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Aaron
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 09:48 pm: | 
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We spun it 7500rpm because that's what the stock rev limiter is. This thing has the stock ECM still.
From the point of view of piston speed, sure, it can handle more, and it's got the breathing to handle more as evidenced by the fact that it hasn't nosed over yet, and we can certainly make the valvetrain take it, in fact, the parts that are in it would probably support 8,000 rpm and we could certainly fit parts that raise that number if we wanted. I'd be a little concerned about the connecting rods at that rpm, although I hear these rods are better than the previous rods. They sure look tiny though. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 11:31 am: |
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Thunderstorm pistons won't fit in there will they. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 10:41 pm: |
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Not as delivered, but we can certainly cut the XB bathtub chamber into a pair of 15 degree squish bands. We do it all the time. I just did mine 30 degrees in fact. Directs the fuel toward the flame front better. |
Hoser
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 01:02 am: |
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Hey Aaron :
Do you fellas do that on your fancy new mill or is it done with a face plate on the lathe ?? ,
like this ( my home set up )
The way we do it at work is with a Trock plate . |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 08:52 am: |
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Yeah, we have one of those Trock plates for our lathe, too, but since we got this CNC machine up and running we haven't used it. The CNC machine does it in a fraction of the time and does a much nicer job. We can even do 2-angle stuff, for example we did a race motor recently that used a funky race piston that had a 15 degree angle followed by a 55 degree angle. We just bolted both heads down to the fixture, downloaded the program, hit the button and walked away. The machine carved it out perfectly in a couple minutes. We faced the decks at the same time. It's really slick.
Now I'm teaching it to bore cylinders. You guys need an extra Trock plate or a boring machine? This CNC machine is replacing some of the stuff we have. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 01:59 pm: |
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I found this interesting, thought y'all might also. Both are XB9's with 1200 kits. Red has stock cams and throttle body, blue has Red Shift 585 cams and a bored throttle body. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 04:24 pm: |
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Y'all ought to ask Wes and Pammy to whip up a pipe(s) for that thing, a Nallin-Rama cooperative effort. 
Next question... Is it possible to bore and plate stock cylinders so you can run in production class at Bonne? ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 06:23 pm: |
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Sure, but you can't bore'em very far and stay legal in production. |
Hoser
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:15 am: |
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Aaron:
Your CNC machine is certainly a beauty but those tools you say are no longer needed may come in handy down the road , so hang on to them.
If you absolutly must part with them I may be able to assist you.
Oh ya , ....... You fellas sure build some badass bikes , keep up the good work. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 01:07 pm: |
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Blake,rulbook is very cryptic on engine size.Under general requirements 7.B.13 In classes other than Production ,it is permitted to increase cylinder bore diameter .020 inch beyond that which provides maximum displacement for the class.
Then under Engine classes 7.J.1 OEM engine displacement determines the displacement class for competition.Displacement may not be increased beyond that class limit.
Clear now,right!!!!!!!Don't ask me????Call or e-mail motorcycle tech guy. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 01:18 pm: |
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It's kinda weird. If you're within .020 overbore of the class displacement limit, you actually have the choice of running either class. But you're stuck there with whichever you first declare when you register the bike and get your log book. To move that same bike into the other class, you have to move the displacement out of the .020 gray zone and get a new log book. At least that's how it was explained to me at the SCTA event last October.
But, like you said, the .020 overbore allowance doesn't apply to production. As I understand it, the XL team had to resleeve the cylinders on their XR1000, even a .005 overbore would push it above 1000cc and they couldn't find new cylinders. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 06:39 pm: |
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1996 Buell S2 owned by Mark Lewis
NRHS Stage 2 Thunderstorm heads
NRHS 88" kit
Screaming Eagle .536 lift cams
Stock S1W header with V&H slip-on
This is a pretty conservative 88incher, with mild cams for that much motor and a stockish exhaust to boot. Still makes good torque and power, though. Should be a good all-around bike.
Mark lives in the Jersey Channel Islands which I guess is between England and France. NRHS procured this bike for him, built the motor, and we're shipping it over to him.
(JB2 ... what do you think?) |
Mark_in_ireland
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 01:21 pm: |
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and has a 40mph max speed limit, I think....it might even be lower...
There is an Island-wide speed limit of 40mph. In addition, there are 10, 20 and 30mph restrictions in many built up areas
110rwhp....40mph limit |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 04:30 pm: |
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I posted my dyno sheet to the wrong thread---oh well it was getting late.Check it out on Classic Buell thread.(Or Blake can move it for me-hint,hint)I am at work for next 72 hrs so no can do over. |
Hoser
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 08:11 pm: |
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Did a couple of pulls on the dyno today...........
I was in a hurry so I could escape before the hundred or so bikes got pushed back inside , blocking my escape so no tuning took place.
What has been done to it:
Thunderstorm conversion
Ported heads
Screamin Eagle .536" cams
Stock carb
Pro series 2.5" exhaust
Stock ignition
Sorry for the quality of the picture , I emailed it home as a .bmp and tweaked it a bit with poor results , after I get a chance to do some tuning I'll bring home the Buell/Winpep file to use on the @ home version of winpep .
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Hoser
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 08:15 pm: |
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Forgot to mention .................
It's a 96 S2T |
Henrik
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:33 pm: |
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Hoser; that's a great looking power and torque curve. I'm sure you enjoy it.
Henrik |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 11:49 pm: |
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Hoser,
How would I go about getting a copy of the @ home version of WinPEP? |
Hoser
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 12:48 am: |
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Blake:
Dynojet has a 60 day trial / demo version but it's only good for 60 days , or you could find a friendly dyno owner and borrow his disc to load on your computer ( may cost a bottle o whiskey ).
I loaded the one from work so I can compare and share data at home.
Henrik:
I'm lovin it , it wheelies in fourth and it's 3500' above sea level here. The 97.9 hp above is corrected to sea level. It's no surprise though I've built several engines just like it ,very repeatable also a reliable and quiet engine , have heard some "hot rodded" engines that are quite noisy. Gotta fix the air / fuel monitor so I can finish the tuning ,it smelled "fat" today ,
the tubing which gets slipped into the exhaust pipe was cracked and there wasn't enough time to repair it at the end of the day. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 08:17 am: |
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Great result Jeff! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 09:26 am: |
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Hoser,
Thats great! Who ported the heads?
Hoser or anyone else... Are those .536 cams the normal (new) screaming eagle high contact ratio cams? I seem to recall them selling from Harley for $250 or so a set, which ain't bad.
I am looking at what looks like a fantastic dyno result for "just" a head port and cam upgrade, and a fantastic wide torque curve for a hot-rodded bike.
Or am I missing something? If I am understanding correctly, somebody could take a 2000 cyclone, port the heads, replace the cams, toss on a supertrapp and a forcewinder, and pick up like 15 or 20 horses? That sounds too good to be true...
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Hoser
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 07:44 pm: |
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Reep:
Who ported the heads ?? - me ( see profile ).
.536" cams , pre high contact ratio , oh by the way my oil pump gear was VERY worn and replaced at this maintenace interval , the oil pump being upgraded at this time to the 98 pump.
As mentioned above I used a Buell Pro series exhaust system. There are no secrets here and no information being withheld. The heads have been milled "some" , the pistons are forged Wiseco , a 3" K&N filter w/ hand crafted air cleaner assembly , "Q" curve ignition module , thats it.
It still has the fat S2 flywheels and 29 tooth pulley too.
Yes theoretically what you say above can be achieved when done correctly , remember though exhaust plays a big role in this , ask AW .
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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 08:46 am: |
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Thanks for the info Hoser. I thought the newer tubers already had the bigger header, which would mean you could just add the supertrapp IDS, but I could be mistaken.
What advantages do you get with the upgraded pistons? Is it a reliability thing, or are they lighter or have a better combustion profile?
Sorry about all the newbie questions, I am just beginning to understand this stuff in detail. |
Hoser
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 09:21 am: |
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Reep:
Yes the late tube frame bikes have a 2.5" header , but there's primary tube lenght to consider , the pro series header has longer tubes.
A slip on will not get you the same results as a full system.
The pistons , were chosen because they were already in stock , they are forged so , more durable than cast, and have very generous valve pockets ( handy when using cams with large tdc lift numbers ) |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:20 am: |
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The results that Nallin Racing are getting with the 536's are amazing. Way better low end than I ever would have thought possible. Close to 80 FT-LBs of torque at 3,000 rpm, and better than 100RWHP at 6,800 rpm with their 1250 kit, head porting/valve job and a bigger carb.
Jeff,
You are reinforcing the Reepicheep mantra of "You would do well to check the oil pump drive gear." I'll be doing so soon. Have a '98 oil pump that wants to be installed along with a bunch of other track improvements to do. Thanks for your info! |
Aaron
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:22 am: |
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Yes, they work great ... plus they're reasonably priced in the world of XL cams and the modest lift and stock base circle means they don't need the extra expense of roller rockers, adjustable pushrods, or collapsible covers. They do need better springs, they're not a bolt-in.
One word of warning though ... although the advertised TDC lift figures are identical to the bolt-in Lightning cams, you would be well advised to measure actual TDC lifts and base your other clearances (valve to valve, valve to piston) on your measured numbers. You may be surprised by how wrong the specs are. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 03:25 pm: |
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Thanks for all the details Hoser!
Whats with the 98 oil pumps? Are the older ones better, or the newer ones? I thought they improved the oiling system in later (99 and up) years... |
Henrik
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 07:52 pm: |
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Was there something about a "two straws in two glasses" analogy when talking about the '98 oil pump?
Aaron?
Anyone know what changes were made later on? Anyone with late model tuber parts manual?
Henrik |
Hoser
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 08:19 pm: |
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The 98 model year was the updated oil pump , it has scavenge ( return ) gears .200" thicker and an additional scavenge port in the gearcase.
I don't have the information in front of me but I believe it was 2001 ( someone correct me if I'm wrong ) that the port timing was changed to further improve scavenging of oil , keeping more lubricant in the oil tank and out of the sump.
You may hear mixed opinions about the three oil pumps that have been available for 91 & up XL / Buell power trains , I may be wrong again but I seem to remember reading here that some engine builders don't like the latest pump ???. The first generation oil pump may even be obsolete now .
Zippers sells a high zoot oil pump too with multi stage scavenging from a choice of locations left to the engine builders discretion.
I'm out of here before the topic police bust me. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 07:46 pm: |
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Yeah...the new pumps have an additional return port for the gearcase, and the scavenge side looks much larger...compare the two side-by-side and the new one is quite a bit longer.
If anyone wants the trusty old oil pump...I have one... |
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