| Author | Message | ||
     Imaposer2 |
Hello, Just joined the forum today and I know very little about Buells or even HD for that matter. I'm far from new to motorcycles though. I'll turn 48 soon and have been riding for over 35 years, so I am knowledgeable about motorcycles in general. But other than being attracted to the S1 back in the 90's I've never dealt with anything Buell or HD. But, then after having a couple of major events occur to me last year I've changed a few things and decided it was high time I buy myself a new toy. My last bike purchase was my '03 R1150GS and I still enjoy it a great deal. But, I've got an itch for something new. Wasn't sure what exactly though, so I started surfing and looking around. Then I found an ad for an S1 and thought, "hell yeah, I always did think those were cool, so why not?" So, I started looking around on the net for info about these bikes and have found a mixed bag ranging from owners that love them to the "worst bike ever built" stories. So, I decided to come here and snoop around a bit. I tend to be the anal type and normally research something to death before making a purchase, so I need to start somewhere just to more or less know what to be looking for when shopping for a clean example. My first question that prompted me to begin this thread is, how many miles can I expect before problems start popping up? I know that's a difficult one to answer, but I've seen bikes with what I would normally consider low miles (11,000 for example) that had new heads and pistons listed in the for sale ad. And then I've seen others with more that claimed the bike was perfect and needed nothing. The reason I'm asking is that I'm considering a rather nice looking '96 model with 20,000 miles. The owner says it needs nothing and runs great. But, I realized that I have no frame of reference for these bikes. Like, what is considered high mileage? I mean for most Japanese bikes I know that 20,000 miles isn't much reason for concern if the bike has been well kept and not abused. But, with these sportster engines being built up to such a high level of performance, relative to their HD counterpart, I wasn't sure what the general thought was on mileage. Would I be looking at a new top end soon? A bottom end? Transmission? What gives on these bikes and at what mileage can I expect to start tearing into things in a major way? Thanks for any advice or input anyone has to offer that could be of help for a complete Buell Noob trying to get off to a good start in finding a good bike. There's just something about these bikes that has always tickled my fancy and I really think I'd enjoy entering the fray, but I don't want to go in completely ignorant... | ||
| Azrael_cervale |
Welcome to the forum. I'd say 20k isn't high as long as the bike has been well maintained. I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable individuals will be along shortly to give a better answer on the S1. I ride an X1 at 10k with no internal engine issues whatsoever. They do like to shake themselves apart so you can expect some issues from that. I believe the S1's need a frame brace on the front added. This is generally an aftermarket bolt on bracket that mimics the support the later models had welded in. Good luck. It you can get comfortable on the bike it will be a blast to ride. | ||
| Eshardball |
Maintenance is critical with the engine as a stressed member. 20K is not big deal. Check condition of front & rear isolators, oil pump drive gear and know that the shock is prone to issues.Rear belt ran too tight walks the bearing out of mainshaft 5th.If its an older one, it will have a jingle rotor that should be replaced with something else. I have an S1, and S3, a Road King & two iron heads. The S1 is hands down, my favorite. These bikes have quirks but they pay back the owners wrenching time with an ear to ear grin when you ride them. Badweb will provide all the help that you can ask for along with entertaining commentary depending on your question | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Eshardball, thanks for the info. And I do have a couple more questions so the entertaining commentary will be fine.  Just remember, I haven't ANY experience with the HD engine design so, while I do all of my own maintenance on my other bikes I have no clue as to the architecture of these engines. So, anyway, here goes... I've been told about the isolators and that the rear ones are a pain. I was also told elsewhere that if the vibes didn't smooth out at around 3000rpm then it was an indication that the isolators were bad. Other than that though, is there anything else that can be ascertained about the condition of the isolators? Any visual inspection type of thing that I can look at when checking out a perspective bike? Also, I've heard of issues resulting with running the drive belt too tight, but how does one check this? I mean, when I'm looking at a bike, I can see if it is too tight at that time, which would probably be an indicator of how the PO ran it. But, what is the proper tension that should be run on these belts? And what is the general guideline for a quick and dirty tension check? The bike I'm looking at now has a recently installed EBC front rotor. Then, I would think that the oil pump drive gear is something that I would inspect once I've gotten my new (to me) bike home and giving it a thorough once over. But, again, I have no idea about the wear specs or tolerances on this part, or even where the hell it is for that matter!  I have a LOT to learn. Can you recommend a decent online resource for learning these engines? Any service manuals or good engine build guides or write-ups on other forums. I've been a member of advrider for quite a few years and have gotten spoiled to the huge volume of great write-ups and pictorials on various mechanical tasks and procedures. Is there anything like that where a noob can start learning the ins and outs of these engines? | ||
| 01x1buell |
well i think you are on the right site for any sort of help that you may need. | ||
| S1owner |
Well i purchased basiclly that same bike a 96 with 19000 on it i new 0 about bikes but have always liked buells mine was not taken care of very well so the basics that had to be done Front and rear isolators New gaskets all around New clutch Tires but i put 4000 on before i did any of it i chose to domine myself so i new the bike inside and out not to hard with all the help from this site Call the dealer with the vin there are several recalls that may not have been done so you might get alot for free or if he truely did take care of it they will say they have all been done Also get the service manual down loaded of this site and ask Court any other questions he is the teacher | ||
| Fahren |
Buell sevice manuals and parts books are great. The S1 shop manual was even made in pdf form. Excellent books. The EBC rotor is a + You can do all sorts of modifications to these bikes, but they are really nice as they come. The frame brace might be an issue for racing, but by no means necessary. There were all sorts of evolutionary moves through the '95-'02 "tube-framed years, like the frame modification, routing the exhaust tucked under the frame instead of over as it is on the S1; updating to front caliper in '98 (IIRC), etc. These are solid bikes, with well-documented issues that are usually taken care of by new owners, and in the course of regular maintenance. The best overall view of "issues" with these Buells is The X-1 Files, which was compiled by a member here, and although it leans toward the later X1's, it has just about all the issues covered. Worth perusing, to get a feel for the level of involvement you can take things to. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Ok, thanks for the input and info, guys. I'm doing some snooping and reading around this forum and just generally learning how to navigate and find things. It's set up quite a bit differently from other forums that I'm used to. S1owner, I've been reading a bit about the isolators, and I've just asked the owner of one bike I'm looking at about the condition and history of his. He is the second owner though so I'm not sure how much of the history he really knows, although he has supposedly had s few things done and had it thoroughly gone through by some guy that is supposed to be of some reputation in his area. So, hopefully the bike is sound and well cared for. As far as the VIN and calling to check on recalls... how dos that work since Buell is not longer in existence? Are the HD dealers that were once Buell dealers still able to access the records on the recalls? The bike I'm looking at is from out of state, so the dealer it came from isn't close to me. Even if they were though, is anyone still honoring the recalls that may not have been done yet? Just wondering how that all works. I've never bought a vehicle made by a defunct company before. Fahren, You mention the shop manual available in pdf. Do you know where that's available for download? And yeah, the rotor is one of the things that the current owner just had done recently. Thanks for the link to The X-1 Files. I may not have found it otherwise since I'm not really looking at an X1. One other thing... I keep seeing and reading things about the tank paint/logo bubbling. One of the bikes, a '96, I'm looking at is claimed to not have any bubbling and the close-up pictures the owner sent me shows that to be the case. But another bike, a '98 with lower mileage and for less money does have some bubbling of the logos on the tank. So, questions; what causes some to bubble and not others, and what, if anything, can be done to prevent recurrence if you have the tank repainted? | ||
| S1owner |
Any hd dealer can access the records and they still do the warrenty work also aaron on this site just bought one in rough shape and ended up with a new shock and several other parts | ||
| Ratbuell |
Paint bubbling was strictly a matter of prep, and some colors were worse than others. My white pearl S1W bubbled like a leper at about 2000 miles; my volcano gray '01 M2L has one small pimple near the filler cap and that's it; my old '99 molten orange M2 never bubbled in the 25k miles I owned it. The engine is a basic V-twin, with a common-pin crankshaft, 2 valves per cylinder, pushrod activation, and four cams driven off the crank snout. The oil pump is driven off a cam. It is a dry sump motor. The engine is connected to the transmission by a primary chain; one end (the engine end) of the primary gearset contains the stator and rotor, the other end has the clutch. You have two fluids - engine oil (pressurized), and primary/transmission lube (splash-lubed). Wet clutch. Trap door transmission - remove primary, remove clutch, remove four bolts, and the gearset is in your hands ready for rebuild or repair. I believe the official belt spec is "scary loose". At least, that's where I run mine. Grab the bottom of the belt and flex it upwards. I believe 1.5" of travel is about right, but someone can correct me. My S1W is in the garage, on the other side of 50 feet of armageddon thunderstorm right now...so I hesitate to go check  Yes, any HD dealership can access recall information. You need all 17 digits of the VIN, and it does not have to be the dealer the bike came from. One thing about HD, they do have a good service database. And if it's a safety recall, it's not HD's decision to support it - it's the NHTSA. But with an EBC on there now...ignore any front rotor recalls Before you go worrying about any upgrades...ride it. Set your suspension properly for your weight, front and rear. Get used to low RPM torque, and a low RPM redline. They're clanky, clunky, can be cranky...but they're always a hell of a lot of fun!! Think musclecar, not Ferrari, and you'll be just fine | ||
| S1owner |
The best phrase i have ever heard to descibe my bike Think muscle car not Ferrari I LOVE IT | ||
| Reepicheep |
For a tuber, the first 10k miles are probably worse than the next 20k miles. First 10k miles, you can pretty much count on both rocker box gaskets letting go, and your front exhaust isolator shredding. The replacement parts solve the problem. An M2, S2, or S3 is easier to ride distance than an S1, but only an S1 looks like an S1. It will be a bit of a hobby, but not nearly as bad as the hand wringers would have you believe. An XB9S is an under appreciated gem... just about indestructible, down on power, but boy are they fun to throw around. And you can even do light touring on them. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Ratbuell, Thanks for all of the additional info! I guess maybe I overstated my ignorance of the basic HD engine format. But, what you described is about the extent of my knowledge of the design. I still have much to learn to know my way around them in order to really be able to make repairs and inspections. Like the oil pump drive gear for example, I have no idea where to even find it, let alone what I'm looking for once I find it.  Scary loose. I can dig that. So, in regard to the paint issue, if I gather what you said correctly. If I've found a black '96 with no signs of bubbling, then it must have been done right and hopefully I won't have any issues at this point? Yeah, it's good to know that they are still honoring the recalls, but I guess, as you say, they have no choice on the NHTSA mandated safety stuff. I'll just have to check on the other updates like the oil pump drive gear, the primary adjuster, and so forth, to see what the PO already took care of and what I may still need to address right away. I definitely want to take care of those two issues right away since a failure of either can be catastrophic. I have been in further communication with the seller and he has a bunch of paperwork and a box of parts, so hopefully I can figure out what has been done and what might need to be done yet. He did say that the belt and isolators have been replaced once already though so perhaps I'd be good to go on that, but he did say that he would look at the isolators closely and let me know before I make the trip. And I'm not really planning on any upgrades. Hell, I'm almost 48 and while I still enjoy a spirited ride, I have a feeling that I'll be pretty happy with it just the way it is... for a while at least...  And yeah, I'm already used to a Ducati 900SS and my current main ride, an R1150GS, neither of which are really high RPM machines and both of which are a little quirky but also a lot of fun. And your analogy to the musclecar is exactly what has always attracted me to these bikes to begin with, so hopefully reality will match up to my desires in a bike of this type. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Oil pump is located on the lower right section, under the cam case. Cams rotate with the crankshaft; the oil pump is 90 degrees out, it rotates "flat", or level with the ground. Checking/pulling is not difficult, but lots of steps: 1. remove rockerboxes and rocker arms 2. Remove exhaust (the header will be in the way of step 5) 3. remove pushrods 4. remove timing cover (the round cover that says "S1 Lightning") and remove the cam (timing) sensor 5. remove right side (cam) cover, be careful you don't drop any cams! Then you can see the oil pump and gear. They're not difficult motors to work on, once you learn the geography. Hell...*I* can fix 'em, they aren't THAT complex!  | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Reepicheep, That's a comforting thought. Hopefully you're right and the original and current owners have taken care of some of the niggly things for me already during their ownership. And yeah, I hear ya on the distance thing. I remember way back when the S1 first came out I thought that I couldn't ride that thing because the seat looked like an ax blade that would split me ass to adam's apple. Oh well, I already have my long distance mount and I have no intention of getting rid of my GS. The S1 is more just a hotrod toy and you're right, there's just something about the look that's grabbed me since the first time I laid eyes on one. I do plan on a Corbin seat though, so hopefully I can at least make it tolerable. And yeah, I don't mind some owner involvement. If it were to be my only bike I'd probably feel differently and would probably not enjoy it too much, but as just one in the stable it won't make me too butt hurt if it needs attention. At least I'll have others to ride until I get it sorted, when and if it does lay down on me. And, ya know, originally, when I started thinking about a Buell recently, I was thinking XB12S. But then I stumbled upon an ad for a sweet looking S1 and that old lust came rushing back. Then the more I looked and thought about them both the more I became convinced that the S1 more fit the "musclecar" feel that I was looking for in a bike. It's just something raw and elemental about them... just two wheels and a big hunk of an engine. Just floats my boat. Know what I mean? | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Jiminy Cricket!! Sounds like a PITA chore to do when I first get a new bike home!  But, after reading about them and seeing pictures of sheared off teeth, I don't think I'd want to risk it. So, in regard to the oil pump drive gear, how do I know it has the "good" one as opposed to the "bad" one? What are the tell-tale signs that it is good to go? And, while you description is helpful, I definitely need a service manual before I start diving into the engine on these things. Where can a guy download the factory service manual in pdf format, or is it not available that way like the one I have for my GS? I'm actually looking forward to learning about these things and having something to tinker on a bit. I actually enjoy that aspect of motorcycling believe it or not. And once again, let me say thanks to all that have responded to my noob questions. This seems like a really cool place to hang out and learn about these machines and really helps allay some of my trepidation about buying one to start with.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Replacing the oil pump pinion gear is a bit of a chore, but inspecting it to see if it needs to be replaces is only 20 minutes more than an oil change. Just drop the oil pump (a couple of fittings and three bolts) and look up in there at the gear... blip the starter a few times to make sure you get a look at all sides of the gear, it will generally wear asymmetrically. Click on my name to the left of this post and look at my profile picture, that's what you will see when you look up into the hole the oil pump came out of. I replaced this one, though it probably would have gone a lot further, and it wasn't as bad as it looked. Like the primary tensioner shoe, the new parts pretty much solves the problem. | ||
| Buellfighter |
Enjoy that S1, Imaposer. 10 years on mine and still as much fun today as when I got it!!  | ||
| Desertfox |
In regards to the belt. If you can lean over the bike and pull up on the swingarm until the swingarm is aligned with the body (tightest belt point) there should still be some play. For my bike, this meant loosening the belt until the belt could be pushed up high enough to touch the swingarm. Something like 2-3 inches with the bike on it's stand. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I wouldn't own one, but I will *never* get tired of looking at an S1. | ||
| Jumbo_petite |
I've got 22K on my 98 S1W that had 4757 on it when I bought it. Outside of rear isolators at around 6k make and intake seals at the 20k mark, all I have hat to do is regular maintenance and tires, lots of tires hahahaha. I have 2 tube frame Buells and 1 XB all are great but the Tubers just seem to talk to me when I ride them. | ||
| Road_thing |
I've owned 3 different S-1's over the last 10-12 years, and they were all fun, but I finally got rid of them because of the discomfort. I'm too old for that stuff... But, mechanically speaking, I have to say I think they're great bikes: low maintenance because of the belt drive and hydraulic lifters, parts are easy to find, and they run like stomped tom-cats. I didn't have any unusual mechanical issues on any of mine, just rockerbox & starter gaskets, a starter relay, ignition switch, little stuff like that. rt | ||
| Ratbuell |
I still love my S1W. Half titanium from the waist down, not as flexible as I used to be, turning 40 this year...but still love it. The miles do tend to accumulate more slowly than on my Uly or CR, though, because those two have heated grips (I have that white-finger syndrome in the cold) and luggage for the daily commute / coffee mug / rain gear (no room for a tailbag on an S1W)...but now that the weather is warming up, I'm sure the S1W will start getting more use. I just need to find my messenger bag. Me - coffee = grumpy! | ||
| Fahren |
grumpy! Hold on...what's he got to do with it? :- ) | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Buellfighter, Man, that is an awesome looking bike!  The look of your bike is EXACTLY what's attracted me to the S1 since when they first debuted. I know yours is far from stock but it has that "look" of a bare bones, stripped down hotrod that appeals to me when I find most modern bikes rather bland on a visual level. I haven't actually bought one yet, although I have been in contact with a couple of owners that have theirs for sale. Just trying to learn a bit about them and their overall reliability before jumping in. In fact, seeing yours when I got back from my weekend trip may have been the final push that I needed to take the plunge. Do you have more pictures, and/or is there a build thread anywhere that details what all you've done to modify it? So, thanks for posting the pic of your bike and for the encouraging words in regard to your experience. Desertfox, Thanks for your description of checking belt tension. So, I take that there isn't so much a "spec" as it is just the general rule of thumb of making sure you keep it adjusted so it has a little slack when it's pulled to its tightest part of the suspension stroke. Simple enough.  I'm used to chains so I understand this principle after seeing WAY too many chains being run too tight. Reepicheep, You say that you "wouldn't own one". May I ask why? While I'm enjoying hearing from all the owners that have had good experiences, I still want to know the "truth" about what I can expect before I spend my money. I believe I'm a grown man and can make my decisions about what "issues" I find acceptable and what I don't. But, I need to know that whole story to be able to make an educated decision. So, if your thoughts are contrary to others here, I'd still like to hear them... Jumbo petite, Thanks for your reply. Stories like this is what I was hoping to hear... at least from some owners. It seems that the general "impression" of the tube frame Buells, from the motorcycle community at large, is less than favorable in terms of reliability. I'm not expecting it to be a Honda, either in fit/finish, reliability, or "blandness". And, I don't mind some tinkering time, as long as it isn't just a nightmare of spending more time wrenching that riding or being afraid to take it out of the garage to the point that it sits gathering dust while I ride one of my other bikes that I know I can trust. The only thing is, the one that I'm really interested in already has 20,000 miles, so, that's why I posted my original question here. I just wasn't sure what to expect from one at all, let alone one that already had a few miles on it. Road thing, That's one thing that I always worried about them back in the day, and one of the things that kept me away while the S1's were still being built. Then again, back in those days I only had one bike, so it had to satisfy more itches on its own. Now, I have my GS for when I need practicality and/or comfort. This frees me up to expect a little less from the S1 so I can just enjoy it for what it is... a cool looking hotrod toy.  And your record is adding to my "feel good" quotient for the day. Ratbuell, Pretty much what I said to Road thing above... I'll be 48 this year and while I don't have any medical "issues" that affect my comfort, I still understand what you mean. I'm not sure how tolerant I'll be of the Buell seat myself, but I'm hoping that my ass is tough enough to cope with a Corbin seat long enough to have some fun. I'll still be using my GS for my longer range rides and those times that I need the practicality of the top box and tank bag that's always on it, or the side case that go on in a snap anytime I need more capacity. Must admit though, that I have become pretty spoiled to the top box for just everyday riding. Must be something about getting older...  Thanks to all that have added to this thread and my Buell knowledge base.  | ||
| S1owner |
I ride an S1 have had 9 back surgeries l4-l5 area and i actually find the position on my s1 more comfortable then the upright weight of a cruiser on my back i can use my arms to help support my back! | ||
| Eshardball |
I had 1 back surgury and have 2 blown disks. I put a small riser on for tank clearance issues but the rider position can be varied greatly depending on your wishes. My bars are part of my top tree and are much more comfortable than the clip ons that were on it when I bought it. The original seat was designed by the Marqui de Sade and a call to Loren can make your S1 reasonably comfortable if you don't like the Corbin option | ||
| S1owner |
Ershard sounds like my bike same bars and i added 1 " risers to that for better positioning with a corbin! | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Eshardball, The bike I'm looking at has standard bars and luckily I don't have any back issues to begin with. But, I know that I can alway do a few things with bars, risers and such if need be. But I just know that the seat is going to me a major PITA, literally. I've looked into the Corbin option since that was the only one I knew was available. But you mentioned "Loren". What more can you tell me about that? Forgive my ignorance but I'm just now trying to get a handle on the whole Buell thing and have lots to learn. Thanks for any info or directions to other threads that may pertain to making these bikes more comfortable. | ||
| Eshardball |
Loren Mock of Baldwin Motorbike saddles is one of our members and I believe a sponsor although don't quote me on the latter. He does incredible work on transforming your leather covered 2 x 6 into a decent place to park your butt. I redid my seat with gel & memory foam which helped but am still locked into only one position. He will be redoing mine when the weather gets cold again. Try him at: Loren@motorbikesaddles.com 785-393-0594 | ||
| Desertfox |
I don't have an s1, I have an x1, but as far as reliability, it's fantastic. The only issues I ever had were more related to the previous owner neglecting certain items. 1. Battery was 10 years old 2. A wire broke to one of the fuel injectors, easy fix 3. Fuel pump regulator died, probably from fuel treatments. $30 fix 4. Ignition switch failed. Replaced it with a toggle I had on hand. 5. Rear Isolators were torn. Once I got in there, it was pretty simple to fix. 6. Front muffler mount kept falling off, made a new design, works great. 7. Cylinder base gasket started to leak. This is the only major issue as I do not have a true garage. I had to take it in to a dealership for this fix. And of course, when I first got it, everything that could be overfilled or overtightened, was. Very durable bike. I nearly flipped it doing a wheelie and it fell hard enough to crack the primary cover. I replaced what was broke and haven't had any issues from the fall. It's a Tuber, just not an S1. Maybe comparable? |
