| Author |
Message |
    
Froggy
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 01:56 am: | 
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Yes my bad! |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 02:07 am: |
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Inaccurate service manual ($60)...
Inaccurate owners manual...
Stripped drain hole / swing arm.
Labor to install above.
heartache...
frustration...
emotional trauma...
That's what this is adding up to... |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 02:15 am: |
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STILL WRONG!!!
Just checked the 2009 owners manual on-line... sure enough... 26-29 Ft Lbs.
According to BADWEB postings its 12FtLbs
UNBELIEVABLE!
I wonder if 09 bikes are steel on steel like the original XB swingarms????
(Message edited by Buellnick on September 28, 2008) |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 11:17 am: |
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2006 Service Manual = 99494-06Y = 29-31 ft-lbs
2008 Service Manual = 99494-07Y = 26-29 ft-lbs
2008 Service Manual = 99490-08Y = 26-29 ft-lbs
2009 Service Manual = 99490-09Y = 26-29 ft-lbs |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 11:39 am: |
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Amazing...all wrong...and don't forget the owners manuals.
Maybe BMC should take a serious look at how they produce and proof manuals...
You know what they say about doing the same thing and expecting a different result...but on the other hand, maybe in a cynical way, BMC likes the result. It creates distrust of the manuals and gets people to bring the bikes into service for relatively simple maintenance.
I wonder, what other torque values are incorrect?
Here's a suggestion...create small decals with the correct torque value and put them on the swing arm just over the drain plug. Also send the decals out to dealers so they can put them on the floor stock. |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 03:04 pm: |
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"Seems Buell went from steel on steel to steel on aluminium and they didn't bother to tell their publishers of the obvious need to change torque values."
I'm asking out of ignorance, but when did Buell XB's have steel oil tanks???
I don't think the torque values are wrong, it seems more that there might be a problem with the threads in the swingarm. Putting less torque on the bolt may only hide the problem and could cause other issues. Torque settings (in this application) are used to allow the bolt (and female thread) to act as a spring with enough tension that it won't loosen. Too low of a torque setting will allow the bolt to loosen - especially with fluctuations in temperature.
For future oil changers please look at your threads in the swingarm and see if there's a problem there? |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 11:54 pm: |
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The newer swing arms are clearly aluminum and the steel drain bolt is eating them up if you try and apply the spec torque. Spec Torque values in he service manual are wrong. I've seen anything from 10 to 22 Ft Lbs stated throughout BADWEB based on local dealer techs. BMC continues to publish 26-29 FtLbs. I just hope BMC takes care of this issue - soon. |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 02:23 am: |
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So where does the 10 - 22 ft lbs spec come from? The BRC (Buell Rumor Club)?
Since Buell has been using steel bolts in aluminum threads for over a decade then why believe the BRC over BMC? Not saying it's not right, but look at what happened when people put GL5 oils in their bikes because they thought they were better engineers than BMC...
What is the root cause of failure? A high torque value (which isn't that high for that bolt size) or damaged female threads or something else?
Stripped threads can have multiple causes... I say more investigation is req'd rather than say the manuals wrong and make another GL5 mistake. Who wants to have the bolt fall out and spill oil on their tire because it wasn't torqued enough? Safety wire is a good containment plan, or perhaps loctite? But reduce the torque value on a bolt 'cause the BRC said so, I'm not so sure about that.
I'd be asking "why" a few more times yet.
Caveat emptor |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 02:28 am: |
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Its the swing arm end that is too weak. I have always tightened mine to snug, never had any issues with leaks or falling out. |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:52 am: |
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or perhaps loctite?
The manual does say to use loctite actually, though I think it's more to seal the threads than it is to keep the bolt in. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 02:05 am: |
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Issue Resolved... New swingarm under warranty. BMC took care of it.
The tech at the dealer said to tighten the oil drain plug 12-15 FtLbs. The manuals are wrong. |
Froglosopher
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2008 - 11:41 pm: |
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While removing the oil drain plug on My Ss it seemed rather stiff all the way out. Didn't think much of it until replacing it. It just wouldn't tighten up. So I pulled it back out, Guess what came out with it? 
So I ordered one of these.
Got the bike up to a comfortable working
height with my Harbor Freight trans jack.
Just checking if the insert was the correct one.
I'd have taken some during pictures, but the process was so simple and quick, it was over in about an hour and most of that time was spent making sure I got all the shavings out, So I added the oil, washed the bike, geared up and went for a "test ride"  everything seems to be working and holding. |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 01:01 am: |
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How about just snug enough with loctite to stop the oil leaking or the bolt falling out?
Sounds fair enough to me. |
Aptbldr
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 07:13 am: |
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Please, where is Forum's thread/topic to document known errors in published service and/or owner manuals?
Like this torque-range for oil drain plug. |
Bitbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 12:57 pm: |
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Froglosopher:
I have a related question: how did you secure your bike to the lift? It looks like you simply have a piece of plywood on top to provide a platform, then some sort of tie strap to hold it in place -- but it looks precarious.
I have a motorcycle/ATV lift and a new XB9S and I'm wondering how I can use the lift. Is the muffler strong enough to use the lift under it? I don't think there is enough clearance under the bike to slide my lift under. Did you have any clearance problem?
Any advice would be great! |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 01:07 pm: |
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The stock exhaust is designed to be a jacking point. There are small arrows on it pointing to where to have the jack placed. |
Froglosopher
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
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First off, the jack is a bit too tall to fit under the bike, so I stacked up some scrap lumber and rolled the bike up on it, which gave just enough clearance to get the jack under. I used a thick piece of carpet between the jack and muffler, not plywood. also the jack has a strap that goes from one side (I fed it over the top of the muffler) and connects to the other side which holds it in place. Then after I lifted the bike to the height I wanted, I used a couple tie down straps hanging from a beam in my garage down to the bike to help hold it up-right and stable. I had a friend help hold the bike while getting it in place. I've done this a couple time while removing the wheels and have never had a problem with it falling. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 01:16 pm: |
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Why go to all the trouble of fixing it yourself??
I pulled out a drain plug with shavings. When I put it back, it could not even hold 12 FtLbs. (The torque values in the books are wrong - they have been wrong for several years now)
The dealer fixed it under warranty. The solution... NEW SWING ARM. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 01:17 pm: |
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BTW: The muffler has jack points which are useful if you have a low profile jack... |
Froglosopher
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 01:34 pm: |
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Fixing it myself because, out of warranty, way cheaper and easier than new swingarm. Plus with carbon steel insert, no more worries about stripping it again. |
Akhunter
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
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Bought a used 04 XB12S from dealer. Supposed to be serviced prior to pickup. Rode it for about 100 miles, decided to go to synthetic oil in primary due to caveman shifting qualities. Plug was finger tight, loaded with sealant, backing out, I am sure, stripped treads for sure.
Bought a 1/2 x 20 NF tap, ran it in hole carefully, cleaned threads, ran a 1/2 x 20 , first oversize, self tapping, magnetic drain plug into hole, backed out, cleaned threads again, added new washer, replaced using thread sealant, filled with oil, perfect so far. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 12:42 pm: |
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Akhunter,
Obviously there was no way for you to know the condition of the drain plug. You fixed the problem. Just be careful with the torque on the plug.
The local dealer said 12-15 Lbs... (steel wins over aluminum every time) |
Nvr2old
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 07:27 pm: |
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Drain plug and o-ring are identical to those on the HD big twin motor. My '08 Electraglide service manual calls for 14-21 ft-lbs. I'll go with 15 on the Ulysses, should be fine. |
Aidan203
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 09:25 pm: |
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maybe they mean Nm. 30ft lbs is tight in aluminum with a steel plug. This happens alot on car oil pans and noticed only when plug was tightened with a ratchet. I use a wrench it kind of limits the tq. and is tight enough. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:36 pm: |
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12-15 is what the tech recommended.
At least they acknowledged it was a misprint in the manual and they replaced the swing arm. |
Spdrxb
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 09:45 am: |
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This is another concern for all those people using manuals.I work on aircraft for a living,the torque specs on certain things should never be questioned. So like a "good manual follower" i got the shop manual and torqued bolt to "spec'. Seemed a bit tight but who am i to question the book. After reading all the posts here i was a bit worried, so i looked at a torque chart and for that size bolt the torque is correct.So maybe swing arm is not thick enough for all threads of bolt? I pulled bolt out and threads seem to be still intact 4 now will torque lower from now on.Maybe manual writers are just going by bolt size not actual material used in thread engagement. |
996dl
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 10:02 pm: |
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Please note when ordering TimeSert solid core thread insert kits, to repair the XB's swingarm's stripped drain plug (1/2"-20)...
Don't order just a standard 1/2"-20 thread repair kit, as the supplied insert length is .650" and the wall thickness of the swingarm is only about .400"
TimeSert's site offers Drain Plug Kits and will show a 1/2"-20 sized kit for aluminum drain pans, where IMPORTANTLY the supplied inserts are custom sized to .400"
This is shorter than industry standard lengths and is PERFECT for the XB swingarm's wall thickness. Here's the correct TimeSert 1/2"-20 aluminium drain pan thread repair kit part# 0122A
It's the A added to the end of the part# that shows it's the shorter .400" insert kit, instead of the more standard length of .650"
Millwright friend, just finished using the #0122A kit on his new 09 XB12X and was impressed with it's quality and ease of installation !
996DL |
