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Socal
Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I design plastic injection molds for a living, and here at our plant we receive a publication called Plastics News. In an article titled “Magnesium molding gains ground globally”, there is a section within the article titled “New Horizons”. In this section it goes on to discuss companies grasping the metal/plastic molding in U.S.A., where predominantly it had been accepted only in Asian electronics industries. Anyways, in this section it mentions Buell on the foreground for adopting this technology. Here is the Buell related content, word for word:

“One envelope-pushing part on display [At the Toronto conference for Thixomolding] was a one-piece front module for Buell Motorcycles of East Troy, Wis. The part holds headlamps, the instrument panel, electrical components and fairing.”

Right-on Buell! That was an unexpected surprise as I was reading through . . . thought I’d share with fellow Buellers!
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Peter
Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Socal,
Is that stuff expensive? I think I know of one of those bits that needs replacing.....
PPiA
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Socal
Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is what expensive - the plastic injection molds? Yes, they are expensive - it only makes sense to make a mold if you plan on producing thousands or millions of parts. If you just need one part, you're better off buying it and replacing it, or if you need a custom part you're best bet is to machine one up.
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Peter
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Socal,
The part holds headlamps, the instrument panel, electrical components and fairing.
I'm wondering if the tricky stuff it's made of, makes that part expensive.
PPiA
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Thunderbolt
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm an engineer and most of the stuff I design is plastic injected molded. But, some of the stuff is also zinc die-cast, and in one application I was trying to lighten a big assembly that uses a zinc die-cast housing, and looked into mag thixomolding. The zinc die cast parts are about half as big as a carton of cigarettes. In zinc, they cost about $2 each, in mag they were going to cost about $7 each. To Socal's point, the tooling for the two parts is expensive, although less than typical injection molds, I think the tooling cost for those two parts was quoted at about $40k total. and, as far as that stuff being tricky, it's just magnesium. the tricky part is the processing, which was developed at MIT. they get the magnesium into a thixotropic state (semi-solid) then inject it into the mold. If I had to guess (haven't seen the part up close), I would say the tooling for the Buell part was on the order of $75k, and the piece price is probably in the neighborhood of $15.
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Socal
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Peter, like Thunderbolt mentioned, it's more the set-up and tooling that make the process expensive, not the material itself.

Thunderbolt, I would agree with your guestimate for the tooling, although I'm going off the mental image of a plastic injected tool, shutoff and typical cores and slide action being virtually the same anyways. The mag mold would be heated instead of cooled, and has to be sprayed with a release agent between every shot so the magnesium doesn't bond to the mold itself. The other expensive area would be the injection machine itself, of course!
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 03:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Boy you guys aren't even close on either piece price or tooling although I sure wish you were! Think much, much more...
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Peter
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anon,
Any idea what that bit retails at?
PPiA
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Jsunstar
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

hey, you plastic guys...
i need a piece of that slippery plastic to make a chain slider to keep the chain from digging the swingarm...i cant seem to find any. let me know if anyone knows where to get it.
thanks
Jason
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2002 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jason,

A piece of nylon cutting board works well, or so I hear. :)
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Thunderbolt
Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anon, Much, much more? Then I'd have to guess you're including some type of secondary ops. Out of the mold, that part shouldn't be much, much more than $15 (although, again, I haven't seen it up close). However, I do expect that there are some secondaries--tapping holes, etc. that could drive up the cost considerably. Jsunstar, the best material for that would be a PTFE filled acetal. go to the Dupont website, get to the plastics page, and ask them for a block of Delrin 500AF. You'll have to make up that you are looking at for an application, etc. but, they're usually pretty good about getting samples out. Then again, Blake's idea sounds easier.
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Ken_Nelson
Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jsunstar:

Let me know the dimensions you are after; length, width, thickness; I could mail you a scrap piece of delrin.

E-mail me with particulars.
Ken Nelson

'98 S3
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Jsunstar
Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 02:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ok fellas, thanks. i will try to get some of this delrin stuff...lets hope it works..
thanks for all of the advice....
ken, ill take you up on that, check your mail...
Jason
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thunderbolt,

Much much more for the part, and much much more for the tooling also.
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Socal
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So I was updating my S1 with the new style primary chain tensioner this weekend and as I was throwing away the old one - this thread popped into my mind. Jsunstar - you could use the shoe from an old tensioner and manipulate it to work for your needs - it was made to be in contact with a chain in the first place!
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Jsunstar
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i havent had time to make it yet but ken mailed me some pieces of delron and a couple of other types. im going to post some pics when i finish it. ill keep you posted.
i thought of using the chain tensioner. i figured a chain is a chain. what is the CT made from anyway?
JH
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Socal
Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmm . . that's a good question - I didn't study it for too long but it looks like it might be some kind of high density nylon or something to that effect.
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