| Author | Message | ||
     Marcodesade |
After having the Jardine RT-5 on my bike for about 2 weeks, I installed the Pro-Tune 3, a tuning card that allows you to adjust the air-fuel mix without changing the stock map. List price on the PT3 is $310.00, but at the time I bought mine they had a special: $150.00 with purchase of the pipe. I do not know if that price is still available. Apparently I got one of the last units with an old software version. Installation was not that easy: my version connected to the O2 connectors, one of which was in a very awkward spot and the other of which was nowhere near where the instructions and my Buell manual said it would be!!! Also, at first, performance was horrible. It backfired repeatedly, acted like it was going to stall at acceleration, and kept lighting up the CEL with a REAR O2 SYSTEM ERROR code. At one point I considered calling a tow truck to get home. But I called Jardine, and Chris Neely, the unit's inventor, invited me to the shop to get the software update (I live about 15 minutes away). This part is irrelevant now, since Chris tells me ALL NEW UNITS HAVE THE NEW SOFTWARE AND DON'T NEED THE FLASH. They also don't use the 02 connections --- the part that caused me all the installation grief. My bike now runs like a monster. Low and midrange torque are noticeably stronger. Although I'm not certain my fuel economy has improved, it has stayed about the same --- and I'm catching myself running the bike harder and faster. So I do suspect I will see improvement when I settle back down. Although the bike pops a little on strong decel --- more like a pleasant, rhythmic gurgling, really --- the backfiring is gone. It sounds good, it runs great. And, as I noted in my review of the RT-5 pipe, I really like the looks of that product. So, for all the things I bought an aftermarket exhaust for --- performance, sound, and looks --- I'm really happy with the combination of the RT-5 and PT-3. I'm also extremely pleased with the customer service I received from Jardine. I would buy these products again in a second. | ||
| Hellgate |
Nice review, thanks. How's the low end throttle and surge? I had mine on a Factory Pro dyno with the "other guy's performance flash" and we had the same problems you mentioned. We stopped the dyno run because the flux numbers (power pulse relative difference) were so high, 280s. 90 is considered bad. We were concerned with the engine destroying itself. We flashed the ECU back to the stock setting and the bike now runs as before the performance flash. I've got the RT5 exhaust too. Thanks! | ||
| Marcodesade |
I did not get a dyno run, but my butt dyno says the throttle response is AWESOME. There is no surge at all. The change is that the new flash does not rely on the O2 sensors at all. If you are not opposed to giving it another try, I would definitely recommend calling Jardine and asking for Chris Neely. I don't know how they'll get you the flash if you're not local, but it is for sure worth it. | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
when i spoke to CHRIS NEELEY, i got the impression that he was serious about making it work...and was hoping they would work out the problems at low end... i'm glad they didn't give up on it...and are working with people to make it right. CHRIS is one of the good guys.. JARDINE has stood behind there stuff.. JT | ||
| Hellgate |
I didn't try the Jardine card but the O S B Performance Flash. I'll give them a buzz today, thanks again! I KNOW I can make this thing run correctly. | ||
| 1_mike |
Hell - You might want to give Dave a call also. He's more than willing to help with problems or concerns with his program. My CR runs very strong since buying and playing with his program. Mike | ||
| Hellgate |
Mike - Dave, my tuner and I have spoke a couple of times. We're both stumped. I've been out of the loop for the past three weeks so this week I'll pick up the tuning project again. The main problem is heat saturation of the fuel tank (145 degrees) and air box (134 degrees) when on the dyno. We may have to wait until the Fall and cooler times to resume testing. Yesterday 104, 100 today, no let up in sight... | ||
| 1_mike |
While I haven't had my CR on a dyno yet... One thing is mandatory when I do... A large fan, in front, one on each side pointing toward the rear of the bike. I've had two previous bikes on dynos. One shop had one of those 42" blade fans. Kinda like a wind tunnel..! This will keep the intake air, the coolant air and air surrounding the bike somewhat cool. I wouldn't chance damaging my engine for the lack of a shop fan or two either. Should be standard shop equipment. The inlet air and frame temperatures would have nothing to do with the computer program. Mike | ||
| Racerxusa |
Hi all, its been a while since posting, too busy working/riding and selling Buell's in this slow economy. Thanks for the write up Marco/Mark. Here is an attached dyno run(its SAE not dynojet or other since its low figures, this is not my bike but a different stock 09 1125CR for magazine with just exhaust and tuner card, mine has K&N and airbox lid remeoved,etc from the beginning)for comparison with Superstreetbike mag test article in next months mag i think. It works great with big difference down low/mid range and some top end like Mark said. They added an accelerator pump software/retune to mine first and I then tested it. (It felt like my MX bikes/2 stroke like-the faster you turn/accelerate the throttle the quicker the fuel jet spray is; now you get my drift!). I have had no problems from the first tune with Chris/Mark Dobeck tuning on first pro-tune 3 and Jardine have been great with me and should be commended for improving and working with me and all of the customers. Side note: Fuel economy went right up from 30 mpg AVG even when new and with original Pro tune 3(o2 sensors pigtailed with tune B4). I am now averaging 34-38+MPG and I ride hard/canyons with lots of throttle unless im cruising on HWY at 75 but mostly 90+....very hot weather 100+ at times! Regards, Rob Buell Specialist Skip Fordyce HD/Buell *Attached below from Chris Neely of Jardine/edited. From: cneely@jardineproducts.com To: supermotomx@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Chris the resistor is in for the 1125R and tuning ? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:13:17 -0700 Sorry I could not get to your call yesterday, not only did I have the Super Streetbike Mag shoot, but my phone died half way through the day. Also, you'll be happy to know the new tune created an extra 2-3 hp up top and more off-idle power by about 1-1.5hp!! Thanks again for your help. -Chris "Good Afternoon, Your bike is running as it were stock when you are in deceleration and cruising. So I am not sure what would attribute that AFV value. But yes, now that we are no longer clamping the O2 sensors, your cruising will take full advantage of the exhaust and air filter and put your MPG way up there. But fuel it when you need it. The O2 values are completely stock now, as to why something is skewed can possibly be the weather conditions. And our ProTune would have no effect whatsoever on the VSS sensor or display, as it is not even getting its power from the battery and no grounded near any of that equipment. And all the wires are loomed and heavily jacketed to prevent from any kind of abrasion. I will find out any new news from the magazine guys, as it will be centerfold of that issue. I do have the dyno runs of the new tune on the other bike. I have attached them for you. This is in SAE numbers and NOT dynojet, thus they are low, and I calibrated our dyno before so the readings will be slightly less than typical. But the gains are extraordinary. -Chris"  (Message edited by racerxusa on July 27, 2009) (Message edited by racerxusa on July 30, 2009) | ||
| Hellgate |
Oh we had fans, 4 X 48" pulling 25,000 QFPM and then two squirrel fans, one for each rad. The problem is ambient temp, 100+. The computer program isn't the issue, the fuel is vapor locking in the lines. Fresh "cool" gas makes all the difference vs. boiled gas. (Message edited by hellgate on July 27, 2009) | ||
| Socoken |
That dyno chart shows some great gains. It also makes me feel better about the low numbers my bike pulled on a superflow windyn. | ||
| Marcodesade |
Reading my original post, it seems I forgot to add a bit of critical information: what the PT3 actually DOES. It allows you to add (or, if necessary, remove) fuel from the mix in any of several scenarios, or "zones." The first zone is cruising, and Jardine advises against adding fuel beyond what is in the default program. Makes sense; I don't see where extra fuel is needed if I'm just puttering around. The next zone is acceleration; Chris suggested I consider adding a bit here one I get accustomed to the default setup. The third zone is WOT; I can see where I might want to put something here. The final zone he described (there are actually 2 others) is basically a sensitivity control for the WOT zone: how fast do you want it to respond? In fact, he showed me that, on hard acceleration, this zone can even a bit more fuel for about 1/3 second --- just long enough to avoid that lagging feeling. So far, I have used the default setup --- I think it bumps fuel by 0.5% in each of the zones. And even here, my bike runs better than it ever has. In another week or so I'll probably add another 0.5 or so to the acceleration zone and see what that does . . . | ||
| Socoken |
I have added over 10 percent in some areas of my map, and adding fuel, though not as much, in lower cruising RPMs helps smooth the bike out. A half percent doesnt seem like much to me, but maybe I am comparing apples to oranges here. If the ecm wants the bike to run at 14:1 or thereabouts, and it makes the best power at 13:1 or a little under, I would assume you would need to add 1/14 more fuel, or roughly 7 percent. | ||
| Slypiranna |
A half of one percent will not prove anything relevant to seat of the pants, let alone what can be replicated in real world datalogging. Wideband/feedback is hard to track @ this low of change given perfect conditions and throwing out the ecu's corrections that constantly change the end values. Socoken..IMHO...has posted good data...even if a little rich under certain conditions. Jardine's Card is based for use with their pipe, not to be mistaken for anything else. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Glad to see you posting again MM, you have definitely been there, done that, and I for one have taken much of what you say as very good info. Thanks much. Now, if you want to, what is your impression, so far, on this Pro tune 3 tuner? It does seem to be coming along fairly well and as you alluded to, or didn't, its (latest) incarnation just might adapt to other variables as intake opening up and other pipes. Whatcha think? Bob | ||
| Andros |
Hey Socoken, have you got the Protune3 card as well? | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
This is an excellent review of the Jardine pipe and Pro Tune 3. I am starting to lean toward this setup. Can anyone comment on the ground clearance with the Jardine pipe? I use my 1125R for track days and have had to change my mounting points on my full fairing as it was dragging...especially on the right side. | ||
| Marcodesade |
Sorry, let me correct my semantics: you can bump the fuel mix up (or down) in 0.5% INCREMENTS. I am not sure what the maximum adjustments are. | ||
| Socoken |
Andros, No I do not. I have the "other guys" software, which also allows me to play with the timing. I think adding timing also allows you to add a bit more fuel, which might explain why I have added so much. |
