| Author | Message | ||
     Lemonchili_x1 |
I'd like to do the maths on potential brake upgrades... Any one know how I could find out the weights of a ZTL2 caliper, a rotor, and a standard XB/1125 front wheel? cheers, chili | ||
| Phelan |
A lot less than your current setup  . Do it for the coolness factor. I know I am. | ||
| V74 |
i to would like to know the answer to this question as this is a mod that i am thinking of doing(when funds allow)and want to know how much unsprung weight i would save, | ||
| Fast1075 |
Completely unsubstantiated, but I read somewhere that it is seven pounds lighter than conventional setup... | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
The 7 pounds rings a bell with me too, but I've never seen the weight of a ZTL system compared to a specific model. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
when the Xb models came out in LATE 02 there was a Buell tech bulletin that I read that said the front brake system AND wheel saves 7 pounds. It was a very interesting article. I'm not 100% on this... but pretty damn sure, need to find the damn thing in my long list of Buell files.  | ||
| Phelan |
However much it is, it was enough for me to spawn this project- http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/494495.html?1254412926 | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Your project is looking pretty cool! I don't suppose you want to throw the XB wheel, rotor and caliper on some scales??? Found this on the current buell.com features for XB12R: Low Unsprung Weight * Zero Torsional Load (ZTL-2™) braking system. * Mounted to the wheel's perimeter, the 375 mm rotor with 4-pad, 8-piston caliper transfers braking forces directly to the rim instead of through the spokes. * Front-end weighs approximately 7 pounds less than most dual disc set-ups, which significantly reduces unsprung weight. * Buell Immediate Throttle Response™ system with innovative idler pulley. * The XB product line has the same Goodyear® Hibrex® final drive belt with Flexten® Plus technology that was developed for the 1125R®. * Benefits include improved wear and debris resistance, not to mention the fact that it weighs three or four pounds less than chains. * Clean, quiet, lightweight, no lubrication, no regular maintenance, and no scheduled replacement. * No adjustments and no driveline lash. I don't mean to sound like a skeptic, but I think Buell have been claiming 7 pounds for a long time now and you'd think the ZTL2 caliper would have to be heavier than a 6-piston ZTL? At the same time conventional setups have been getting lighter, but I've got no numbers yet to see if the gap is really any less than 7 pounds. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
i think the caliper, line and master cylinder weigh roughly the same as the tubers... i think the savings is in the wheel. but thats just my .02 I'll weigh all this stuff when i get m stuff together. | ||
| V74 |
just to help things along, battle2win issue 14:winter 2002 pages36/37 tuber- OE front rotor 4 lbs(mine was 1,834gm) OE front wheel 11 lbs 2oz, same issue page 27- "the XB,s front wheel weighs about eight pounds.That's three pounds less than the Castalloy wheel found on the other buells" so swapping front wheel and rotor should save close to 4 lbs of unsprung weight(i assume the XB rotor will be about a pound lighter???), | ||
| Phelan |
Notice the 7 pound instance they mention is compared to DUAL DISC setups. That would explain most of it. 8 lbs is a good number. The 1098S 10-spoke wheel I have weighs just over 7, but with the rotor and caliper would come out about the same and bot look as cool, so I'm glad I decided on the XB setup. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Cool, thanks guys. Is the 1098S wheel something special like a Marchesini? That does confirm what I suspected though, current wheels are probably closer to the same weight as a ZTL wheel than a few years ago. | ||
| Court |
7 pounds is HUGE when you are talking about front suspension. | ||
| Phelan |
1098S wheel is a $1500 forged aluminum wheel. I picked it up cheap on eBay because it was in need of repairs, but decided to use the ZTL Buell setup instead. The 1098S has dual discs and calipers, which in the end would be significantly heavier than the ZTL. My original plan was to modify the S wheel to hold a ztl rotor and run it for better asthetics, but decided it would be not-so effective (not a floating rotor like the XB setup). | ||
| Froggy |
I got a spare front wheel and rotor, no spare caliper, but I will try and get it weighed. | ||
| Froggy |
Oh, and the front rim weighs next to nothing. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Ok, I got some numbers, some pretty interesting numbers:  ZTL Wheel (from Fuell article, Jan/Feb 2003) 8.844 lbs ZTL Rotor (from Fuell article, Jan/Feb 2003) 3.563 lbs ZTL2 Caliper (with OEM pads) 4.25 lbs  2008/2009 Honda CBR1000RR (non-ABS) Front wheel (with bearings and bearing spacer) 3.7kg (8.2 lbs) Front Rotors 1.218kg(2.69 lbs) each (or 5.38 lbs for two) Front calipers (without pads) 0.709kg(1.56 lbs) each (or 3.12 lbs for two, without pads) Without the weight of the pads, or the axle or all the bolts, I don't have an exact figure, but I think it's safe to say that what was a 7 pound difference in 2003 is probably 3.5 lbs now - 2 lbs from the wheel and 1.4 lbs from the rotors compared to the "600 Supersport" measured in 2003, and the ZTL2 caliper is probably 0.5 lb or more heavier than a ZTL caliper. 8.2 lbs for the Honda OEM wheel is pretty impressive. (Message edited by lemonchili_x1 on October 14, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
What is your source? Besides the significant weight of the brake pads, you failed to note all the extra material in the caliper mounting bracket(s) (integral part of the fork lowers) and also the rotor carriers and as you mentioned the associated hardware for the Honda. I think it is too difficult to make any definitive conclusion. That said, even your 3.5 LB estimate remains very significant. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"I think it is too difficult to make any definitive conclusion." Agreed. It would be nice to get every single part, or a whole bike... I'm going to try and get the weight of the OEM pads from a local dealer though. I got the CBR figures from a UK Honda dealer who also have a Superstock 1000 team. Local dealer didn't have the parts. Honda MPE (Australia) couldn't help (but the people at their customer service department did try). I believe the rotor weight includes the carriers, but not the mounting bolts. I've sent an email asking for confirmation of that. Honda seem to have really worked hard on saving weight - eg the CBR1000RR rotors only have 6 buttons compared to 10 on the CBR600RR. The weight of the calipers is similar to weights I found on some Brembo racing calipers. I *think*, with a careful selection of aftermarket and OEM parts you could make up a dual rotor setup with 4-piston calipers that would be very close in weight to a ZTL2 setup. Cost will be the issue... With a carbon wheel you could definitely be lighter, but big $$$. Maybe I'm in the wrong profession... possibly I should have been a researcher of some sort  | ||
| Froggy |
Lemon, I didn't forget, all I got is an analog bathroom scale, and it seems like anything under 20lbs isn't enough to get it to read correctly. I was trying to aquire a postage scale.  | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
No worries Froggy | ||
| Blake |
I'm pretty sure that if Buell put some more time in on the front wheel, they could take a significant amount of mass out of it. If they did a forged version it would be even more. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I'm sure they could. Maybe there will be a ZTL3 one day? Just confirmed that yes, the CBR rotor weight does include the carrier (but not the bolts to secure it to the wheel). |
