| Author | Message | ||
     Jimduncan69 |
You'll find a way to use those "extra" inputs, with stuff you never realized you were missing. +1000 | ||
| Nyeguy |
57s, best allround mic ever! Got a 32 track digital studio in my basement. got more money in my basement than in my GARAGE! Been a semi pro musician most of my life! BTW Peavey has really upped their game in the last 5 or so years. Us old guys still have a stigma about peavey stuff from the old days! I have a couple of their guitar amps and are comparable with anything out there!(and i have/had em all!) Carvin makes some of the best P.A. stuff for the lowest cost out there!! Their guitars and amps are killer too!(gotta few of em too) Just my 2 cents! rawk out w/ ur cawk out! | ||
| Nyeguy |
Oh, and KING'S X is the best band youve never heard of!!! My favorite band of all time!!! | ||
| Xl1200r |
Rat - do those 1604's have phantom power? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Global phantom IIRC, yes. And I've run 57s on phantom-powered channels with no issues. Actually...most Shures work OK that way - 57s, 58s, Beta-whatevers...haven't popped one yet. You've gotta get into higher end desks if you want channel-specific phantom power. | ||
| Xl1200r |
From what I've read, and been told, is that most any dynamic mic made in the last 30 years should ignore phantom power with no issues. I'm blowing the budget on mics for this, so I'll have to work out with band on what to for a board - getting something we can all plug into might be the best way to go. | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
you would definitely be better off to just run the whole band thru one board. get a snake and a sound guy. running sound from the stage is like painting in the dark. | ||
| Hughlysses |
running sound from the stage is like painting in the dark. Amen to that, and I've been having to do it for ~15 years. Gary- I finally got the scoop from my daughter on mic'ing a kick drum: "Ok, so to do the three mic set up, you're going to have one inside the kick drum, you'll have one on the front, anywhere near the edge, right up against the head, and one on the back (where the drummer sits), right up against the head. On the mixing board, you must reverse the polarity of the one on the back, or it'll cancel out frequencies from the front. You want to use a large diaphragm mic on the inside; the other two can be small. " Let me know if you have questions and I'll ask her. Evidently the deal I saw with a small speaker being used as a microphone is not a standard setup but something some of the engineers like to play around with. | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
Hugh, thank you. that makes sense. i will have to try that. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I've seen that kind of thing mentioned on the internet. All of this stuff is so interesting to me - I went crazy trying to pick out the drumset based on shell sizes, wood types, etc, knowing that whatever heads I chose and how I tuned them would change the tone anyways. Now I'm trying to pick microphones knowing that what kind I get, where I put them, how many I use, what kind of board they're put through, how they're mixed and what PA setup is used all effects the final product. Like most things in music - if it sounds good, then it's a bonafide technique. If laying your cell phone inside the kick drum, and micing up another phone that's connected to it gives you the sound you're looking for, then who's to say you're doing it wrong. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Ahh, the universal SM57. I've got a couple that are older than some folks posting here! Still work great! Same goes for the SM58. The old joke for the 58's is that you can take them out of the bag, use them as a hammer to nail up your band's back drop banner then put them on a mic stand and go to work. The mic couldn't care less. I've got a couple of 58's that are over 20 years old. Still sound great for a voocal mic. The Beta 58's sure are nice sounding too. A bit less durable though, but that's is realitive.. I should have guessed that there would be so many "sound guys" here. I have NO doubt that that's where a lot of my hearing loss stems.. Too many rock bands, too many nights behind a board... but, I wouldn't trade those times for anything. All the race bikes and race cars probably didn't help either. I came to this thread a bit late, great info here. If I had to but together a drum system, I'd check out Mackie or Berringer. The Berringer used to be a complete piece of crap, all junk. But when Mackie got bought and a bunch of their talent moved to Berringer things got much better. They are not as "road worthy" as a some stuff out there but if you don't bounce them around by throwing them into the truck, dropping them etc. they hold up just fine. One thing not mentioned here is compressor limiters. They can really help on a drum kit and make things a lot easier to run. The price of them has really come down recently. Once you get them set, they don't take much futzing. Set and forget.. Mic choice is a lot like picking stereo speakers. If you like the sound then that's all that matters. One place not to skimp is the kick drum mic. Especially if you have it picking up inside or right in front of the front head (really important if you have a vent hole in the head). The sound pressure levels that are generated by even moderately hard playing are quite impressive. A 57 will do it for a while.... Better to pick up a kick drum mic and eq it and or compress/limit for the sound you want. The mic will last MUCH longer. I've always liked using condenser mics for overheads on the drums. However they can be a pain in louder settings. If you are recording or doing stuff like church bands, they are the way to go. I agree with what Jim and others said about toms and snare. Lots of great gear out there these days.. Let us know what you settle on. Brad One more thing, I know Jim and everyone else will agree. There is no such thing as too many channels on a board! You WILL find uses for them all +2. Some how thats the way it always goes.. (Message edited by bluzm2 on March 16, 2009) | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
Brad brought up a great point. a compressor is a really good thing to have. it will tighten and make your drums more punchy. at the same time it will help protect your speakers by taking out harmful spikes in sound level. a good kick drum mike and a 30 band eq "i prefer DBX" with a compressor. will make your kick sound monstrous! also who ever is buying the power amps for the P.A. tell them not to skimp on power. you can never have enough power. doesn't mean you have to be the loudest out there. but if you have the right amount of power it will allow the speakers to work to there potential at any volume you are running it at. on a side note. what your drums will sound like mic'ed. directly relates to how they are tuned and how they sound unmic'ed. a sound hole in your kick drum is crucial. the size and where it is placed also effects how it will sound. we have a saying about recording. "If you come in with $h!t you will leave with Sh!t". so make sure drums sound great to begin with. it will only make running live sound that much easier. | ||
| Ratbuell |
DAMMIT. This thread is making me miss that 'other life' I used to have....grrrrr....where's Ishai? I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in yet... | ||
| Xl1200r |
Gary - I keep on top of the tuning pretty regularly. In fact, I gotta work on my second rack tom - tone is right, but it's a bit dead sounding at the moment. One place not to skimp is the kick drum mic. This was the same conclusion I've come to - it's seems that this is possibly the most important mic in the setup. I ended up getting a Beta 52A for the kick, and three SM57's so far for the snare and toms. I'll be getting one more SM57 to mic up the whole kit. I think, if nothing else, these mics are pretty standard in the industry and will be a good starting point for me. I'm holding off on overheads for now - I'll let the vocal mics take that role for the time being. Only thing left is to dicuss board options with the band. | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
if i was buying one for my band i would either get a Allen & Heith or Soundcraft board. probably a 24 channel with 8 bus's on it. you can't go wrong with mackie either. but i like boards with the bus's kind of in the center. not off to the side like mackies do. but that is kind of nit pickin...lol | ||
| Slaughter |
I'm an UNsound engineer... does that count? | ||
| Court |
Best mics for a grand piano and how many? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Court, Live or recording? Room type.. My buddy used to have about 20 different mic's he used for setting up piano's. It really depends on the piano, the room and the sound you are looking for. Loaded question... not fair!! Brad | ||
| Xl1200r |
I just got my 4th SM57 off ebay, brand new, in the box, for $60 shipped. Sometimes it pays to stay up late... I'll let you all know how the mixer dicussion goes with the band after rehearsal tomorrow night. | ||
| Court |
Living room . . but, truthfully, at the level I am doing it . . . I suspect the SM57 will work fine. But it might be fun to try just to see what it sounds like. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Court - Check this link out http://tools.shure.com/flash/miclab/index.html It looks like SM57s would be fine (even ideal) for the job. Personally, I think a stereo pair over the strings sounds best, but it all depends on the sound you're going for. Sticking one in the sound hole seems to give that more "vintage" sound. Any piano performance I've done has always been live and totally acoustic, so all I can do is relay some info. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Court - 57s work great. I also had great luck using PZM zone mics on stands - one at the low end in from the foot, one over the high strings in from the side. But placement is usually the same either way - one lo, one hi, and depending on how full you want the sound I usually ran with the lid at half-stick. That way it isn't too reverb-y like it can be full-open, but it doesn't sound canned like it does when closed. 'course, I was usually working reinforcement with a Yamaha grand in a 1926-era 1200 seat vaudeville house... | ||
| Bluzm2 |
A set of condensers would work perfect. Lots of neat ways to set them up. One on top, one underneath. Both in under the hood, one for lows one for high. One under the hood, one out in the room for ambence. Both set away, side by side pointing toward the hood, separated by a small piece of Sonex. (simulates binaural sound) Great for headphone playback. TONS of variations, all sound different, all sound great if done right. You can make a smaller grand sound big or the other way around. Man, I'm having flashbacks! Cool.. Brad | ||
| Methed |
If you go the dual-57 route (or Beta 58's to pick up the minute highs and mechanics inside the piano) it's really fun to mix a piano in stereo--it makes you feel like you're right there when you play it back. The lows play to one channel, mids to both, highs to the other. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Well, I talked to my band member, and he didn't feel that I would need to mic more than the kick drum for where he sees us playing. I hope that's not the case. Still looking at mixers... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Then all you're going to hear is kick, snare echo, and hat sizzle. Unless you're playing a mens room and everyone's sitting on stage with him, it's gonna sound poopy. Hedge your bets - get a desk with enough inputs to cover the whole kit once he hears how it sounds with just the kick mic'd. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Yeah, I wasn't really sure where he thought we were going to play. I mean, we all set up in his living room for practices, and while it's loud, I can't imagine it filling up a much larger room unless all we're planning on doing is background music. Still confused on the board - if I get a board with 6 XLR inputs, and I eventually end up with a 7-mic setup (accounting for 2 overheads), will a transformer in one of the 1/4" line in jacks have it sound just as good (or real close) to the other XLRs? The guy at the music shop gave me that impression. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you use a converter (hiZ to loZ), you can get an XLR mic to *work* on a phono input. You lose headroom, though. *IF* you have to do that, I'd only do it on a cymbal or a snare - something hi/mid eq, so you're not noticing that lack of headroom as much. The price diff between a 6 and 12 and 16 channel desk is so minimal these days...as I noted above - there is no such thing as "too many channels". You'll use 'em if they're there, I guarantee it. The biggest pricing differences (I've found) are connected to the number/assignability of auxes - pre/post, switchable or dedicated, can they be fed into the main output or not, can they be used as discrete outputs (i.e. stage monitor outs or record-outs), that sort of thing. There is no such thing as too many features. If they're there, you'll find a way to use them. Maybe not in a way you thought of at purchase time....but they ARE useful in everyday gig use. You don't have to be at the professional level or playing big houses to get good use out of the desk features. | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
+1000 | ||
| Xl1200r |
What about this guy? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-MG166CX-16-Chan nel-Mixer-With-Compression-and-Effects-104501275-i 1322015.gc |
