licensed product. | ||
| Outrider |
Kindly excuse my ignorance, but... If one buys an illegal service manual, how is this effecting the Buell employees that are writing them? The reason I ask is those same employees have to write them for the dealers anyway and I am fairly confident that the printer is a subcontractor. So in reality all your are doing is screwing a printer out of another short run job. As Wisconsin has an abundance of low cost, high volume quality printers not to mention a plethora of paper mills, I would die laughing if the manuals were outsourced to another State, much less China like a lot of the other stuff that used to be made here and in the other North Central States. Just an opinion. Any comments? | ||
| Bomber |
interesting reading, here -- while there is no doubt that the items are misrepresented, and any person that buys a CD to avoiding spending $$ on the paper version IS depriving the motor company of potential revenue, I kinda wonder how long it'll take til there are legal, HDI part numbered CDs out there -- I mean, fer goodness sakes, the ebay activity and near constant requests for CD manuals (and parts books) seems to indicate that there is a market add to that the ridiculously low cost of reproducing the CDs (never mind the fact that the late night tv folks will sell you Bueatiful Music on Cassette for 14.95, and CD for 19.95) means that the company could make em for darned near nuthin a piece (after the admitted cost of creating and maintaining a p/n for it, stocking and dist costs) me, I'd front nuther 50 cash dollars merican for an e-version of the book (of course,it wouldn't have the handy greasey fingerprint book marks on it) several years ago, the manuals were created by a subcontractor -- that may have changed of course, but, no matter who's doin em, they do a good job, and have a larger market than is presently being adressed anyone wanna bet nother 50 that they'd sell more cd manuals than 70 buck grips? (sorry, couldn't pass it up) | ||
| Eurotwins |
The CD for the firebolt has only been on 1 day and is already past $23.00+. I look at the bidders and all have low feedback numbers possibly fake bidders. Anyway you look at it a pirated CD costs about a buck to make so this guy is going to make a killing at Buells and Harleys expense. I'm personally going to order a paper copy from daves and keep the profit among friends....John | ||
| Scitz |
There is a good deal of competition between the sellers of the pirated manuals. It may be other sellers raising the price and backing out of the sell to hurt the sellers sells. | ||
| Daves |
And you get 10% off the REAL manual from me! Badweb price is only 52.20. Call me old fashioned but I like the actual,paper,dog earred,fingerprinted type of service manual. How the heck am I going to get my computer to work in my garage or my bike to the computer room?(yes, I have a laptop but still) | ||
| Daveinm |
I'd rather get a $50 service manual all greased up than my laptop. | ||
| Buell_rider_2003 |
i would rather use the paper myself you can take it to the bathroom as reading material and when your working in the garage and things dont go as planed you can always throw it aginst the wall it works for me because things always go better after a good chucking | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Would be nice to have one on cd, where, when you are really bored, you can copy and past all you favorite procedures into a more logical order, add you own little notes and tricks, even part numbers and prefered vender/brands... Then "Print" as needed. Then again, I just write all over the greasy finger printed, edge folded, paper cliped paper manual I bought from the dealer | ||
| Outrider |
Anyway you look at it a pirated CD costs about a buck to make so this guy is going to make a killing Are you amortizing the cost of buying a manual and scanning the whole thing? LOL For some reason, I get the feeling the original Pirate did that and has sold it to others as a get rich quick scheme. In essence, the Pirate isn't selling them on Ebay. LOL Hey, I don't blame anyone for buying a legit hardcopy from their dealer. That really is the way to go, but a CD back up would be great but chances are the factory won't make one available as it would be to easy to duplicate and the piracy rate would skyrocket. As I mentioned a few days back in a different thread, I recently received a free copy of a pirated version and quite simply feel it is relatively worthless as it doesn't address much that you don't need a Scanalyzer to diagnose. On that note, why aren't y'all ratting off the folks that make the knock off Scanalyser (SP?)? That's a proprietary tool of HDI's and they won't even sell you one. Is almost like the service manual is advertising for having the dealer do your work. Other than identifying the fasteners and torque values, the rest is pretty much barnyard mechanics. Incidentally, I haven't bought a service manual in a few years and was wondering how the Price and Quality of a Buell Service Manual compares to those available from other brand bikes? Again just an opinion and you are more than welcomed to pick it apart. I posted both of them so I could better understand the situation beyond the obvious copyright and trademark violations. Incidentally, I did buy Harley's Service and Parts Manual for my Wide Glide, so be easy on the flames. | ||
| Henrik |
how the Price and Quality of a Buell Service Manual compares to those available from other brand bikes? I can only comment on Suzuki manuals, and the Buell manual is head and shoulders above the Suzuki. The Buell manual is better organized and contains more and more pertinent information. One good idea Suzuki had was to make/sell the manual as a loose page system - of course you have to buy your own binder for the loose pages, but it makes it easier to add pages of notes, page protectors for brochures etc. etc. Of course the loose page idea is somewhat hampered by the fact that Suzuki chose really poor quality paper for the manual ... even careful flipping of pages will tear the paper. I think a CD with a .pdf version of the manual with fully built search functions would be great. I'd happily spend the $$ to have both. Henrik | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
EBAY will shut down any pirated material. That is my understanding. Somebody has to let EBAY know that, however. I'm not sure that if we the public have a standing to complain. But if Buell or their publishing outfit were to complain, I'm pretty sure that EBAY will shut them down. | ||
| Court |
>>>>EBAY will shut down any pirated material. That is inaccurate. e-Bay does not have the power or legal standing to do so. Period. What e-Bay CAN (based on intellectual property law) do is to shut down an auction at the request of the person who holds the copyright, patent, trademark, namestyle. Let's just say I have had more conversations, bought more West Law books and swapped e-mails than I'd intended to the last couple weeks. It's not a huge problem for Buell, it's more of a problem for unsuspecting Buell owners. I, myownfoolself, bought what was to be a "pen and ink" drawing of an S-2. I have a weak spot for S-2's and was quite dissappointed to received a photocopy of a page, at low resolution granted, from the S-2 catalog. So we'd like to have Buell manuals on CD? Would you want it as a stand alone CD (which would likely be a tad pricey) or included with the paper manual? Let me ask you this? Would you be willing to "Register" (cough up name, address, e-mail, model and VIN) and enter a code (found in your paper manual) to download a .pdf from the Buell website? I kinda like that idea.
Talk to me boys and girls. Rather than form a militia to chase down pirates, how about we decide what WE want and set about (remember Court's "Politely, Professionally and Persistently" lecture) gittin' it. Court | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
There is a ton of copyright material for motorcycles being pirated via EBay. I like what Court is saying. It makes a lot of sense, the early Buell website was way ahead of the game in its day and the kind of thing Court proposes is a Win/Win for owners and Buell.com from what I can see. Regards Steve steve_s@ukbeg.com www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Rek |
Let me ask you this? Would you be willing to "Register" (cough up name, address, e-mail, model and VIN) and enter a code (found in your paper manual) to download a .pdf from the Buell website? yes, yes and yes. Especially the searchable databas. Wouldn't it be cool to a a "garage" laptop and a "house" laptop? Rob | ||
| Bud |
other idea, spam those F@#%kers i'm sure the original pirate didn't make a buck out off it and did it purely for the brotherhood off buellers, who find the paper version a bit hard to keep clean |
