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Trojan
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 06:32 am: | 
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True but for a guy like Herrin getting paid a very nice salary to race at a very high level on top equipment makes forking over 100,000 big ones to get a ride in a support series would be hard to justify.
Herrin is a true talent and one of the guys that would benefit from more aggressive management and marketing to get onto the world stage. As Court so rightly says, motorcycle racers are predominantly bothered about racing so are not the greatest marketers around.
However Herrin has backing from Monster Energy so his management really should be showing his CV around the Moto2/WSB venues and teams to try and get a ride at least supported by Monster .
I find it a real shame that since DMG took over AMA there have effectively been no 'new boys' from the US in world lever racing. PJ Jacobsen was supposed to race in WSS but couldn't get a budget together and the other talented youngsters such as Cameron Baubier and JD Beach seem to be stuck in the AMA merry go round rather than trying to get a world level ride.
Unfortunately at the moment that would probably mean moving to Spain and racing in their CEV series in order to get noticed (as Jacobsen did a few years ago but failed to capitalise on it), or paying for a WSS ride. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 09:58 am: |
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I have to think that they are getting paid enough in the AMA series to make Europe unattractive. Sorta like a talented young car racer, they can make money now in the Nationwide series and have a pretty good change of moving up to the top series and the chance for a very nice pay day or they can try to buy a ride in Europe and face the very real possibility of never getting paid to race.
I think there is a very real difference between the USA and the rest of the world in this regard. the vast majority of our racers, both bike and car, come up through the ranks of short tracks where the bills must be paid and sponsors only pay a part. You need to win money in order to keep racing. A few years of eating macaroni and cheese so you can afford tires makes making not spending money a priority. Many of these folks can't "invest" in a paid ride; thye have nothing to invest. |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 10:43 am: |
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+1 Dave, as evidenced in the heartland where both car and bike dirt track racers pay their own way for a while until sponsors come along and by then they have a pretty good racing experience and record to go on to "the big time" racing. Some of our greatest racers have started this way on dirt tracks in motocross, flat track, stock cars and even go carts. You know what Geoff May does when he has time to spend at home in Georgia? Plays on a bike in the dirt, of course.
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Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 06:03 am: |
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I have to think that they are getting paid enough in the AMA series to make Europe unattractive.
Then you would have to question their ambition to be a world champion surely?
There are racers who are happy to stay in domestic racing for their entire career and be a well paid 'big fish' in their respective ponds, but I would have thought that if you ask any of the young up and coming AMA racers wherer they would like to be in 5 years time the majority would reply MotoGP or WSB rather than AMA Superbike. The question now is 'How do they get there?' and under curent DMG management there seems to be little or no structure to allow young riders tomake that transition without outside financial assistance or generous sponsors/parents.
Remember Casey Stoners parents had to sell everything and move to Europe in order to get their boy a good start in racing, so sometimes sacrifice pays off. If it doesn't then they can always move back and still be at the front in AMA as Jason De Salvo has shown.
Maybe the UK and US organising bodies could take a look at the Spanish and Italian system of bringing through young talent and actually run a AMA/ACU funded team in Moto3/Moto2 in order to boost young riders profile in GP racing? Romano Fenati is currently 4th in the Moto3 series riding an bike funded by the Italian Federation. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 08:14 am: |
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Then you would have to question their ambition to be a world champion surely?
Maybe the world champion should question his ambition to be an American champion?
It happened in motocross; there's a very real possibility that it could happen in road racing.
Moto GP is trying to kill itself off. When the two dominant series are WSBK and AMA, then there might not be as much prestige in being a poor World Champion rather than a well paid AMA Champion. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 10:05 am: |
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Maybe the world champion should question his ambition to be an American champion?
I don't think that is going to happen any time sooner than Rossi or Stoner wanting to be BSB or German IDM Superbike champion. They tend to gravitate downwards form world level to national level, not the other way round.
When the two dominant series are WSBK and AMA
WSB may be dominant or more popular in terms of racing for spectators, but it certainly isn't viewed as presitigious when manufacturers or teams are concerned. MotoGP has always been the zenith of motorcycle sport and I don't see anything reducing that despite small grids, lack of factory bikes and other current problems.
AMA racing unfortunately lost a lot of international prestige when DMG took over, and although things have improved they are still a long way from being classed as a 'dominant' championship as far as factories are concerned. BSB has suffered a similar loss of prestige since diverting from the WSB rulebook. I can't see that improving any time soon unless they come up with a rules package that can be applied right across WSB/AMA/BSB etc so that it allows national riders and teams to get an affordable and realistic chance at world level, even if only as wild cards at home races.
Until then the gulf between national and worl chanmpionships will only get wider. |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 12:38 pm: |
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Agreed on some points Trojan but, I think although MotoGP IS the most prestigious for being a "world" venue, AMA and WSB has more viewers between at the track spectators and TV coverage. AND I think we are all seeing the best racing in those two venues also. Just my opinion though. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 01:14 pm: |
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I think DMG is doing the right thing. The racing show they put on is very much better than it was in the pre-DMG days. Fans are starting to come back and TV viewership is getting better.
Hayes on that Yamaha is getting a bit much but I suspect that will change at Barber. All the other classes are hard fought and a very good show.
At this point DMG is going to do nothing to encourage young stars to move overseas; they want them to move up the ladder here and attract their fans to AMA events.
If we can improve MC racing's profile in the US; maybe get higher than Roller Derby or Rodeo, then we can talk about sending talent overseas. Right now it is all about survival, getting the racing we have up to a point where it is profitable enough that the promoters want to spend some money on it. It is off the critical list but a long way from healthy. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 01:18 pm: |
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spectator attendance at RA though was way down considering how nice it was Saturday. The rain did come in but it left as quick. |
Svh
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 01:53 pm: |
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It did seem that spectators were slightly down from last year on Saturday but Sunday it seemed the crowd was larger than recent years. Wish they released attendance to know for sure. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 01:56 pm: |
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Yeah at 10:15 they were letting people in for free on Sunday
(Message edited by bads1 on June 13, 2012) |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 02:23 pm: |
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Still a long way to go to keep MC RR alive in the US. |
Xb1125r
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:03 pm: |
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"MotoGP has always been the zenith of motorcycle sport and I don't see anything reducing that despite small grids, lack of factory bikes and other current problems."
Wow Zenith is so old and outdated they don't even bring it to the US anymore.
Eversince they got busted for selling US submarine technology to the Russians. |
Xb1125r
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:06 pm: |
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AMA is gotten way better, so much in fact that I dont even watch motog GP anymore.
the only bad thing in AMA. is that Hayes bike is too good or his bike and its taking the thrill of a race where they are fighting to the last lap.
seems the race really start after 2nd place! |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:52 pm: |
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Actually the R1 is still a very fresh motorcycle and they have had 3 years into developing and Hayes is doing a very good job. The GSXR is very long in the teeth. Pretty much very little in changes since 2005 so the bike is due for a big change. Now these are factory bikes. If BMW stepped in as a factory..... Kawasaki spent more money with Attack.... KTM is doing not so bad the first year and well EBR is raising alot of brows and quickly. So actually what I'm saying is Graves has had a couple good years of developing there new engine and chassis. The rest have to catch up a bit. And they will. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 08:04 pm: |
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Colin Edwards, Nicky Hayden, Ben Spies, even Ben Bostrom (six WSBK wins) all performed admirably on the world stage.
The idea that a leading AMA competitor needs to go to Spain in order to kick off entry into a "World" championship series is tough to take seriously.
WSBK is not much more than a Euro series. Calling it a "World" championship is nothing but marketing by FIM. Not a single race in S. America and only two in N. America? Was it five last year in Spain & Portugal? Please. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 09:02 pm: |
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But they will be in India next year! It is pretty much a world series, not quite the level of Moto GP or F1 but still a World Championship. F1 is far and away the most international but I think WSBK can be called World.
As far as Americans going to these series; we have had our share, I rather doubt we would have done much better if all our good young guys had gone to 125 series in Spain. We might have had more backmarkers than we do now but more guys up front? Not sure about that.
I still think it is a hard sell to expect an American kid to invest that kind of money in a very iffy deal. I don't know anyone shoe could afford to quit a nice job and move to Europe so the kid could try to race and I live in a very affluent area. Dropping a few hundred thousand on that and then trying to get you life back together after the kid doesn't get the multi million dollar deal, how does one do that? You hvae to be pretty well set financially to do that. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 09:05 pm: |
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It was neat, with attendance off at Road America, to see what happened with the EBR Team.
Long after the lines had faded at all the other pits on the fan walk there were several hundred folks, literally from pit wall to pit wall, lined up waiting for Geoff and Danny.
As one person said . . . there have never been do many Buell fans at Road America as there were this year.
It was nearly unbelievable. |
Buellhusker
| | Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 12:23 am: |
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What is the difference in bike rules / specifications between World Super Bike and AMA Super Bike? |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 06:03 am: |
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WSBK is not much more than a Euro series. Calling it a "World" championship is nothing but marketing by FIM. Not a single race in S. America and only two in N. America? Was it five last year in Spain & Portugal? Please.
Both WSB and MotoGP have always been world championships, but they have hosted rounds where the biggest markets and sponsors are to be found. In previous years this was Europe and Spain in particular, but they are now migrating en masse to Asia with new races in India and Moscow next year with more to follow.
MotoGP will race in Argentina next year and I'm sure will follow up with a round in India too.
The US (or any other host country) can't complain it has fewer rounds when attendances are poor at the ones it does host unfortunately. Portugal had to literally give away tickets at this years WSB round in order to fill the circuit and will no longer host a round from 2013.
The races follow the market.....
The idea that a leading AMA competitor needs to go to Spain in order to kick off entry into a "World" championship series is tough to take seriously.
Tough as it may seem, that is the truth of it. MotoGP teams look to bring talent up from Moto2 and Moto3, and the established route into those classes is firmly rooted in the Spanish CEV series whether we like it or not. Just look at how many Spanish riders are in all 3 classes right now!
A whole host of Spanish riders have made their way into GP racing through this method, as have lots of 'foreigners' including Casey Stoner, Bradley Smith, Scott Redding and many more. Until we can find a way to challenge this method of entry into MotoGP then the majority of riders will come up this way. WSB is slightly different in that BSB is still a good and recognised route into that series, but even they are looking to steal more riders from GP's than from national series' now.
Citing the exceptions such as Spies and Hayden in recent years doesn't change the facts unfortunately  Bostrom and Edwards were in another era and can't really be cited when talking about modern routes into WSB/GP racing.
I don't know anyone shoe could afford to quit a nice job and move to Europe so the kid could try to race
Plenty have, from both the US and Australia in the past. It depend son what you want from your racing I suppose. |
Xb1125r
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 01:44 pm: |
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you can't blame portugal for not following the sport.
their economy is not far from greece.
they dont have any portugueese riders to cheer for.
they don't manufacture any bikes!
surprised they hospted this long. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 05:19 am: |
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you can't blame portugal for not following the sport.
their economy is not far from greece.
they dont have any portugueese riders to cheer for.
The Portugese GP has survived for this long because it is next door to Spain, had good sponsorship until recently and gets (got) a huge influx of Spanish fans at every GP. Unfortunately the track is a bit far off the beaten track for easy access for everyone else and too near the ocean for guaranteed good weather (which doesn't seem to bother Philip Island though!). Add the fact that the track needs a lot of work to update and modernise it and the dire state of the Portugese economy and the writing has been on the wall for some years.
There is also the commercial pressure to hold more races in the far east, despite the fact that none of the candidate countries have any teams, riders or manufactueres involved! India and Asia are seen as huge growth markets for Honda and Yamaha, and are the new breeding ground for potential sponsors, so the circus will follow where the money is as always.
By the way, Portugal does have a very good young rider in Miguel Olivera, who won the Spanish 125 championship before going to Moto3  |
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