G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » Quick Board Archives » Archive through February 08, 2005 » New MotoCzysz C1 pics « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through January 22, 2005Craigster30 01-22-05  09:49 pm
         

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As a motorcycle engineer, all I can say is that there is more wrong, stupid stuff on that bike than could be believed. It's about as close to being able to be competitive on a race track as is an OCC chopper. The guy should have stuck with architecture.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Davegess
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, but he's thinking outside the box; )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Anyone can think outside of the box. It's creating a new box that takes skill.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 01:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The rear suspension configuration looks horrible to me. The front end might have potential though. The tailpipe won't work for a superbike racer let alone a GP racing machine. The engine/tranny look to have a huge polar moment of inertia in the roll axis, the worst possible axis for high inertias.

What else?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 01:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The front brake caliper support looks like it could be problematic.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Timbo


Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 01:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Front brake caliper configuration looks very odd, like those bolts would have to take lots of stress.

Radiator plumbing that looks like its touching the exhaust header.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Timbo


Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I also agree about the rear suspension. At that angle from the pivot, it seems it would not be very effective and would have wear issues.

I will however be the first to admit I am NOT an engineer, nor do I know any of the particulars of this machine.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Timbo


Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 01:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Are the front brake disks solid?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Wyckedflesh


Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 03:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I am not so keen on those front forks Blake...they remind me of the old style twisty forks. I can see the brace going across the top of the fender, but those outer tubes look too short to keep the inner tubes from twisting alot.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gschuette


Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 05:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Lpowel02
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Davegess
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

<It's creating a new box that takes skill.>

Particularly if you want this new box to actually work as a box. Of course if all you want is an ego massage than this thing is working perfectly. ; )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P0p0k0pf
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"The engine/tranny look to have a huge polar moment of inertia in the roll axis, the worst possible axis for high inertias."

That is why the suzuki block was cut in half, with one half spun around 180 degrees. The inline four now has two counter-rotating pairs of cylinders to eliminate the moment of inertia that acts upon the roll axis.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Wyckedflesh


Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

But in practice, MotoGP engine builders in the past that tried to run seperate banks inline with the framework found handling to be affected less by putting the banks across the frame line. IIRC Suzuki ran a "Square 4" with dual counter rotating cranks in the late 80's early 90's that they ended up not only rotating the motor 90 degrees to make it transverse mounted but ALSO ended up adding 2 counterbalancer shafts on the outside of the cranks to keep the motor from ripping itself apart.

The front brake caliper looks like a Kawasaki Radial Mounted setup. I am wondering if the front disk is some exotic material which is why its solid and not ventilated.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

JC (p0p),
You are confusing gyroscopic effects with inertia. The engine/tranny inertia is unaffected by motion of internal parts no matter which direction they are moving.

They did eliminate gyroscopic effects through mutual self-cancellation.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sportsman
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The shocks do appear to be misalighned with the swingarm piviot, but I like the piviot being the output shaft. Does away with chain tension guessing and slop without a tensioner.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Charlieboy6649


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 02:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I really don't like the comments Czysz made about Buell. He's comparing apples and oranges in his Cycleworld interview. I don't like people who don't make fair comparisons. And yes, I'm partial to Buell
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P0p0k0pf
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I gotcha Blake-

It seems, however, that the inline motor would do the opposite for powertrain inertia. The roll axis pivots from a point roughly where the tire touches the ground, right? Wouldn't an inline motor place more of its mass toward the center of the bike, consequently reducing inertia? This would be in camparison to the same motor in a transverse orientation that would move mass outwards from the centerline, and also further from the pivot of the roll axis.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kenb
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well I for one wish this team success. It's nice to see an American in there to challenge the Japanese,Italian,and Malaysian manufacturers.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nedwreck


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 09:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Any old chance for CycleWorld to take a swipe at Buell will do.

Bob
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That may be true of Motorcyclist, but having followed both Cycle World and Buell for some time now, I have to disagree.

Cycle World has always had at least two people that "get" the Buell thing and are allowed to say so in print. With the last review they printed that I read (the one for the 9sx), it sounds like even the skeptics are turning around and starting to understand and communicate what the bikes are about effectively.

Maybe it's me, but it also sounds like all the moto magazines are starting to get more rational about the whole "peak horsepower" thing and keeping it in perspective.

Motorcyclist on the other hand, clearly has some sort of axe to grind, and keeps putting out ignorant hit piece after ignorant hit piece. Which is fine, as I found every other aspect of their magazine as annoying as hell anyway. Even the fonts and layout got on my nerves.

(Message edited by reepicheep on January 24, 2005)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Charlieboy6649


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Right Reep,

I was pleasantly surprised at the spread on the SX in Cycleworld. I like Cycleworld, think it's a descent rag. And while I don't like what Czysz said, I still wish him the best for the same reason that Ken said.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

José_quiñones


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Could you please quote what Mr Czysz said about Buell in Cycleworld?

In the Jan 05 article about the bike, the word Buell is not mentioned.

In the Road Racing World Article, Buell is not mentioned at all.

Is this the March 05 issue you are talking about?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 04:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>Could you please quote what Mr Czysz said about Buell in Cycleworld?

In fact, if you could do it today it would be VERY helpful.

Thanks in advance,
Court
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P0p0k0pf
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cycleworld, Mar. 2005, p.20 has a letter from Mr. Csysz responding to the Initial C1 article. He corrects some inaccuracies in the article. Primarily, he mentions the motor orientation is not to make a narrow bike, but to "reduce gyroscopic forces that are inherent in a transverse crank" because these forces "inhibit the motorcycle fom rolling over, or turning in." Furthermore, the logitudinal orientation "resists pitching (wheelies and stoppies)."

Nothing in this article refers to Buell, but many reader responses on the same page do. One reader referred to the Buell powerplant as a hindering " boat anchor of tradition". He accomplished nothing other than receiving an editorial response (suprisingly) defending Buells.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Benm2
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

I am very happy with what he managed to do with the XB's.




Yes, yes, we're all well versed in what wonderful streetbikes the XB's are. The battering ram of Buell defensiveness regarding their suitability as streetbikes is in full force, as usual.

I was asking, though, what Erik might do with those funds to build ONE RACEBIKE. I suspect that such a machine (1) exists in his mind and (2) would be more drool-inducing than this one.

The thing that was puzzling to me, though, was the use of two clutches. One for power transmission & one for slip. In theory it sounds good, one tool one job. But if you can get one tool to do two jobs, you use less parts, and less things should break. IMHO..

Ben
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Davegess
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 04:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The thought of Erik, with the goal of winning the MotoGP cahmpionship and the budget and man power to do that, is indeed a tempting fantasy. You are undoubtedly correct that he has ideas on the subject.

Anyone with a spare 200 mill they want to spend?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Smitty


Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 08:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

In the early stages the new Excelcissor Henderson had a lot of people going ga ga . Where are they now. Buell is still here even with a lot of negative press.
Buell motorebikes have people voting with their dollars buying the product.
Is the MotoCzysz C1 the new E/H?
Time will tell.
They do have Steady Eddy speaking and saying good things.

Tim
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Benm2
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

How bout Erik & Kenny Roberts Senior? Maybe Rainey, Schwantz, and Lawson as consultants too...

S**t, I'll be happy with a podium at Daytona. Go Buell!!!

Ben
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Davegess
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Kenny SR has to be in charge, anyway the guy to have today is Rossi along with his crew chief. Those two know how to make a bike work.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

X1tx


Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rossi and Burgess together could probably get competitive lap times with a Rupp........
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration