| Author | Message | ||
     Schleppy |
Just bought a 2006 XB12ss. It has run fine for the past 100 or so miles. Earlier I go to turn it on and it's idling really rough, fan is cycling oddly, and the check engine light comes on. I pull the code with ECMspy and it's code 14 (engine temperature sensor). ECMspy also said it was a grounding issue? Odd. I pull everything apart to look it all over. I also took off the front "windshield" to look at the wires behind there. All seemed well. All the grounds in the tail section look solid, and the big ground on the rear cylinder head looks great. I checked on the engine temp sensor wire. It was rubbing in a couple spots, but not so much that it wore through (it only wore through that outer shielding, not the rubber wire coating). I rerouted it a bit and buttoned everything back up. When I turned the key (but didn't turn the engine on), everything seemed fine. As soon as I moved the bars a bit to turn on the bike, the fan kicked on. WTF? I then found if I move the bars back and forth, the fan turns on/off randomly. If I leave the bars dead straight, everything is good. Clearly there is something grounding out near the steering stem and activating fan. I just have no idea where to look on the bars. I don't see any obvious rubbing. Any ideas? Thanks all! | ||
| Froggy |
The fan is controlled by the ECM switching the ground for it off/on. It is a fairly common issue for the 06 Uly and SS to break wires in the main harness in the steering head area. You need to ripit open and repair any damaged wires, also recommend to install the 07 wire guide. | ||
| Schleppy |
Do you have a photo or part number for that wire guide?. My bike appears to have a nice plastic guide that routes the wire bundle behind the lights into the frame. | ||
| Schleppy |
Any idea which wire colors I should be looking at in the bundle under the windscreen? I have all the tape off, and so far I don't see any obvious problems. I also started to feel for internally broken wires, nothing yet. | ||
| Teeps |
SchleppyPosted on Sunday, July 28, 2013 Do you have a photo or part number for that wire guide?. Below was pasted from this thread: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/280093.html?1179983549 Windrider Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 In '07 Buell changed the plastic piece that routes the cable bundle around the frame. The new bit is PN # Y1000.2AK and it will cost you all of $3.15. HIGHLY recommended to avoid cable bundle damage and give you full left lock turning ability. It is a bit of a pain to install unless you have the left fork tube removed but it I did it in about 30 minutes without removing for fork leg. | ||
| Schleppy |
Thanks Teeps! I'll order that if I can ever figure out which wire in the loom is broken. Does anyone have a list of ground wires that are behind the windscreen on a 06 XB12ss? I don't have the typical grounding point right behind the headlamp. Once the fan starts running (bike off mind you), if I push the main bundle near the steering stem, the fan will stop. I can't consistently get it to cycle via any one wire though. Since the fan is a switched ground, it has to be a ground wire, right? | ||
| Reepicheep |
When I had one of those wires break, I spent a lot of time studying the schematic before touching anything and knew it was one of two wires. When I got it apart, I easily found the break by feel (copper broken but insulation good) on one of the wires I expected. And another "about to break" on another unrelated wire. So you can logic it out if you want (I did), but once you get in there it will probably be easy to find by just feeling the wires. | ||
| Schleppy |
That's the thing, I've stared at the schematic and the wires I narrowed it down to feel totally fine. I'm going to print out a larger version of the schematic and trace it with a highlighter. Maybe that will help me... | ||
| Schleppy |
Update to fan-gate. Had a master mechanic (30+ years) friend come by and run through the whole thing with me, wiring diagrams in hand. We peeled the harness back all the way to the idle control knob. We checked every wire by hand, didn't feel anything out of the ordinary, no breaks, bends, etc. Tugging on the wires didn't reveal any spots that there was an internal break. We also tested every single wire (with a meter) related to the fan, ignition, signals, horn, etc. Anything that could relate to the fan via power or ground. We tested the fuses, relays, relay paths, etc. Everything checked out. Even still, if the ignition was on, the fan would sometimes come on, and pushing on the loom would cause it to start/stop. After playing with the wires for a while, the fan would no longer come on at all from touching the wires. It seemed as if we had fully disconnected whatever wire was the issue from moving wires around. Nope! I could still run the fan test in ECMspy and turn on the fan that way. We also put power right on the fan it would spool right up, no problem. I started to button the bike back up, and ONE last time when I moved the bars a bit the fan fired up. WTF. I ended up turning the bike on and letting it idle until hot. Fan turned on right when it should, and ran when I turned the engine off. All normal. And touching wires while it was running did nothing, moving the bar also did nothing. There are no check engine lights, the bike idles fine, everything seems normal (except for that one bar move that trigger the fan). I am going to button the loom back up and start riding the bike again. If anyone has any other suggestions I'd appreciate it. I'm totally out of ideas. Thanks all! | ||
| Brumbear |
stop turning the friggen handlebars it means your GOING TO DAMN SLOW LEAN DAMN YOU LEAN  Glad you got it sorted | ||
| Cataract2 |
Crazy idea, but I wonder if you might have had an induced current being created in the wires. With this happening it could have been creating a current on the fan wire making it turn on. Moving the wires around broke that and stopped it from happening. Wonder if the VR is doing it's job and making a clean DC signal. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only other thing I can think of at this point is some dim memory of some crazyness where somebody had a bad ground, and the "new" path to ground was through the clutch cable. That would be another way bar movement could be related to the fan but not the wire bundle. A long shot for sure... | ||
| Schleppy |
Brumbear: I know, I just need to stop turning! Cataract: It's possible (and I have an upgraded VR waiting to go in), but my 77 connector was pristine (and I put some dielectric grease in it), and my bike pumps out the correct voltage at idle, revving, etc. Reepicheep: How could I begin to test that? So far as I noticed, the clutch cable looks AOK. Should I check the whole thing again for any bare sections? We tested the clutch wires and they were AOK. | ||
| Schleppy |
Went for a nice long ride tonight. Not a single hiccup. I have no idea what happened before, but it appears to be "gone" for now. I completely re-wrapped and routed the main wiring bundle. It has a ton more space to move around with the bars now, and doesn't bind at all. I'm going to inspect the bundle again in a few weeks or so and see if I'm getting any rubbing. Here's to hoping that was the last electrical issue... | ||
| Schleppy |
Fan issue is back (randomly), and the bike is having a lot of trouble idling when cold. I reset the TPS again, adjusted the idle a bit lower (950-1050) since my bike was having the 2k RPM rev "stuck" issue. I also cleaned the throttle body and throttle plate too. I'm at my wits end with the fan issue. I have a new engine temp sensor coming in the mail (since the code that is thrown is a code 14), but I have my doubts that is really the problem. The fact that a physical touch to the bars, or parts of the wiring loom causes the fan to come on/off makes me think it's a short to ground. I've looked over every wire I can and I don't see any problems, nor do I feel an internally broken wire. I'm all for fixing things myself, but I'm at the 12+ hour mark of time invested in this. I wish there was a local Buell shop that I could drop the bike off with. I've almost had it with this thing. | ||
| Teeps |
Here's an option: The fan is hot at all times on the Y/BN wire. The ECM grounds the BK/O wire. (black/orange? for the life of me I can't find the color chart in the manual today...) Isolate the BK/O wire from the fan and ECM, then run a new wire. While not finding the fault; this should treat the symptom. | ||
| Sifo |
I haven't looked at a wiring diagram to see if this makes sense, but if there are wires up front that deal with the temp sensor in any way, they could be suspect. The ECM thinking the bike is hot because the temp data is corrupt would cause the fan to turn on. Can you replicate the problem with ECMSpy running and see what the temp data says? If it spikes up when the fan kicks on, that would be the problem. If not, then it's something else. | ||
| Schleppy |
Teeps: So you are saying to run an entirely new wire from the ECM to the ground (bk/o)? Sifo: We checked every single wire that could possibly relate to the ECM/Fan that could ground out up behind the headlight. All wires checked out and tested fine. | ||
| Sifo |
All wires checked out and tested fine. And yet, the problem persists. Not wanting to argue the point, but the problem was missed. Just suggesting that if you can make it happen with ECMspy hooked up you might narrow the scope of possibilities. or don't | ||
| Teeps |
Schleppy Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2013 Teeps: So you are saying to run an entirely new wire from the ECM to the ground (bk/o)? No, the "patch wire" will connect the fan to the ECM. P6 @ gray ECM connector. The bk/o wire connects to the ECM and to the fan. The other fan terminal is connected to the battery, via an unswitched circuit. All that is needed for the fan to run at any time is a short to ground on the bk/o wire. Without reviewing the entire thread; was Al's (owner of American Sport Bike) first rule of electrical troubleshooting followed? All problems are ground related until proven otherwise. I.E. all normal system ground points including the battery ground strap. | ||
| Schleppy |
Sifo: No, you're right. I'll hook up ECMSpy again see if I can get the fan to light off with it hooked up. Maybe it will show one of the sensors being off. I'm still banking on this being a really odd problem with the engine temp wire. Teeps: I totally agree that this is a grounding issue (or perhaps something really odd with the temperature sensor + ground). The patch wire seems like the next best plan. | ||
| Schleppy |
Wanted to post a mini update. The cooling fan has been behaving (a bit). Once the bike was up to temp yesterday (during a ride) I noticed that pulling the clutch lever in and releasing it impacted the cooling fan when moving around a parking lot. Time to start tracing any grounds in/around the clutch cable area? | ||
| Greg_e |
Check main engine ground on the upper tie bar, or run a new ground between engine and battery ground point just to be safe. Also check the motor mount for that tie bar and make sure it has a good connection to the heads. | ||
| Akbuell |
Re the clutch cable: If I understand what happens, excess electrical energy from the system gets shunted from the voltage regulator to the engine (ie ground). If the ground path from the engine to the frame (and on to the neg battery terminal)is compromised, the energy will find a ground, in many cases through the clutch cable. The cable does get hot when used as a ground strap. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Schleppy |
That makes perfect sense, thanks Dave! So that really just reinforces the "there is a broken ground somewhere" theory. I'm really hoping the engine sensor is the reason for this wonkiness. | ||
| Livers |
Greg is right. Check the ground on the tie bar. The clutch cable is the secondary path. | ||
| Greg_e |
A secondary cable across the rear tie bar back near the rear motor mount might not be a bad idea, but I can't remember what part of the engine this bar attaches to. There is also the front tie bar up near the oil cooler, you might be able to strap across . | ||
| Schleppy |
I checked the tie bar ground a few times, the bolts are tight and none of the metal is frayed on the strap. I will take another look at the bolts connecting the motor mounts to the frame/engine. Thanks all! | ||
| Schleppy |
Another update: I bought a new engine temp sensor from American Sportbike, and installed it a couple days ago. So far the odd fan behavior has completely disappeared. Every time I turn the key the bikes behave normally, and the fan is 100% normal. The bike still idles a little rough when it's ice cold, but it no longer sputters out. I'm not going to call this "solved" yet, but it really seems like the engine temp sensor was the issue. I'll update again later on. | ||
| Schleppy |
The bike has been running fine for a while now. Tonight I went out, turned the key, fan came on. Ugggghhhh. Sure enough the fan would sporadically come on/off when the bike was off (cold), key on. When I tried to start the bike it would have a really tough time idling, then die. I had to restart the bike three times to get it to idle long enough to warm up. Once the bike was warm, it ran totally fine. I'm completely out of ideas on this one. The only difference between today and other days when I started the bike was that it had a full fuel tank, and I pushed it up my driveway before starting it (lots of pushing on the bars). That and the fact that pulling the clutch lever in still makes me think something is going on in the handlebar/headlight area. At this point I'm pretty sick of dealing with this, and there are zero local Buell shops/experts I could bring this to. I'm at the point where I want to try and sell it or trade it. It's a shame, because the bike is an absolute joy after it warms up and I go for a ride. Especially with the fresh tires and brakes I put on it. |
