| Author | Message | ||
     Treadmarks |
Was bored again.  Fans are sofasco 12v 7000 rpm 40 cfm units.  Blade pitch is steep enough to allow air to pass freely while the bike is moving.  Fans draw 0.39 amps each and are connected to the engine cooling fan.  Factory scoop is moved out 1" to catch more air while moving. (Message edited by treadmarks on November 07, 2007) | ||
| Tq_freak |
Awesome Idea, I really like it. Will be interesting to see the difference it makes on how often/long the big fan runs. Where did you find the fans at? (Message edited by tq_freak on November 07, 2007) | ||
| Khelton |
Pretty slick, Treadmarks...you come up with some good ideas... | ||
| Maximum |
Yeah, that is pretty creative Trademarks....I mean Treadmarks. | ||
| Bertotti |
The master of mods. Finally a pic Thanks! | ||
| Saltydog |
why not just use a bigger cooler from an 08? | ||
| Tq_freak |
no one has done the big cooler yet because of the new oil lines that come with it. I think the official release from the mother ship was "will not retro fit to older models" but that has never stopped anyone before. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Thanks guys. I have had these running on my softail for almost 3 years without a problem of any kind, and they get their fair share of rain and traffic duty. These are connected to a hayden solid state thermostat and set at 200 degrees on, and 190 off. They come on and off while sitting still in traffic, and the actual oil temp never gets over 210 degrees.  On the softail I am able to hide them in a chin faring and the only way you can tell they are there is when you hear the fans running.  | ||
| Chas1969 |
The only thing different would be to place fans on the other side of the cooler so the duct is open and fans suck/not push. Chas | ||
| Treadmarks |
I could only fit 30mm fans on the back due to the bracketry used to mount the cooler. The twin 60 mm fans move considerably more air than the 30mm units would. Fan life in the suck mode (behind the cooler) would surely have a shorter life due to the heat passing over the fan motors and radiant heat from the front cylinder head.. I am currently looking at several options for mounting a larger cooler with an automotive type fan behind it, that will handle the heat better. | ||
| Khelton |
You need to figure out a way to make these one off mods available to the rest of us. I know you don't have the time to do it yourself but I have seen more than one of your mods that I would buy immediately if available. | ||
| Hoon |
Very impressive,nicely carried out mods. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
here I was thinking that it was a plug in ice chest for keeping the twelvers cold. Nice mod. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Nice mod. How is the sound level of these fans compared to the engine cooling fan? | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
Have you done some real tests measuring oil temps, while moving, stationary, stationary with fans, etc? I'm concerned about resistance when the fans are not running. Those types are fans are designed (for heatsinks in amps, etc) purposely to have a high flow resistance while not running (so hot air can't be recirculated onto the heatsink as easily), where passive cooling is acheived by air moving sideways through the heatsink underneath the fan. I like the idea though :-) Maybe the oil cooler is almost redundant while the bike is moving, with plenty of air cooling the engine itself... in which case, this is a perfect mod! Interested to see some temp. comparisons. I'm sure you wouldn't have done it to all 3 bikes without some good success haha. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Have you done some real tests measuring oil temps, while moving, stationary, stationary with fans, etc? Nope. I did watch them cycle with the fan while the bike was on the table lift after the install. On the way home from work yesterday I got stuck in US1 traffic for about 20 minutes. Was 85 degrees out, probably a little more in traffic. I felt the fans cycle 3 times while sitting still. That is the most yet, for my Uly. I'm concerned about resistance when the fans are not running. Those types are fans are designed (for heatsinks in amps, etc) purposely to have a high flow resistance while not running (so hot air can't be recirculated onto the heatsink as easily), where passive cooling is acheived by air moving sideways through the heatsink underneath the fan. Sort of...The fan resembles the PC cooling fans we are all familiar with. These are not PC cooling fans. I chose these fans because here where I work, they are used as booster fans for cooling the extruders which operate between 450 and 600 degrees f. As booster fans, they are mounted below the extruder and allow the cool air to pass through them while the metal exhaust fans on top of the extruder are controlled by a PLC temp controller that runs them at the exact rpm to maintain a specific temp for the process by drawing air across the booster fans as they are the only source of cooler ambient air. When the temp controller fans can not keep up, the booster fans kick in to cool things down. Take a look at the second pic in this thread and you will notice that you can still see the oil cooler past the fan blades. It is this steep blade angle that allows the air to pass through with minimal resistance. Hope this helps splain things better. Nice mod. How is the sound level of these fans compared to the engine cooling fan? They are pretty loud, but not nearly as loud as the engine cooling fan. When all the fans are running together it sounds kinda stereoish.  If that makes sense. If you had these fans on your PC, I'm sure the noise would be way too loud. When I hooked them up to test them in the house they were pretty loud, as they flew across the kitchen table. You need to figure out a way to make these one off mods available to the rest of us. I know you don't have the time to do it yourself but I have seen more than one of your mods that I would buy immediately if available. Right now the medical device industry is in the shitter and I have no idea how much longer this gig will last. I cant believe I get paid so well for splaining things and solving problems here. I would much rather be building bike goodies as it is a passion for me. We will see how it goes, who knows whats around the corner. (Insert Disclaimer here) The Chiller mod is not a cure all for engine/oil temp management. While I am certain my temps are lower, there are still some drawbacks. The Buell plate type oil cooler does not allow air to travel through it with the same efficiency as the more expensive Jagg cooler. When the fans are running on my harley, the heat discharging from behind the oil cooler rivals the heat that comes out of the back of our engine cooling fan. I did purchase a more efficient Jagg cooler that is a 12 row 2 pass vertical mount that I am looking into installing. I am sure it will do a much better job of cooling the engine/oil than the factory cooler ever could. My main intention with installing the fans on this cooler, was to provide me with a back up cooling system in case of the notorious engine cooling fan failure. Hope this helps splain things. (Message edited by treadmarks on November 08, 2007) | ||
| Bake |
Would be interesting to have side by side test without the fans just to see what the temperature differences are. Looks good, great idea (Message edited by bake on November 08, 2007) | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Treadmarks, The turbulence caused by those extra rows and passes in the Jagg oil cooler will reduce oil pressure on the output side of the Jagg. Also the extra length will cause further drag on the oil which also means less oil pressure at the output of the Jagg. How much reduction in oil pressure can be calculated if you have access to an engineering fluids book and know the ID of the Jagg passages. I'll wager Buell engineers sized the stock oil cooler with the oil pressure the stock oil pump is rated for. Reducing oil pressure may not be a wise thing to do considering that you have the rest of the engine to lube and cool with that very same oil. The increased oil pressure provided by the 08' oil pump is most likely the reason they felt the oil cooler size could be increased. | ||
| Old_mil |
Elegant mod - but I've got the touratech oil cooler guard mounted on mine which would probably make fitting a couple of fans in there unworkable. I wonder if anyone has upgraded the stock engine cooling fan and/or added a second one. | ||
| Saltydog |
I looked at the 08 right next to a 06 at the dealer today, the 08 oil cooler is much larger and looks like it would be an easy swap...I just can't take the idea of more fans on the bike  .... unless its a radiator fan  | ||
| Treadmarks |
The turbulence caused by those extra rows and passes in the Jagg oil cooler will reduce oil pressure on the output side of the Jagg. Also the extra length will cause further drag on the oil which also means less oil pressure at the output of the Jagg. Good point EG.  Lemme do some digging. | ||
| Hughlysses |
When I hooked them up to test them in the house they were pretty loud, as they flew across the kitchen table. Man, that's awesome! We need video!  | ||
| Paul56 |
Keep in mind you want your oil temp to be at least 210 F to boil out water vapor that would otherwise condense and sludge up the oil. Oil temps below about 235 are safe for conventional oils and 250 for synthetics. The cooling effect on cyl head temp would be generally beneficial but probably not significant. I recall threads about home made oil temp probes inserted through the dipstick into the swingarm reservoir; the recorded temps seemed very reasonable, IIRC. Looks cool, though. | ||
| Thunderbox |
210 degrees is too cold. The oil needs to be at 230 to 240 to do it's job. You should consider changing the thermostatic device to increase the temp to at least 230. But nice job for sure. It's great food for thought. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Thanks for the temp recommendations guys. I will keep that in mind moving forward. EG: After talking with the engineering team here at work and a some of the tech support folks at the oil cooler manufacturers, it seems the engineering fluids book is pretty much out the window with respect to the newer plate type coolers. The data in the engineering fluids book pretty much covers the tube and fin designed coolers but plate, orifice regulated plate and plate with turbulators type coolers require bench flow analysis to measure the pressure drop. Our factory cooler is a vertical two pass 6 row cooler which travels up three plates on the first pass, then down the three remaining plates on the second pass. The only data I could acquire for a factory cooler is from the two pass H-D FLH cooler which is pretty much the same cooler, only horizontal. The H-D two pass cooler indicated a 2.6, 4.7 and 11.1 psi drop in pressure when subjected to 0.793, 1.321 and 2.642 gpm flow at 230 degrees f. The Jagg 10 row two pass cooler indicated a 1.1, 1.9 and 3.2 psi drop in pressure when subjected to the same flow numbers. Heat rejection (btu/h) was very close with both coolers. Basically, by installing the Jagg 10 row cooler in place of the stock cooler I would not really see a decrease in oil temperature but the lower pressure drop would result in higher oil pressure available to the engine. Additionally, the larger surface area of the Jagg 10 row cooler would allow the use of a larger more powerful fan which should then provide me with lower oil temps, and higher pressure/flow. I dunno man, all this mumbo jumbo is makin me dizzy. What do you think?? I am open to any suggestions. I already have the Jagg 10 row unit, and was considering trying out one of the new orifice regulated plate coolers offered by B&M. | ||
| Dentguy |
210 degrees is not too cold depending on where you measure it. It doesn't need to be over 210 in the swingarm or in the oil tank. It is much hotter in the top of the heads where the breathers are and inside the engine. Don't think that it is not getting the oil hot enough inside. Nice work Treadmarks. | ||
| Etennuly |
 All of the people that have been complaining about the fan noise and you find a way to make it acceptable, heck more than that, you have them wanting more fan noise! Congratulations! The power of the farkle is amazing! Really though, I think it is a great idea, especially for those in the high heat areas of the world where moving at speed doesn't cool things, but rather flows more heat. You are the farkle king!  | ||
| Bearddevil |
Treadmark - I'm working up to do the same mod on my STT, but I'm wondering where on the harness you tapped to connect the fans. It looks like I can either do some ridiculous squeezing to tap off the fan circuit near the fan connector, or go up to the fuse block and computer hookups. Anything showing where/how you wired yours in would be helpful. Thanks. (Message edited by bearddevil on September 25, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
This is an interesting idea, but I would think twice about experimenting with this mod. Looks to me like the fan housings are blocking around 50% of the incoming airflow and a significant portion of the cooler itself. So while beneficial at a stop or in parade mode, the effects on oil temp for lengthy high speed runs could be seriously problematic. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Most of this thread is a couple of years old. I'd like to know if Treads ever installed the Jagg. One thing comes to mind and that is how much drag is that on the battery at shutdown? I'd like to see that hooked up to come on when the bike goes into closed loop which would be at a lower temp than the Buell fan comes on. Then shut off when the bike is shut down. No reason to run it when the bike is shut off. But my hat is most assuredly off to Terry for his innovative brain and guts to just do it  |
